The Coming Federal Election.

[Rooster1908]

Why though as he is a contradiction as all Leftists still residing in the West are - They don't mind accumulating wealth but the Ideology they believe in - Marxist - Leninism is Anti Capitalist.

His anti west /capitalism diatribe is really just for show. - If for real he would leave the West.

I have no problem in him calling us Pro West Capitalist Sheepies as well all know who the real Sheepies are - Leftists

The thing is that communist countries like China are full of capitalist .Is just a matter of convenience to call themselves communist .Much could be said of old mate behaving in the same vein

[Random Rooster]

Why though as he is a contradiction as all Leftists still residing in the West are - They don't mind accumulating wealth but the Ideology they believe in - Marxist - Leninism is Anti Capitalist.

His anti west /capitalism diatribe is really just for show. - If for real he would leave the West.

I have no problem in him calling us Pro West Capitalist Sheepies as well all know who the real Sheepies are - Leftists

Those who are center-left still support capitalism. The way you're presenting it makes it seem like all left-leaning individuals are communists. If that were the case, would it be fair to assume that all right-leaning individuals hold extreme nationalist, xenophobic, homophobic, racist, religious fundamentalist, or other reactionary views? I mean it's the far right who have the strongest anti semitic beliefs

[mightyrooster]

Why though as he is a contradiction as all Leftists still residing in the West are - They don't mind accumulating wealth but the Ideology they believe in - Marxist - Leninism is Anti Capitalist.

His anti west /capitalism diatribe is really just for show. - If for real he would leave the West.

I have no problem in him calling us Pro West Capitalist Sheepies as well all know who the real Sheepies are - Leftists

I don’t get this argument that you can’t be leftist and a capitalist. Being left or right is about how the ‘capital’ so to speak is spent is it not? More spending on Defence and big corporations or small businesses or welfare or roads or immigration etc etc. We live in a capitalist country don’t we?

[mightyrooster]

Those who are center-left still support capitalism. The way you're presenting it makes it seem like all left-leaning individuals are communists. If that were the case, would it be fair to assume that all right-leaning individuals hold extreme nationalist, xenophobic, homophobic, racist, religious fundamentalist, or other reactionary views? I mean it's the far right who have the strongest anti semitic beliefs

Exactly. All right leaning must be fascists.

[mightyrooster]

It sounds like 'Handsome man' Anthony has it in the bag then ?

Nah, wouldn’t say that. Women are only half the population and not all will vote ALP.

[mightyrooster]

In both Lib's/Nats and Labor there are are right and left wing and centralists (centre left or centre right) factions

Unless one is in Pete's electorate then folk won't be voting for him - Nothing wrong with Pete

Not a great range of diverse discussions and views then if 99% have the same views on Politics though whether leftists or leftist learning.

mmm maybe these kids were influenced by their parents or brainwashed by leftists ideology

Not sure what you mean with the statement ' We all have to struggle to raise families including some kids with neurodivergence etc. managing work/family life balances etc" - Do you think only leftists have this problem?.

Mrs Salvo is a staunch Libs/Nats supporter who would never vote Labor as, despite being born and raised in the Soviet Union, she had more than enough of the Marxist - Leninism ideology which leftists believe in as it was literally forced upon them on a daily basis, whether on State Run TV, Propaganda Posters or in School plus University/College - never ending Anti West. Anti Capitalist , Anti US etc etc

The problem with leftists and leftist leaning folk in western countries as can be demonstrated on here is the contradiction - they see no problem is accumulating wealth under the Wests Capitalist System although the Marxism-Leninism ideology they believe in is Anti Capitalist.

Leftists want to have their cake and to eat it too which was aptly described in Pink Floyd's Money Song

Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash

Money, get back
I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack

Yes I know there’s left and right in both parties. Are you trying to say lefty Libs are also commies and right in the ALP are hardline conservatives?

Yes the chats are fairly one sided but we are always polite to each other.

There are plenty of people that claim neurodivergent and other such things is a woke concept. I have a child on the spectrum and trust me there’s nothing woke about it. Not all modern concepts should be dissed as woke and then dismantled like many conservatives would prefer to happen.

I have not influenced either of my kids. My daughter is intelligent and I wouldn’t dare tell her how to think or she puts me n my place. My son likewise.

[Paddo Colt 61]

The thing is that communist countries like China are full of capitalist .Is just a matter of convenience to call themselves communist .Much could be said of old mate behaving in the same vein

With respect 08, you don't have a clear idea re the CCP form of government. A capitalist economy is allowed to flourish but it has no political power. The Government is the CCP which strictly controls Capitalism in the interests of the people. China's success in lifting millions out of poverty is little mentioned in the Western media but it is unprecedented in human history.

In China the Party rules absolutely. The politburo is the Administrative branch elected by the Congress which, in turn, is elected by the 90 million members of the party. You can't just rock up and join the party, you need to be nominated and for that you need to have a proven record of community involvement and dedication to Party ideals. It means that all those numbskulls, who are universal really, don't get a say. Like here they're not that interested (according to surveys, 90% of us have no interest in politics).

But they're not cringing waiting for the knock on the door at midnight. Princeton University surveys of population satisfaction with government reveal that 96% of the population support the CCP and its governance.

[King Salvo]

Those who are center-left still support capitalism. The way you're presenting it makes it seem like all left-leaning individuals are communists. If that were the case, would it be fair to assume that all right-leaning individuals hold extreme nationalist, xenophobic, homophobic, racist, religious fundamentalist, or other reactionary views? I mean it's the far right who have the strongest anti semitic beliefs

You're confused between right-wing politics and nationalist right-wing political folk - the Nazis were National Socialists (Nationalists) - Anti-Communists and, of course, Anti-Capitalists as they saw Capitalism as having Jewish Origins.

Libs/Nats are neither anti-Jewish nor capitalism as well know and have seen.

The Leftists are always confused by their Marxist - Leninism beginnings.

All know that trade unions embraced Marxism as being the training ground for social revolution in uniting workers and their interests against the capitalists and their interests and later became Marxist-Leninist. Lenin saw the role of trade unions as "schools of communism" without turning trade unions into state institutions.

Trotsky wanted trade unions to be militarised and to turn them into an apparatus of the government and that the "Management" /Workers comprised of a majority of Communist Party leaders and members.

Don't think there is a trade union in the world that beginnings were not based on Marxism and later Marxist - Leninism principles and ideology.

After the creation of these trade unions, the workers wanted more political power and representation, which resulted in the formation of the Labor Movement Politics Wing Parties to be able to nominate candidates to contest relevant elections as "Labor" candidates. - All these Labor Parties were based on Marxism-Leninism Ideology - distribution of wealth /working class vs the Capitalists etc

Trade Unions still held their Marxist-Leninist views and ideologies - their Adversarial Stance on Negotiations with Employers as mentioned above - Marxism (social revolution in uniting workers and their interests against the capitalists and their interests) - strikes and what not, which require arbitration via the relevant territory/state/federal IRC (Industrial Relations Commission)

Of course, under Hawke and Keating the Labor Marxism-Leninism ideology was replaced by the Capitalist Ideology - free markets, globalisation, deregulation and privatisation etc. Hawke even sided with the Employers in the Pilots Strike.

Trade Union power was significantly watered down as a result of the wages accords and really has never recovered - Just over 13% (13.1%) of employees are members of a Trade Union according to ABS stats - August 2024,

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/la...latest-release

In reality anyone calling themselves a Leftist ( Marxists-Leninist ) in the west still nowadays are kidding themselves - They are as Karl Marx would call them " moyenne bourgeoisie" at least - Just admit to being a capitalist.

mmm maybe a new name for someone " moyenne bourgeoisie"

[King Salvo]

With respect 08, you don't have a clear idea re the CCP form of government. A capitalist economy is allowed to flourish but it has no political power. The Government is the CCP which strictly controls Capitalism in the interests of the people. China's success in lifting millions out of poverty is little mentioned in the Western media but it is unprecedented in human history.

In China the Party rules absolutely. The politburo is the Administrative branch elected by the Congress which, in turn, is elected by the 90 million members of the party. You can't just rock up and join the party, you need to be nominated and for that you need to have a proven record of community involvement and dedication to Party ideals. It means that all those numbskulls, who are universal really, don't get a say. Like here they're not that interested (according to surveys, 90% of us have no interest in politics).

But they're not cringing waiting for the knock on the door at midnight. Princeton University surveys of population satisfaction with government reveal that 96% of the population support the CCP and its governance.

Oh my you just explained so well why communism should never be an ideology for any Government in the West or anywhere - everything controlled and even the people lives by the commo's.

mmm that 96% again - a 13 year survey of 32,000 respondents conducted by the Ash Centre Chinese programs on behalf of a Chinese Government entity - they had trouble finding respondents that would give the Chinese Commo Government a favourable rating hence why it took them 13 years - I heard the Chinese Commo Government are still looking for the 4% that gave them an unfavourable rating.

You conveniently leave out

Nominations at all levels are controlled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and the CCP's supreme position is enshrined in the state constitution, meaning that the elections have little way of influencing politics.^[The CCP, through its control of the nomination process, ensures that around 70% of deputies to the people's congresses are party members. The top positions in the system are granted to senior CCP leaders, including the position of the NPCSC Chair , who has always been a member of the Politburo Steering Committee , and the NPCSC vice chair positions. Additionally, elections are not pluralistic as no opposition is allowed.

Tell us all why China doesn't allow any other Political Parties and Democratic Elections. Surely since you are living in the Democratic West with your accumulated wealth you would be against such a regime that would not allow free elections and a raft of democratic values - i.e Freedom of Speech / Freedom of the Press / Freedom of Religion/ Freedom of Association.

The CCP was founded on 1 July 1921 with the help of the Far Eastern Bureau of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) - Mao and Stalin were great Mates. - below the 2 despot Mates probably working out their next list of folk to eliminate and or send to one of the many Gulags- Yes China had Gulags too. mmm they called them Re-Education Camps and Still do -i.e Chinese Muslims in the Xinjiang region.

[mightyrooster]

Oh yeah!!! Does it ever.

Re women and the coming election, yes they have found their voices - The Teals are one result of that and I guess that our solid ALP government with its impressive female representation is another. It's an amazing turnaround from what prevailed in the past when often hubby decided the family political line and, courtesy of Packer's Womens Weekly, females admired Lib politicians. At the time it was because the Lib families presented in the magazine were prosperous and seemed nice people. Labor families never featured, and the perception was created in the magazine that ALP politicians were crude, rough hewn, dishonest, unattractive and generally undesirable.

A famous election ad in the 50s had an attractive young woman at the beach saying that she'd be voting for "Mr. Menzies because he has such a lovely speaking voice." Such was the level of female involvement which, when you think of it was not a lot more infantile than hubby's opinion, after all we had the same totally biased msm and working class blokes read the Tele, The Sun and the Mirror. The SMH was the choice of the bourgeoisie. It was easily spread out at home during a leisurely breakfast but not so easily in a train en route to the factory. Besides, it was written for Reading Age 12.5 years compared to the others' 10.4 years so was considered high brow and had little appeal to the average poorly educated worker.

All of that persists to this day but women are far more involved now, just look at female representation.

I think that’s all pretty accurate. It was a very patriarchal society back then in the late 40’s / 50’s / 60’s. I mean they (the men in charge) allowed pharmaceutical companies to run ad campaigns targeted specifically at women imploring them to buy Bex as it will help them be a good little wifey and have the house all spick and span. It didn’t matter that many women become addicted to them until a woman discovered the drug’s link to kidney disease in the 70s. Also, women weren’t supposed to read the papers back then, but it was their duty to make sure hubby got some peace and quiet while he read his.

[King Salvo]

I don’t get this argument that you can’t be leftist and a capitalist. Being left or right is about how the ‘capital’ so to speak is spent is it not? More spending on Defence and big corporations or small businesses or welfare or roads or immigration etc etc. We live in a capitalist country don’t we?

True Leftists believe in Marxist Ideology as described in Das Capital which later incorporated Leninism - hence Marxist - Leninist. Both were anti capitalists.

You cannot be both a leftists and capitalist though - both are polar opposites in their ideologies.

Marx would call the folk on here pretending to be leftists - moyenne bourgeoisie.

[Random Rooster]

True Leftists believe in Marxist Ideology as described in Das Capital which later incorporated Leninism - hence Marxist - Leninist. Both were anti capitalists.

You cannot be both a leftists and capitalist though - both are polar opposites in their ideologies.

Marx would call the folk on here pretending to be leftists - moyenne bourgeoisie.

No King, thats putting too much of a spin on it. "Leftist" is a broad term that includes many different ideologies, not just Marxism or Marxist-Leninism. Yes, Marxism and Leninism are anti-capitalist, yet there are other leftist ideologies that accept or work within capitalism, such as social democracy, market socialism, and left-liberalism.

Marxist terminology like moyenne bourgeoisie (middle bourgeoisie) refers to the middle class, which Marx saw as benefiting from capitalism but not as exploitative as the upper bourgeoisie. However, many leftists today don't strictly follow Marxist class definitions and may support capitalism with strong social protections.

So, while its true that Marxist-Leninists are anti-capitalist, it's not accurate to say that all leftists must be anti-capitalist. Many left-wing movements work within or alongside capitalism rather than opposing it entirely.

[mightyrooster]

True Leftists believe in Marxist Ideology as described in Das Capital which later incorporated Leninism - hence Marxist - Leninist. Both were anti capitalists.

You cannot be both a leftists and capitalist though - both are polar opposites in their ideologies.

Marx would call the folk on here pretending to be leftists - moyenne bourgeoisie.

Fair enough Salvo. I don’t really care what old Karl had to say though. To me, in the modern world the political spectrum in a capitalist society means left is more progressive and therefore more government spending of tax revenue on social outcomes and reforms. Whereas, right is more conservative, with less government spending on social outcomes and more slashing of the public service, and a greater emphasis on big business making profits to help the economy to grow.

[King Salvo]

Fair enough Salvo. I don’t really care what old Karl had to say though. To me, in the modern world the political spectrum in a capitalist society means left is more progressive and therefore more government spending of tax revenue on social outcomes and reforms. Whereas, right is more conservative, with less government spending on social outcomes and more slashing of the public service, and a greater emphasis on big business making profits to help the economy to grow.

The Left are not more progressive though- just a confused bunch of inbetweeners that ever so slowly are realising that capitalism is the far better option.

What are these social outcomes and reforms though that you speak off that the Libs/Nats spend less on ?

In the NSW PS the major restructures and job losses have occurred under Labor Governments - Unsworth/ Carr/ Iemma and now Minns.

In the Department of Education the job losses are increasing at an alarming rate with every so called "re-alignment",

The latest "re-alignment" is in ITD with 208 roles proposed to be deleted - Every " re-alignment" is to pay for the Techers Pay Rises - 1.8 billion budget cuts over 3 years.

Minns said it was fully funded though - plus he wants us to return to the office - Business Council and Property Council lobbied for this - Supposedly CBD business were losing money and Property office space vacancies were rising - Only PS employees go to cafe's/restaurants/shops etc and only PS Departments rent office space.

Ah yes Laboring on looking after the workers slash and cut style.

Well you want Big Businesses to make profits as more than likely your Super Fund invests in these Big Businesses so you get a cut of the dividends thus increasing your retirement super balance

[mightyrooster]

The Left are not more progressive though- just a confused bunch of inbetweeners that ever so slowly are realising that capitalism is the far better option.

What are these social outcomes and reforms though that you speak off that the Libs/Nats spend less on ?

In the NSW PS the major restructures and job losses have occurred under Labor Governments - Unsworth/ Carr/ Iemma and now Minns.

In the Department of Education the job losses are increasing at an alarming rate with every so called "re-alignment",

The latest "re-alignment" is in ITD with 208 roles proposed to be deleted - Every " re-alignment" is to pay for the Techers Pay Rises - 1.8 billion budget cuts over 3 years.

Minns said it was fully funded though - plus he wants us to return to the office - Business Council and Property Council lobbied for this - Supposedly CBD business were losing money and Property office space vacancies were rising - Only PS employees go to cafe's/restaurants/shops etc and only PS Departments rent office space.

Ah yes Laboring on looking after the workers slash and cut style.

Well you want Big Businesses to make profits as more than likely your Super Fund invests in these Big Businesses so you get a cut of the dividends thus increasing your retirement super balance

Yeah that’s right Salvo. I’m anti capitalist. You’re on to me.
And the times I’ve voted Liberal Party was just a pure accident. Why don’t we just have 5 right wing parties with identical ideologies and forget about elections altogether? Just rotate them every 3 years. It’s a capitalist country after all and all parties should be indistinguishable from one another.