The Uluṟu Statement Of The Heart

[Andrew Walker]

The media went after Hewson when he couldn’t answer a very technical question from Mike Willesee about how a birthday cake would be taxed under GST. He went on to lose the election and leadership of the Libs. Howard took over and won in 1996 and the GST was introduced in 2000.

I know the history and the 15 percent was also an issue. But as I was living overseas when the GST was voted in I’m unaware of the media’s position in the lead up to that election I do though remember being told upon my return to it was not opposed that time around

[Paddo Colt 61]

Yep, they have a right to an opinion but not one based on their own facts or on misinformation.

> How could anyone, apart from the rich, have thought that a flat tax was a good idea. Howard sold it by confusing the mug majority that the GST would replace other taxes. The mugs thought that that included PAYE income tax whereas business taxes were the real target. Our MSM (themselves big business did nothing to clarify the misconception just as News Ltd. our near MSM monopoly, does nothing to properly explain the Voice. Quite the opposite in fact.

The MSM did not campaign against a GST. It was sold as a tax we needed to solve our national taxation "emergency". You know the one which meant that the rich might have to pay a fair share. The patriotic meatheads bought it as usual.

[mightyrooster]

[QUOTE=Jacks Fur Coat;n1029821]

Yes, people like him who label rural folk as "racist and ill-educated" have never lived outside their urban confines.

People from rural Australia are another group pretty much forgotten and taken for granted by city folk

[Paddo Colt 61]

QUOTE=Jacks Fur Coat: People from rural Australia are another group pretty much forgotten and taken for granted by city folk.

Unfortunately we can't forget 'em, the whingeing never stops. And they are their own worst enemies. Where I am, any start up which, if supported, might employ their children is quickly branded "blow in". As a group they are a major drain on the taxpayer, stupidly loyal to the Nationals who represent the interests of the local grandees. Look at the grants for shooting clubs - as if the locals have a lazy 5 grand for a Winchester shot gun and as if we need more shooting enthusiasts anyway.

They're a feckless, conservative, feather bedded lot and a bottomless pit of taxpayer money and of ignorance as well.

[Andrew Walker]

Yep, they have a right to an opinion but not one based on their own facts or on misinformation.

> How could anyone, apart from the rich, have thought that a flat tax was a good idea. Howard sold it by confusing the mug majority that the GST would replace other taxes. The mugs thought that that included PAYE income tax whereas business taxes were the real target. Our MSM (themselves big business did nothing to clarify the misconception just as News Ltd. our near MSM monopoly, does nothing to properly explain the Voice. Quite the opposite in fact.

The MSM did not campaign against a GST. It was sold as a tax we needed to solve our national taxation "emergency". You know the one which meant that the rich might have to pay a fair share. The patriotic meatheads bought it as usual.

Oh Paddo The GST was campaigned against in 93 when it was tried to be implemented. The catalyst may well have been what MR mentioned RE Hewson and his inability to explain the birthday cake Personally I was voting against it before that But do not discount the msm support for a left wing govt then Probably something Rocky remembers when saying the media support the left

You though are speaking about the GST the second time around when it got in. Deliberately ignoring what happened the first time around. No surprise to hear it was supported by them when it did fall over the line. As I said I was living overseas then and tracked halfway across London to actually vote against it The travel would be akin from travelling from Bondi to Merrylands perhaps even beyond

[mightyrooster]

QUOTE=Jacks Fur Coat: People from rural Australia are another group pretty much forgotten and taken for granted by city folk.

Unfortunately we can't forget 'em, the whingeing never stops. And they are their own worst enemies. Where I am, any start up which, if supported, might employ their children is quickly branded "blow in". As a group they are a major drain on the taxpayer, stupidly loyal to the Nationals who represent the interests of the local grandees. Look at the grants for shooting clubs - as if the locals have a lazy 5 grand for a Winchester shot gun and as if we need more shooting enthusiasts anyway.

They're a feckless, conservative, feather bedded lot and a bottomless pit of taxpayer money and of ignorance as well.

Tell me what you really think next time!
Lots of rhetoric and hyperbole in there. Not to mention broad generalisations. I could make some similar generalisations about arrogant, urban, academic, idealists or bogan, westie, racist, boofheads but then that would be painting everyone with the same brush wouldn’t it?

[mightyrooster]

Yep, they have a right to an opinion but not one based on their own facts or on misinformation.

> How could anyone, apart from the rich, have thought that a flat tax was a good idea. Howard sold it by confusing the mug majority that the GST would replace other taxes. The mugs thought that that included PAYE income tax whereas business taxes were the real target. Our MSM (themselves big business did nothing to clarify the misconception just as News Ltd. our near MSM monopoly, does nothing to properly explain the Voice. Quite the opposite in fact.

The MSM did not campaign against a GST. It was sold as a tax we needed to solve our national taxation "emergency". You know the one which meant that the rich might have to pay a fair share. The patriotic meatheads bought it as usual.

The media did campaign against the GST in 93 as they were relentless in their attacks on Hewson for his major gaffe in that infamous interview where he couldn’t explain which part of the cake would attract GST and which wouldn’t and if he couldn’t explain his own policy how could he expect poor suburban (and rural country bumpkin!!) Mums and Dads to.

In the 1980s the MSM actually hated John Howard and attacked ‘little Johnny’ for the most part and were actually Hawke disciples from my recollection. By 2000, Howard was at the height of his popularity and of course they supported the GST by then. The majority of Australians though probably did not.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Wait a second, is that a faint Voice I can already hear:

* 3,278 Aboriginal Corporations
* 243 Native Title bodies
* 48 Land Councils
* 35 Regional Councils
* 122 + Aboriginal agencies
* 3 Advisory bodies
* 145 Health Organisations
* 11 Indigenous MPs
* 12 Culturally important Indigenous days

- Taxpayers give $33b annually for 984,000 people (3.8% of popn)
- Expenditure per person in 2012/13 was $43,449 on Indigenous Australians compared to $20,900 on other Australians. A ratio of 2:08 to 1.
* Australian taxpayers spend at least $100m per day on direct support for Indigenous Australians every year or $39.5b of direct Government expenditure every single year.

Source: Figures based on 2017 Indigenous Expenditure Report by the Productivity Commission.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Yes I agree it’s opening a can of worms enshrining a separation by race in the Constitution and is a major reason I have been grappling with this. But is that what the Voice is doing? I’m genuinely not sure and is why I am unsure. What I do know is the Aboriginal people are way behind in a range of basic health, education and social issues and I feel that is just so wrong and nothing really has changed for decades on that. Yes we are all Australians, from a range of different backgrounds and I love that about Australia, but I don’t think it’s right that there are gaps between and within certain groups. I want us as a nation to do something about that. Whether the voice us the answer, I’m really not 100% convinced myself, but we need to do something. Being in the minority they do get lost imo.

MR I agree that some (definitely not all) Aboriginal people are behind in the socio-economic areas you mention. You can see from an earlier post on the investments made and respectful acknowledgements included in our current society. This has helped many but not those in remote communities. The investments made are largely on the back of Governments taking advice and recommendations from the likes of Noel Pearson who currently heads the Yes campaign. (Noel himself is very well off these days ). Maybe its time to start listening to a younger generation like Jacinta who have a different take. She thinks making Aboriginal people 'victims' is the worst thing you can do. And despite all the $$ we haven't helped Aboriginal women specifically who endure arranged marriages with older men, and domestic violence and abuse. Here is an excerpt from questions taken following her brilliant speech:

In your speech you claimed, ‘Some Indigenous organisations want to demonise colonial settlement.’ Can I ask you, do you believe the history of colonisation has an impact on some Indigenous Australians?

Senator Price: Ah, no. I’ll be honest with you, no. I don’t think so. Positive impact? Absolutely! I mean, now we’ve got running water, we’ve go readily available food. I mean, everything that my grandfather had when he was growing up – cause he first saw white fellas in his early adolescence – we now have. Otherwise he would have had to live off the land, provide for his family, and all of those measures which Aboriginal Australians, many of us have the same opportunity as all other Australians in this country.

We certainly have one of the greatest systems around the world in terms of the democratic structures in comparison to other countries. It is why migrants flock to Australia to call Australia home because of the opportunity that exists for all Australians.

But if we keep telling Aboriginal people that they are victims we are effectively removing their agency. And then we’re giving them the expectation that someone else is responsible for their lives. That is the worst possible thing you can do to any human being – to tell them that they are a victim without agency. And that’s what I refuse to do.

Josh Butler: Just a quick follow-up. So you don’t believe there’s any negative, ongoing impacts of colonisation on indigenous Australians today? Just to confirm.

Senator Price: No. There’s no ongoing negative impacts of colonisation. What I will say, which I have suggested obviously within my speech is that particularly for my family in remote communities again who live very close to traditional culture and who experience the highest rates of violence in the country, family violence, interpersonal violence … they experience that not because of the effects of colonisation, but because it’s expected that young girls are married off to older husbands in arranged marriages.

We haven’t had a feminist movement for Aboriginal women because we’ve been expected to toe the line in Aboriginal activism for the rights of our race. But our rights as women have been second place. And I have the lived experience. My mother has the lived experience as someone who was subject to traditional custom and expected to become the second wife in an arranged marriage.

There are still people living this way. And yet those who have held the narrative because they have had an education and access to media ignore the plight of those in communities. And this can’t continue to go on.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Tell me what you really think next time!
Lots of rhetoric and hyperbole in there. Not to mention broad generalisations. I could make some similar generalisations about arrogant, urban, academic, idealists or bogan, westie, racist, boofheads but then that would be painting everyone with the same brush wouldn’t it?

He surely must be trolling? Even he's not that dumb.

Although it could be just another reminder that an education doesn't make you educated.

[zac]

Yes well this is why I have been toing and froing, which Paddo calls sitting on the fence. If it ends up being toothless then they are no better off and there’s a good chance that will happen.

it's toothless in the sense that it won't have the power to make laws but that doesn't mean it will be useless. the gap won't be closed over night, not for decades, but having a place where aborigines can debate about what they think is best for them can only help.
the other issue, a vote for constitutional recognition for the first australians in our constitution, an acknowledgment that they were here for tens of thousands of years is a reflection of historical reality and a good thing to do

[Andrew Walker]

it's toothless in the sense that it won't have the power to make laws but that doesn't mean it will be useless. the gap won't be closed over night, not for decades, but having a place where aborigines can debate about what they think is best for them can only help.
the other issue, a vote for constitutional recognition for the first australians in our constitution, an acknowledgment that they were here for tens of thousands of years is a reflection of historical reality and a good thing to do

Tokenism

[zac]

Tokenism

that's the argument of the lydia thorpes and it has more validity than the mundine/price no case. there's no guarantee the voice will close the gap but it can't help but hurt. blackfellas talking about what blackfellas need. sounds a good idea to me. it's not tokenism because this is what aborigines themselves called for. everyone knows we need constitutional recognition of aborigines but they didn't want that recognition to be mere tokenism and that's why they suggested the voice.

[Random Rooster]

Are you disputing that msm turned against the Hewson and 15 percent GST ? Do not underestimate the power of the media. If they’d promoted that saying it was a good thing at the time the result may well have been different There are enough fools and imbeciles in this country who hang off every word they say one way or another.

Absolutely i dont! Rupert Murdoch gave us Tony Abbott-in the biggest landslide ever. Sunday paper headline " Australia Needs Tony"with his damn arse head. Labor got it wrong when they called him "One term Tony"- he didnt even get to the next election. Then Murdoch went about smashing Malcolm Turnbull- someone old Rupert couldn't control....got him pushed and we nearly had Dildo Dutton but still ended up with " I dont hold a hose Scomo". Now he will do his best to unseat Albo but father time is catching up on the old crumpet.

I have met John Hewson a couple of times- at a party and at a school event. He is actually a decent guy - very down to earth. Truth is his team ran a very poor campaign. There was the interview with Mike Willesee, who asked Hewson some very straightforward questions on the GST, which a inexperienced Hewson totally butchered......and Paul Keating pounced in the weeks to come.

Perhaps Australia wasn't ready for the GST and Hewson was just a victim of being before his time. Interestingly Hewson is now very much left leaning

[Random Rooster]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster;n1029819]

I do take umbrage with your generalisation of rural folk.

Who mentioned rural anything??? I come across lots of idiots in Double Bay Village everyday!!