The Uluṟu Statement Of The Heart

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Random Rooster;n1029796]

With every post he is basically confirming his status as the Chookpens resident village idiot. Thats about all you need to know because beyond that theres nothing.

Yep Randy, unforch The Rock needs to heed the aphorism " Keep quiet and let people assume that you are a goose or voice your opinions and leave no doubt.

* Andy. There is fear an loathing re The Voice because fear has been created by powerful interests for different reasons. The Murdoch media+ the Libs for purely political purposes, the Nats want to keep faith with our racist and ill educated rural folk and sundry Rightists for both of the above. It's a simple straightforward proposition, the rest is fear mongering pure and simple.

* As for some Aboriginal nay sayers please read:
https://johnmenadue.com/assimilation-re-emerges/

[mightyrooster]

Well I didn't know anything about the Malaysian situation. Showing my ignorance there. (and before you say anything Paddo I'll ask you to please shut up with your predictable MSM digs). If I read things correctly though, my opinion is that there is a difference between it and the proposed voice. The Article 153 is overtly stating that the Monarch must protect the special provisions of the Malays and even goes on to explain how this can be done, such as through the use of quotas and scholarships. Whereas our referendum is only asking for a Voice to be established to offer advice to parliament, no special protections or provisions to safeguard the indigenous 'special position'. Also, the Malays who are being safeguarded and assisted in 153 are in the majority. Whereas aborigines are clearly in the minority. No government is going to commit to major change at the suggestion of the Voice if they can be voted out at the next election by the majority, surely? I say all this at the risk of being fired upon. Be nice please.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Brava Rooster Mighty. That's what we need, a reasonable voice urging consideration of the facts of the matter as opposed to made up fear and loathing.

Henceforth let them argue on the facts and let's emphatically call out the misinformation they peddle like the Malaysian red herring.

[Andrew Walker]

Well I didn't know anything about the Malaysian situation. Showing my ignorance there. (and before you say anything Paddo I'll ask you to please shut up with your predictable MSM digs). If I read things correctly though, my opinion is that there is a difference between it and the proposed voice. The Article 153 is overtly stating that the Monarch must protect the special provisions of the Malays and even goes on to explain how this can be done, such as through the use of quotas and scholarships. Whereas our referendum is only asking for a Voice to be established to offer advice to parliament, no special protections or provisions to safeguard the indigenous 'special position'. Also, the Malays who are being safeguarded and assisted in 153 are in the majority. Whereas aborigines are clearly in the minority. No government is going to commit to major change at the suggestion of the Voice if they can be voted out at the next election by the majority, surely? I say all this at the risk of being fired upon. Be nice please.

More fool you or anyone else if you think a govt or opposition. won’t or hasn’t made a decision that will cause backlash at the next election. Our history is littered with them John Hewson and his 15 percent GST spring straight to mind Even funnier or more ironic with that, was I recall as that campaign went on how the media msm were opposing this turning the masses or the sheeple against it. In the process getting a left wing govt over the line

But you raise an interesting point MR as if the voice gets over the line the majority will have supported it. You do though realise that the way it is set up could see things go through that some people who voted yes don’t like.

I could tear this apart further but I consider it semantics

Finally I must congratulate PC in his response to myself in his post # 115 He just proved Jaxxxx 100 percent correct about him always reverting back to the evil Murdoch backed msm

[Random Rooster]

More fool you or anyone else if you think a govt or opposition. won’t or hasn’t made a decision that will cause backlash at the next election. Our history is littered with them John Hewson and his 15 percent GST spring straight to mind Even funnier or more ironic with that, was I recall as that campaign went on how the media msm were opposing this turning the masses or the sheeple against it. In the process getting a left wing govt over the line

But you raise an interesting point MR as if the voice gets over the line the majority will have supported it. You do though realise that the way it is set up could see things go through that some people who voted yes don’t like.

I think you'll find that John Hewson did a great job at stuffing it up himself!!

[Andrew Walker]

I think you'll find that John Hewson did a great job at stuffing it up himself!!

Are you disputing that msm turned against the Hewson and 15 percent GST ? Do not underestimate the power of the media. If they’d promoted that saying it was a good thing at the time the result may well have been different There are enough fools and imbeciles in this country who hang off every word they say one way or another.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Well I didn't know anything about the Malaysian situation. Showing my ignorance there. (and before you say anything Paddo I'll ask you to please shut up with your predictable MSM digs). If I read things correctly though, my opinion is that there is a difference between it and the proposed voice. The Article 153 is overtly stating that the Monarch must protect the special provisions of the Malays and even goes on to explain how this can be done, such as through the use of quotas and scholarships. Whereas our referendum is only asking for a Voice to be established to offer advice to parliament, no special protections or provisions to safeguard the indigenous 'special position'. Also, the Malays who are being safeguarded and assisted in 153 are in the majority. Whereas aborigines are clearly in the minority. No government is going to commit to major change at the suggestion of the Voice if they can be voted out at the next election by the majority, surely? I say all this at the risk of being fired upon. Be nice please.

MR, yes there are differences in the context and potential operation of the Malay example to the proposed Voice. I think the author would acknowledge that, however his overriding point is that enshrining any point of separation by race in a constitution, can end in tears for the country involved.

Just want to mention your point about aborigines being in the minority. (This actually emphasises why this wasn't a good idea Albo). There are supporters on both Yes and No sides from all backgrounds, cultures, race...including aborigines who also support either side. But they are all....Australians. So there is no minority or majority to identify in our case. Thats probably the main issue No voters have with this proposal...separation by race.

[mightyrooster]

More fool you or anyone else if you think a govt or opposition. won’t or hasn’t made a decision that will cause backlash at the next election. Our history is littered with them John Hewson and his 15 percent GST spring straight to mind Even funnier or more ironic with that, was I recall as that campaign went on how the media msm were opposing this turning the masses or the sheeple against it. In the process getting a left wing govt over the line

But you raise an interesting point MR as if the voice gets over the line the majority will have supported it. You do though realise that the way it is set up could see things go through that some people who voted yes don’t like.

I could tear this apart further but I consider it semantics

Finally I must congratulate PC in his response to myself in his post # 115 He just proved Jaxxxx 100 percent correct about him always reverting back to the evil Murdoch backed msm

My recollection on that was the majority chose to not vote for Hewson because they hated the idea of a GST and many still do no doubt. Howard brought it in 7 years later. Yes you are right, there will always be people opposed to government policies, even those that are enacted on the advice of The Voice. There are still many who don’t agree with the Same Sex Marriage Act and numerous other examples. It’s impossible to get 100% agreement on everything. If we needed that then nothing would ever get legislated. As you said everyone has a right to their opinion.

[Andrew Walker]

MR, yes there are differences in the context and potential operation of the Malay example to the proposed Voice. I think the author would acknowledge that, however his overriding point is that enshrining any point of separation by race in a constitution, can end in tears for the country involved.

Just want to mention your point about aborigines being in the minority. (This actually emphasises why this wasn't a good idea Albo). There are supporters on both Yes and No sides from all backgrounds, cultures, race...including aborigines who also support either side. But they are all....Australians. So there is no minority or majority to identify in our case. Thats probably the main issue No voters have with this proposal...separation by race.

It is actually very sad you even needed to explain all of this to people

[mightyrooster]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n1029804]

With every post he is basically confirming his status as the Chookpens resident village idiot. Thats about all you need to know because beyond that theres nothing.

Yep Randy, unforch The Rock needs to heed the aphorism " Keep quiet and let people assume that you are a goose or voice your opinions and leave no doubt.

* Andy. There is fear an loathing re The Voice because fear has been created by powerful interests for different reasons. The Murdoch media+ the Libs for purely political purposes, the Nats want to keep faith with our racist and ill educated rural folk and sundry Rightists for both of the above. It's a simple straightforward proposition, the rest is fear mongering pure and simple.

* As for some Aboriginal nay sayers please read:
https://johnmenadue.com/assimilation-re-emerges/

I do take umbrage with your generalisation of rural folk.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster;n1029819]

I do take umbrage with your generalisation of rural folk.

Yes, people like him who label rural folk as "racist and ill-educated" have never lived outside their urban confines.

[mightyrooster]

MR, yes there are differences in the context and potential operation of the Malay example to the proposed Voice. I think the author would acknowledge that, however his overriding point is that enshrining any point of separation by race in a constitution, can end in tears for the country involved.

Just want to mention your point about aborigines being in the minority. (This actually emphasises why this wasn't a good idea Albo). There are supporters on both Yes and No sides from all backgrounds, cultures, race...including aborigines who also support either side. But they are all....Australians. So there is no minority or majority to identify in our case. Thats probably the main issue No voters have with this proposal...separation by race.

Yes I agree it’s opening a can of worms enshrining a separation by race in the Constitution and is a major reason I have been grappling with this. But is that what the Voice is doing? I’m genuinely not sure and is why I am unsure. What I do know is the Aboriginal people are way behind in a range of basic health, education and social issues and I feel that is just so wrong and nothing really has changed for decades on that. Yes we are all Australians, from a range of different backgrounds and I love that about Australia, but I don’t think it’s right that there are gaps between and within certain groups. I want us as a nation to do something about that. Whether the voice us the answer, I’m really not 100% convinced myself, but we need to do something. Being in the minority they do get lost imo.

[mightyrooster]

It is actually very sad you even needed to explain all of this to people

Please don’t be sad Andy.

[Andrew Walker]

My recollection on that was the majority chose to not vote for Hewson because they hated the idea of a GST and many still do no doubt. Howard brought it in 7 years later. Yes you are right, there will always be people opposed to government policies, even those that are enacted on the advice of The Voice. There are still many who don’t agree with the Same Sex Marriage Act and numerous other examples. It’s impossible to get 100% agreement on everything. If we needed that then nothing would ever get legislated. As you said everyone has a right to their opinion.

My memory of that was it was the 15 percent that was seized on by the msm Many thought the GST was a good idea I was overseas when the next election came so not sure how they sided with it then

[mightyrooster]

My memory of that was it was the 15 percent that was seized on by the msm Many thought the GST was a good idea I was overseas when the next election came so not sure how they sided with it then

The media went after Hewson when he couldn’t answer a very technical question from Mike Willesee about how a birthday cake would be taxed under GST. He went on to lose the election and leadership of the Libs. Howard took over and won in 1996 and the GST was introduced in 2000.