Mainstream news/discussion: Russia's invasion of Ukraine

[Random Rooster]

It's about being lied to and revved up Randy. This is what we're up against. Think Sheeple ffs.

https://johnmenadue.com/war-propagan...ts-on-ukraine/

Nice deflect

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Random Rooster; Ok ok....nothing to see here hey. Here i was thinking it was baaaaaaaad news for Putin-but im just a sheepie.
So if Cavan Hogue waited a day for the " new light" that has been shed, he would have a different viewpoint? All that's happened in the last 24 hours is Putin is (predictably) back to talking tough. Id say he has a bit of paranoia regarding the possible uprising of other anti Kremlin factions within Russia


[B]"The fascists are losing this war - running out of trained manpower and materiel. The great counter offensive has floundered and failed." [/B]Says who??

* What "factions" might they be? He has 86% approval.
* Says who? Non msm sources like this one: https://thefederalist.com/2023/06/20...uld-have-been/
* Prigozhin launched his hopeless mutiny after the Defense Ministry had demanded that all his men sign contacts with the Russian army. That would have taken away the autonomy of his Wagner outlet and with it a large chunk of his profits. The run of his troops towards Moscow was a desperate attempt to get Putin's attention and to make him reverse the ministry's plans.
* As far as is known none of Wagner's military commanders and only a few thousand of its 25,000 troops had joined Prigozhin in his lunatic run. No one in Russia changed sides or supported him. When the Wagner troops entered Rostov on the Don the people who talked with his soldiers were critical of their presence. When Wagner were leaving without further bloodshed the people applauded. To interpret that as support for Prigozhin, as some 'western' analysts did, is false. The people were just happy that the whole stunt was over.
* This, like all US enterprises, is a propaganda war and you're balls deep man. Clearly not one of the 60% skeptical of MSM opinion.

[Random Rooster]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n1010370]

"The fascists are losing this war - running out of trained manpower and materiel. The great counter offensive has floundered and failed." [/B]Says who??

* What "factions" might they be? He has 86% approval.
* Says who? Non msm sources like this one: https://thefederalist.com/2023/06/20...uld-have-been/
* Prigozhin launched his hopeless mutiny after the Defense Ministry had demanded that all his men sign contacts with the Russian army. That would have taken away the autonomy of his Wagner outlet and with it a large chunk of his profits. The run of his troops towards Moscow was a desperate attempt to get Putin's attention and to make him reverse the ministry's plans.
* As far as is known none of Wagner's military commanders and only a few thousand of its 25,000 troops had joined Prigozhin in his lunatic run. No one in Russia changed sides or supported him. When the Wagner troops entered Rostov on the Don the people who talked with his soldiers were critical of their presence. When Wagner were leaving without further bloodshed the people applauded. To interpret that as support for Prigozhin, as some 'western' analysts did, is false. The people were just happy that the whole stunt was over.
* This, like all US enterprises, is a propaganda war and you're balls deep man. Clearly not one of the 60% skeptical of MSM opinion.

The Federalist? You cannot be serious? Total far right wing conservative spin-like total garbage- not too far behind Qanon.

Well if the rest of what you wrote is true then i expect the Wagner boosted Russian army to make short work of a Ukrainian army lacking in troops and ammunition. I guess we have to watch this space!!!

[ism22]

IMO the fact he's made this threat and told the truth about the reasoning behind the invasion (without calling it a 'special operation' or any of that sorta BS) with Vlad backtracking on his threat to kill everybody involved is pretty big.

It's a defining moment that only the MSM has been able to report (in a timely, accurate manner I might add).

[Paddo Colt 61]

Yes Randy, the Federalist is Right Wing which is precisely why I quoted it. Like Menadue, it can't be easily labelled Left propaganda. What, you think that the Right is promoting a defeatist line? As much as it loathes Biden, it wouldn't go that far surely.

[zac]

can't see the wagner leader making it out of belarus alive

[Paddo Colt 61]

Can't see Assange getting out alive either.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=ism22 IMO the fact he's made this threat and told the truth about the reasoning behind the invasion (without calling it a 'special operation' or any of that sorta BS) with Vlad backtracking on his threat to kill everybody involved is pretty big.
It's a defining moment [B]that only the MSM has been able to report [/B](in a timely, accurate manner I might add).

No Iz, it's US intelligence "reporting" it. The Western MSM are merely stenographers.

Surely you remember " Today's body count is 500, we're winning in Vietnam". Or "Afghan Government forces will be now able to take over" or " He has weapons of mass destruction".

The mystery is that people continue to believe and, like 'ol Jeckle, strongly believe at that - well they believe in a Sky Daddy so what can one expect?

I'll tell ya one thing , the Oz Right Wing MSM has done a comprehensive job on attitudes to China, 80% seeing it now as the bad guy despite all evidence to the contrary (which doesn't appear in our MSM). It means pretty much controls, not reflects, mass opinion. The interests of our rulers in this "free" society are in safe hands.

[zac]

No Iz, it's US intelligence "reporting" it. The Western MSM are merely stenographers.

Surely you remember " Today's body count is 500, we're winning in Vietnam". Or "Afghan Government forces will be now able to take over" or " He has weapons of mass destruction".

The mystery is that people continue to believe and, like 'ol Jeckle, strongly believe at that - well they believe in a Sky Daddy so what can one expect?

I'll tell ya one thing , the Oz Right Wing MSM has done a comprehensive job on attitudes to China, 80% seeing it now as the bad guy despite all evidence to the contrary (which doesn't appear in our MSM). It means pretty much controls, not reflects, mass opinion. The interests of our rulers in this "free" society are in safe hands.

no doubt the 'msm' which actually isn't a homogenous group but, okay, generalisations can be useful, don't always get it right, but you're not sceptical enough of russian and chinese reporting. have you read anything by the good humphrey mcqueen? used to be a maoist but now has to stop himself before he automatically asssumes everything out of china is right etc.
i have more sympathy for your arguments in favour of a nuanced position on china than your arguments in favour of the russian attack on ukraine. sure the 'msm' is biased, but putin is no hero

[Random Rooster]

can't see the wagner leader making it out of belarus alive

Prigozhins fighters were loyal to him. If he happens to have a unfortunate accident and is killed it may cause some discontent from those who were in the now liquidated Wagner Group. As with Alexei Navalny, it's in Putin's best interest to keep him alive. (In Navaluny's case, there's nothing like jailing your main political opponent forever!!)


Speaking of Putin, i watched live his addresses to the nation, glorifying his troops for "stopping a civil war".......hhhmmmmm

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=zac
i have more sympathy for your arguments in favour of a nuanced position on china than your arguments in favour of the russian attack on ukraine. sure the 'msm' is biased, but putin is no hero

Putting words in my mouth Zac. I've never mentioned Russian reporting(Don't read/speak Russian) nor have I ever said that Putin is a hero. My position is that the Russians have a valid case re US/NATO expansion that is NEVER covered in our MSM and the sources to which I refer are local for the most part and well credentialed at that. We've taken sides because we have a Right Wing establishment and we are a vassal state of the US, the most violent hegemon in history.

You and most people seem to think that "we" make decisions of national importance - the Sheeple! (LOL). It's your grandchildren's future that you are when risking when you defer to warmonger Murdoch and the "ning nongs" of our "security" services - the ones who persecute truth tellers. Are you blind to that?

* How would you know Randy? You're an MSM slave as well. He had 2000 "loyal" out of 25,000.

[Paddo Colt 61]

I might have been a bit pessimistic about Sheeple opinion. This piece gives slight cause for a little more optimism.

https://johnmenadue.com/propaganda-w...-not-want-war/

[Random Rooster]

Putting words in my mouth Zac. I've never mentioned Russian reporting(Don't read/speak Russian) nor have I ever said that Putin is a hero. My position is that the Russians have a valid case re US/NATO expansion that is NEVER covered in our MSM and the sources to which I refer are local for the most part and well credentialed at that. We've taken sides because we have a Right Wing establishment and we are a vassal state of the US, the most violent hegemon in history.

You and most people seem to think that "we" make decisions of national importance - the Sheeple! (LOL). It's your grandchildren's future that you are when risking when you defer to warmonger Murdoch and the "ning nongs" of our "security" services - the ones who persecute truth tellers. Are you blind to that?

* How would you know Randy? You're an MSM slave as well. He had 2000 "loyal" out of 25,000.

Still pushing the NATO expansion bs? All that's come out of the Ukraine "special operation" is Finland has joined NATO.

Fact - The increase in public and political support in Finland for joining NATO came after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Fact -Finland has an 830-mile border with Russia, meaning Russia's border with NATO more than doubles.

Fact- Putin responded by publicly declaring that military forces will significantly boosted on the border with Finland, which or course never happened because Putin knew it was unnecessary.

I dont need any media to tell me that Putin couldn't care less about Finland joining NATO because this isn't about NATO.

I think Putin invaded Ukraine to steal their land, resources , people and he was afraid of their democracy. What has Russia gained in the last 18 months by all this? How are the Russian people better off ?


Let me move on to Xi, who has never thrown China's support behind the Russian invasion nor provided any military assistance-just sat there neutral. He has sat back and watched the way this has unfolded, how the world has reacted and took the opportunity to buy cheap oil from Russia. In comes the news that the World Bank raised China's 2023 growth forecast to 5.6%. Xi knows how far he can push the boundaries and still deliver for China. As a leader he leaves Putin for dead

[ism22]

I think it's pretty darn obvious that our model of trade and governance has been infinitely more successful than that of Russia's.

Further... you don't attack a country and seize its land for your own exploit if you're 'defending' yourself.

[Paddo Colt 61]

* Finland has long standing enmity towards Russia as any small nation bordering a larger power normally has. It was not the decision of the Finnish Sheeple, it was that of a conservative government just as "our" commitment to AUKUS" was/is.

* The shining democracy in Ukraine is the result of a violent coup (US inspired) after which opposition parties and various media were banned/suppressed.

* 90%+ of world opinion doesn't see it your way nor does informed opinion in OZ. Our MSM does not inform it parrots and lies. Citing our right wing monopoly MSM is unconvincing to say the least.