Blabbotts NBN a $30 billion lemon.

[stsae]

I'm not going to argue that the FTTN is superior to FTTP in performance, no one is that stupid.

What I am questioning is whether it's worth paying all this money to build the infrastructure for homes that wont even fully utilise its capabilities.

Most Australians wont be able to pay for plans that support simultaneous downloading and streaming of 3D movies like you suggest. Their internet would be shaped after a week or two and they'd be back to using dial up speeds.

I understand businesses who have legitimate claims to needing the download and more importantly superior uploading speeds but there's nothing saying they can't pay the couple of thousand it'll cost to get Fiber to the premises.

I'm honestly not fussed either way, both have their pros and cons but this thought process that FTTN will be totally useless is flawed. For most Australians it will be ridiculously more than adequate.

You're still yet to convince me that the majority of Australia needs FTTP.

When did I ever say no one will ever need those speeds? You're worse than Rothfield, you've continually tried to discredit me and made up absolute bullshit without backing it up. How about an actual quote now where I said no one will ever need those speeds...

If anything it makes a liar out of your who said we will have the best Internet infrastructure in the world.

I don't get the point of your argument R6.

You said why build the infrastructure that people won't even fully utilise, which I read as being no one will ever need those speeds in the future.

The building of the infrastructure is for the future, isn't it???

And the infrastructure delivers speed right???

[Rooster_6]

Well according to Teabags R6 isn't a fan of The Baloney Man and a massive fan of Bwaiff so I guess we need to send him to OPSM to get that short sighted ness corrected.

R6 will love that one.

6 you must admit it would be shortsighted to downsize the scale of such a project just cos we may save a few bucks???

Sure we don't need those speeds NOW but how often in the past have governments failed to plan or planned to fail???

As I've stated it's not political for me, I hate all the carnts equally, but logic tells me this Internet thingy won't be going away in the near future.

I'm not convinced it's a long term solution though...

1. By the time it's completed (they say 2021 but we all know you can add a few years on that) it wont be the best in the world. We've only just started to uncover the power of fibre cables, Sony have already proven that and we've got another 8 years till the NBN will be completed.

2. We'll be stuck with it AT LEAST until 2034 (when the Government's investment will be fully paid back).

Turnbull's proposal is kind of a stepping stone solution and a bit of a stop gap, having the fibre end at the end of your street doesn't mean that you or your business can't pay to have it extended to your house and it also doesn't mean that in the future we can't extended it to all houses in Australia.

I'm just not sold on either argument, for or against. I'm interested to hear why people think we need the ridiculous speeds Gillard's proposal will provide us but have to say Chook has left me pretty underwhelmed. Being able to order groceries on your fridge, turn on your air con remotely or record a TV show from your phone are all things that we can do with the current networks available (3G & ADSL).

Things like innovation, Virtual Reality, educational purposes and medical advantages interest me more than whether someone can watch numerous 3D media content at one time.

There's no doubt we need faster Internet in the future, Gillard's solution is a long term one... Turnbull's is pretty short sighted no doubts about that. But given we're only just starting to unearth fibre and its possibilities is locking into a long term solution really the right answer now?

I get what you're saying and your logic is solid, but I'm just not convinced it's as simple as that. Each to their own.

[stsae]

I honestly don't see the point in being shortsighted.

Most governments try to play the short sighted game as you said, but it's rare for them to look long term.

IMO looking at this without any political leaning I think Gillard, or whoever came up with the longer term solution, deserves credit in this case.

[Rooster_6]

I don't get the point of your argument R6.

You said why build the infrastructure that people won't even fully utilise, which I read as being no one will ever need those speeds in the future.

The building of the infrastructure is for the future, isn't it???

And the infrastructure delivers speed right???

That's not saying no one will ever need those speeds though, that's saying they're not needed now and not for the foreseeable future by the majority of Australian's imo.

Abbott's/Tunrbull's proposal will be needed to be upgraded at some point, whether that's to what Gillard's proposes or whether it's new technology is the only question.

My argument is FTTN is more than adequate for the foreseeable future (next 10 years), those who do genuinely need FTTP will pay for it, those who are smart enough will write it off as a business expense. There's nothing to suggest FTTP is needed in next 10 years, when the demand is there for it there's nothing stopping the Government from extending the cables from the node to the premises or if the technology is available build superior infrastructure. I know I'm sort of repeating myself but it is essentially a stop gap solution until we know the limitations of fibre networks.

15 billion is a lot of money to commit to something that may be outdated before it's even completed.

[stsae]

That's not saying no one will ever need those speeds though, that's saying they're not needed now and not for the foreseeable future by the majority of Australian's imo.

Abbott's/Tunrbull's proposal will be needed to be upgraded at some point, whether that's to what Gillard's proposes or whether it's new technology is the only question.

My argument is FTTN is more than adequate for the foreseeable future (next 10 years), those who do genuinely need FTTP will pay for it, those who are smart enough will write it off as a business expense. There's nothing to suggest FTTP is needed in next 10 years, when the demand is there for it there's nothing stopping the Government from extending the cables from the node to the premises or if the technology is available build superior infrastructure. I know I'm sort of repeating myself but it is essentially a stop gap solution until we know the limitations of fibre networks.

15 billion is a lot of money to commit to something that may be outdated before it's even completed.

10 years ago we were still on dial up, where we will be in 10 years is anyone's guess.

The Liberal idea sounds half arsed to me, re-active rather than pro-active.

I go back to the roads analogy. And schools, hospitals, most essential services, immigration, in fact most things past governments have implemented.

Shortsighted, thinking in the now not the future.

Save 15 bill now, pay double that in 10 years to upgrade further. What do they call that, repeat business.

[Rooster_6]

10 years ago we were still on dial up, where we will be in 10 years is anyone's guess.

The Liberal idea sounds half arsed to me, re-active rather than pro-active.

I go back to the roads analogy. And schools, hospitals, most essential services, immigration, in fact most things past governments have implemented.

Shortsighted, thinking in the now not the future.

Save 15 bill now, pay double that in 10 years to upgrade further. What do they call that, repeat business.

Or Pay the 15 bill now and then pay whatever we would have paid replacing FTTN in the future anyway.

Ok, I'll play your analogy game.

Would you buy your son a Ferrari on his 21st for his first car and then replace it 5 years down the track with a new edition of the same Ferrari.

Or would you

Buy your son a BMW on his 18th for his first car and then replace it 8 years down the track with the latest Ferrari.


The first option takes longer to deliver and costs more, both first cars are more than adequate for his needs. However there's more possibilities with the Ferrari as a first car, you know he'll pull the chicks and it's a lot better to drive, hell he'd probably get jobs alone on the back of the car. After 5 years of his BMW he'll no doubt begin to whinge that it's not good enough for his lifestyle and he needs an upgrade however you have to put up with 3 years of his whinging until you can afford the new Ferrari. Although on the 1st option he'll whinge between the ages of 18 & 21 that he doesn't even have a car but after that all the whinging you'll hear is from your wife because you allocated so much of the families budget towards two Ferrari's when a cheaper first car would have done.

That's the way I see it.

How's that for an analogy?

[stsae]

That analogy made my eyes bleed.

We all invest in things knowing one day they will be something better on the market. That's life.

I guess do you invest in something you know will have to be upgraded or something that may have to be upgraded???

I believe you get what you pay for, mostly. When the cheaper option is having to be repaired or upgraded earlier than the more expensive option you realise that pretty quickly.

I worked at a butchers for a while and just loved how people would buy a piece of budget rump on special and wonder why it was like eating a shoe. They'd actually come and complain. It farking says budget and special and it's an average cut to begin with.

You want something of quality, you pay. Usually you don't complain.

You want to go the budget route, you pay less, but you know in the long run you're the fish.

[Guest]

I'm not going to argue that the FTTN is superior to FTTP in performance, no one is that stupid.

What I am questioning is whether it's worth paying all this money to build the infrastructure for homes that wont even fully utilise its capabilities.
Most Australians wont be able to pay for plans that support simultaneous downloading and streaming of 3D movies like you suggest. Their internet would be shaped after a week or two and they'd be back to using dial up speeds.

I understand businesses who have legitimate claims to needing the download and more importantly superior uploading speeds but there's nothing saying they can't pay the couple of thousand it'll cost to get Fiber to the premises.

I'm honestly not fussed either way, both have their pros and cons but this thought process that FTTN will be totally useless is flawed. For most Australians it will be ridiculously more than adequate.

You're still yet to convince me that the majority of Australia needs FTTP.

When did I ever say no one will ever need those speeds? You're worse than Rothfield, you've continually tried to discredit me and made up absolute bullshit without backing it up. How about an actual quote now where I said no one will ever need those speeds...
If anything it makes a liar out of your who said we will have the best Internet infrastructure in the world.

There you go 6 I quoted you proving you are a grade A hypocrite.

And my quote about the NBN being best in the world was made on the 4th where as this article about the Sony net came out on the 16th. I expect an apology 6 for calling me a liar.

Chook.

[Guest]

Well according to Teabags R6 isn't a fan of The Baloney Man and a massive fan of Bwaiff so I guess we need to send him to OPSM to get that short sighted ness corrected.

R6 will love that one.

6 you must admit it would be shortsighted to downsize the scale of such a project just cos we may save a few bucks???

Sure we don't need those speeds NOW but how often in the past have governments failed to plan or planned to fail???

As I've stated it's not political for me, I hate all the carnts equally, but logic tells me this Internet thingy won't be going away in the near future.

If you have a mortgage mate this kind of spending adding to the already massive debt the government has racked up around 200 billion will put upward pressure on interest rates.

[Kingsgrove-Loiner]

If you have a mortgage mate this kind of spending adding to the already massive debt the government has racked up around 200 billion will put upward pressure on interest rates.

Most of that debt was racked up avioding recession during the GFC mate. Job well done I reckon.

If you think we have a big debt, compare it to the 1Trillion in the UK, or 16 Trillion in the US. Like it or not, our economy is the envy of the civilised world.

[Kingsgrove-Loiner]

Listening to this bloke hardly fills me with confidence that he knows the difference between a good NBN system and his @rsehole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nch5BN0d9vE

[Rooster_6]

There you go 6 I quoted you proving you are a grade A hypocrite.

That quote doesn't say we will never need those speeds, just admit you were wrong.

And my quote about the NBN being best in the world was made on the 4th where as this article about the Sony net came out on the 16th. I expect an apology 6 for calling me a liar.

Chook.

Maybe you should do some more research, XPON (which will deliver speeds of 10gbps) has been in development for a couple of years and is in testing stage now. It's ignorance on you behalf to believe it will be the best network in the world in 8 years time. We're only just starting to uncover the possibilities of Fibre network.

[Guest]

Most of that debt was racked up avioding recession during the GFC mate. Job well done I reckon.

If you think we have a big debt, compare it to the 1Trillion in the UK, or 16 Trillion in the US. Like it or not, our economy is the envy of the civilised world.

so you pull forward future demand to forestall a recession that will happen in the end anyway. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Guest]

That quote doesn't say we will never need those speeds, just admit you were wrong.



Maybe you should do some more research, XPON (which will deliver speeds of 10gbps) has been in development for a couple of years and is in testing stage now. It's ignorance on you behalf to believe it will be the best network in the world in 8 years time. We're only just starting to uncover the possibilities of Fibre network.

lol semantics, the shallow hiding place of the hypocrite.

Chook.

[stsae]

If you have a mortgage mate this kind of spending adding to the already massive debt the government has racked up around 200 billion will put upward pressure on interest rates.

Isn't spending on infrastructure an investment in the future with benefits for us all???

Also wouldn't the costs travel down the line??? Meaning we will have to pay for whatever plan we go with, hence the govt will get back a lot of the costs???

I do have a mortgage mate. It's a pay pay pay world as far as I see. Interest rates are beyond my control, I therefore worry little about them TBH. I have never understood why they are so high, I just accept my punishment and hand over the cashola when instructed.

I don't see a lot of difference when it comes to the political parties personally. They all cheat, steal, lie and rip us off.

I'm not belittling what anyone else says or does. This topic is beyond me really. I just try to enjoy myself and live life to the fullest. I play my game, that's just how I roll.All I see is attempts at vote grabbing from both parties. And they ain't getting mine.