Mainstream news/discussion: Russia's invasion of Ukraine

[zac]

Prigozhins fighters were loyal to him. If he happens to have a unfortunate accident and is killed it may cause some discontent from those who were in the now liquidated Wagner Group. As with Alexei Navalny, it's in Putin's best interest to keep him alive. (In Navaluny's case, there's nothing like jailing your main political opponent forever!!)


Speaking of Putin, i watched live his addresses to the nation, glorifying his troops for "stopping a civil war".......hhhmmmmm

maybe. he can't be killed because of those reasons and he can't not be killed because not killing him would fail to sanction desertion and rebellion. not easy being a strong man

[zac]

Putting words in my mouth Zac. I've never mentioned Russian reporting(Don't read/speak Russian) nor have I ever said that Putin is a hero. My position is that the Russians have a valid case re US/NATO expansion that is NEVER covered in our MSM and the sources to which I refer are local for the most part and well credentialed at that. We've taken sides because we have a Right Wing establishment and we are a vassal state of the US, the most violent hegemon in history.

You and most people seem to think that "we" make decisions of national importance - the Sheeple! (LOL). It's your grandchildren's future that you are when risking when you defer to warmonger Murdoch and the "ning nongs" of our "security" services - the ones who persecute truth tellers. Are you blind to that?

* How would you know Randy? You're an MSM slave as well. He had 2000 "loyal" out of 25,000.

fair enough - i haven't been following these discussions closely. my apologies.

while the west could have handled the break up of the soviet union better and so are culpable to a degree, putin should have just stayed out of ukraine. better for him, better for everybody. finland and sweden wouldn't have joined nato and ukraine wouldn't have been a serious contender to join.

but then you go on to put words in my mouth ...

[ism22]

Rumours swirl about fate of Russia's top generals who have not been seen in public since aborted mercenary mutiny

Russia's most senior generals have dropped out of public view following a failed mercenary mutiny aimed at toppling the top brass, amid a drive by President Vladimir Putin to reassert his authority and unconfirmed reports of at least one arrest.

Valery Gerasimov, Russia's top general, has not appeared in public or on state TV since the aborted mutiny on Saturday when mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin demanded he be handed over.

General Gerasimo has not been mentioned in a defence ministry press release since June 9 either.

Mr Prigozhin startled the world by leading an armed revolt on Saturday that brought his Wagner Group fighters from the Ukrainian border to within 200 kilometres of Moscow before he abruptly called off the uprising.

General Gerasimov, 67, is the commander of Russia's war in Ukraine, and the holder of one of Russia's three "nuclear briefcases," according to some Western military analysts.

Absent from view too is General Sergei Surovikin, nicknamed "General Armageddon" by the Russian press for his aggressive tactics in the Syrian conflict, who is deputy commander of Russian forces in Ukraine.

A New York Times report, based on a US intelligence briefing, said he had advance knowledge of the mutiny and that Russian authorities were checking if he was complicit.

The Kremlin played down the report, saying that there was and would be a lot of speculation and gossip.

Three US officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said General Surovikin was sympathetic to Mr Prigozhin's weekend rebellion, though it was unclear if he actively supported it.

As the rebellion began, General Surovikin publicly urged fighters of the Wagner private militia to give up their opposition to the military leadership and return to their bases.

The Russian-language version of the Moscow Times and a military blogger reported General Surovikin's arrest, while some other military correspondents who command large followings in Russia said he and other senior officers were being questioned about their possible role in the mutiny.

Reuters could not determine whether General Surovikin had been arrested.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-...tiny/102540086

[Random Rooster]

* Finland has long standing enmity towards Russia as any small nation bordering a larger power normally has. It was not the decision of the Finnish Sheeple, it was that of a conservative government just as "our" commitment to AUKUS" was/is.

* The shining democracy in Ukraine is the result of a violent coup (US inspired) after which opposition parties and various media were banned/suppressed.

* 90%+ of world opinion doesn't see it your way nor does informed opinion in OZ. Our MSM does not inform it parrots and lies. Citing our right wing monopoly MSM is unconvincing to say the least.

Right so after decades of neutrality Finland and Swedens governments find it necessary to speed up their entry in NATO after Russia's invasion of Ukraine- but its against the will of the majority of their citizens. I mean really???

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia was a mistake. I read Cavan Hugue's informed opinion on John Menadue so it must be true!

[Paddo Colt 61]

Oh Izzy. Reuters, the NY Times, The ABC? Wasn't so long ago (between 2014 and 2021) that all three reported on the Nazi presence in Ukraine, the insignia, the reverence for Jew baiter Stepan Bandera. Now nothing. Please spare us those sources.

[ism22]

Vladimir Putin faced an unprecedented challenge to his authority. What could his eventual end look like?

When Yevgeny Prigozhin challenged his leader and former friend, he fractured the hard edge of Vladimir Putin's power.

Now, with the Russian president having threatened the Wagner boss and notorious warlord with criminal charges, he is attempting to seal up that crack, but what is broken can rarely be whole again.

The mutiny was an unprecedented challenge to Putin's authority and the first sign those around him could be willing to turn on the Russian president.

The revolt provided a live and unfolding example of what happens when someone demands something of the "supreme commander-in-chief".

Ukraine, now entering its 17th month of defending its territory, watched as its invaders fought among themselves.

As the war grinds on and the traitor Prigozhin is allowed to live on in exile, the question must be asked: Is the chaos Vladimir Putin has created closing in on him?

Putin will eventually fall.

Kyle Wilson, former Australian diplomat in Moscow, Russia analyst and current visiting fellow at the Centre for European Studies at ANU, said ultimately, there were two options.

"He will either die in office because he amended the constitution, in effect to make him president for life, or he will be ousted while he's in office — one of those two things will happen," he said.

"What we cannot say is when that might happen."

Russian history provides a few clues as to how the president could be ousted from office and what conditions could lead to that end.

There are new dynamics at play, too, and the secretive, mafia-like state where "mistrust and deceit prevail and self-interest rules", could easily produce some surprises.

"Russia's political landscape has changed fundamentally, with Putin's uncontested reign over," leading Russia expert and former ambassador to Moscow Peter Tesch wrote for the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

"His hitherto unquestioned authority is compromised, perhaps fatally."

...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-...like/102546932

[Paddo Colt 61]

If you haven't heard of Seymour Hersh, google him. He's a celebrated American investigative journalist who won a Pulitzer Prize for breaking the My Lai atrocity story in 1969 among other things.

Recently he also broke the story of US culpability for the destruction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, a story that has been totally ignored by Western MSM.

I append his report on the disaster which is the current Ukraine counter offensive. It will make unsettling reading for those RWB Brothers who think, with the help of our MSM , that Russia is on the ropes.

https://johnmenadue.com/prigozhins-folly/

[King Salvo]

Well having just come back from Ukraine today there is no mindset of them being defeated. Sad to say that this War Russia started has a long way to go.

[King Salvo]

Right so after decades of neutrality Finland and Swedens governments find it necessary to speed up their entry in NATO after Russia's invasion of Ukraine- but its against the will of the majority of their citizens. I mean really???

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia was a mistake. I read Cavan Hugue's informed opinion on John Menadue so it must be true!

Comrade Paddo Colt's knowledge of History is rather sketchy to say the least and more than likely formed by his continual reading of swirls and deviations articles.

Finland was incorporated into the Russian Empire after the Swedish - Russia war ( 1808-1809) and was ruled by Russia from 1809 to 1917 - Gained independence from Russia in 1917.

Russia invaded Finland twice - Winter War - November 30 1939- March 12 1940 - Finland repelled the first invasion but not the second one.

They are well founded in their wariness of Russia's Intentions and well within their rights to apply to join NATO

[ism22]

Comrade Paddo Colt's knowledge of History is rather sketchy to say the least and more than likely formed by his continual reading of swirls and deviations articles.

Finland was incorporated into the Russian Empire after the Swedish - Russia war ( 1808-1809) and was ruled by Russia from 1809 to 1917 - Gained independence from Russia in 1917.

Russia invaded Finland twice - Winter War - November 30 1939- March 12 1940 - Finland repelled the first invasion but not the second one.

They are well founded in their wariness of Russia's Intentions and well within their rights to apply to join NATO

Remember, these are not his opinions and he has zero knowledge of history/geopolitics. He's acquired every little piece of parroted info from a weird cult that believes the world's blindly ignoring a new world order that's led by China after 'that experiment they called democracy has failed'.

99% of his cult's tactic is to confuse people by throwing a heap of obscure, revisionist historic stances out there for debate. Then... by the time you've corrected their version of events (which invariably favours Russia/China), he's already moved onto cutting and pasting his next set of FUD. This is all without apologising for being wrong about his last 20+ claims, appreciating that you 'got him' for quoting discredited sources or discontinuing the usage of false figures.

Thus, you can either keep chasing his tail. Or... block him because he's clearly not interested in anything except denying widely accepted historic facts and repeating his cult's opinion that democracy's failed and China is our new world leader.

[ism22]

Big day in mainstream news. Will summarise...

- There has been an explosion on Russia's 'Crimea Bridge'.

- Ukraine has recaptured territory near Bakhmut.

- Russia (which has been using cluster bombs the whole time) is feigning outrage about Ukraine using them against it.

(Sources: The Guardian and Sky News)

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=ism22;
".....Hot take from John Menadue: 'This is all just lies from the MSM... the CIA really controls Wagner group and is weaponising it to bring down Vlad just as he's about to capture Ukraine, which is rightfully his'
LOL... old mate looks so ridiculous now that all this is happening!

Please cite the article mentioned or is the comment just your airhead impression? Is the MSM still reprinting the US fantasy that the counter offensive is a success?

If readers want to get a clearer idea of the nationalistic (Fascist) currents that have existed for centuries in the Ukraine, look at the movie "Hatred" on YouTube. It is set in the Stepan Bandera period following the German invasion and is indicative of what happens when the Right Wing nationalists from the west of the country assume power. The same ethnic cleansing happened again after the US inspired coup installed the same lot in 2014.

While on the MSM, just imagine if Robodebt had been a Labor policy, or the NBN for that matter. The MSM coverage of Tory responsibility is mooted if not non existent. The Sheeple apparently unaware or uninterested tPleasehat a neocon society is not in their interests - we are becoming a place where poverty is almost a crime and where housing has been commodified to the point where shelter seems no longer to be a human right. We have our MSM to thank for this.

[Paddo Colt 61]

King Salvo; Well having just come back from Ukraine today there is no mindset of them being defeated. Sad to say that this War Russia started has a long way to go.

The "mindset" that you mention is whose exactly? The rellies that you stayed with faraway from the actual war? Anyone's far from the action? The remaining State controlled media (which is all that's left)? The egregiously lying Voice of America? I ask because, though remaining relatively steadfast, our own MSM seems to have lost its gung ho enthusiasm and here and abroad there appears to be some irritation with Ukraine's fascist government demanding more and more aid.

Albo's already kyboshed the prospect of sending more Bushmasters which were supposed to win the war weren't they? Aussie made after all. Those Chinks must be quaking in their boots. It's not just the willingness of your Anzac to be cannon fodder, though Rommel is often quoted as saying " If I had 10 Divisions of Aussies I could conquer ze vorld", it's our unquestioning willingness to do the bidding of Uncle Sam despite the result ALWAYS being a negative one.

Back here as a result of the war, the cost of living is rising with no end in sight and, with a wage breakout inevitable, there is worse to come - all down to the USA's mania for global hegemony and these two fools are cheering it on! It's a proxy war as is The Yemen and Syria. Blind Freddy can deduce that but then he can't read the MSM.

[Andrew Walker]

Wonderful to have you back and firing on all fours PC

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

Paddo do you think the US blew up the pipeline? There seems to be mounting evidence that they did.