Copenhagen Treaty

[Kingbilly]

John I think you are extremely correct in questioning the truth of any opinions regarding this topic.
The problem I have with the whole "global warming" debate is that it was pushed by a nutcase in Al Gore who has no knowledge whatso ever about it and was using facts now shown to be extremely invalid. BW has also been perpetuated by scientists, many who are not independant and are only producing results their employor wants to see (and yes thats true on both sides).

Given the impact that governments are "conned" into fulfilling due to Al and his friends there has been no serious debate, just ignorant acceptance.
Forcing companies to reducing pollution and looking for more environmentally friendly scenarios is something everyone should be striving. Unfortunately due to the lack of sensible debate and the gung-ho ignorant governments schemes being proposed are nothing short of economic disaster and will have little impact in reducing pollution.

The ignorance of Lord Stern sums up the entire Al Gore brigade wwonderfully.

[Kingbilly]

Seas dont rise because of melting ice. Seas rise because of seismic activity and tectonic movement.

Heard someone on the radio the other day saying the rise in sea level was entirely the NSW governments fault, due to poor water resource planning .Any rain that falls into NSW it runs off to the sea and is not captured in any catchment areas. Therefore the sea rises.

They were joking, and I was amused.

[Guest]

Funny thing is that when it was found that the Earth has cooled over the past decade and that their modeling failed they changed from using Global Warming term to Climate Change. That should be a huge RED FLAG to anyone of common sense.

JohnL

.

This is where I started thinking about this.

I'd heard a lot of scientists interviewed and they all said the same thing.

This is a natural thing.What effect we have they don't know.

It's all caused by banks, supermarkets and petrol.

Greedy bastards

What happens when they've got all the money?

[Guest]

Funny thing is that when it was found that the Earth has cooled over the past decade and that their modeling failed they changed from using Global Warming term to Climate Change. That should be a huge RED FLAG to anyone of common sense.

JohnL

I think this is in part due to dwindling natural resources and an effort by the mega rich to retain there standard of living by lowering everybody elses and controlling us by using the politicians that have been bought and sold.

Thanks for the article that shows that when a solution is proposed for the so called problem Al Gore and his ilk call it nuts. The reason Al Gore does not want a solution is because he has setup a Carbon Trading company with 3 former Goldman Sachs bankers that will make him a billionaire.

What absolute bullshit!

Produce one shred of evidence that:
"the Earth has cooled over the past decade"
"and an effort by the mega rich to retain there standard of living by lowering everybody elses"
"Al Gore has setup a Carbon Trading company with 3 former Goldman Sachs bankers that will make him a billionaire"

And some opinion piece from the Drudge report or some other rightarded farkwit hovel is NOT evidence.

C'mon rcptn, I call utter bullshit on what you wrote, now back it up with evidence!

Chook.

[Guest]

What absolute bullshit!

Produce one shred of evidence that:
"the Earth has cooled over the past decade"
"and an effort by the mega rich to retain there standard of living by lowering everybody elses"
"Al Gore has setup a Carbon Trading company with 3 former Goldman Sachs bankers that will make him a billionaire"

And some opinion piece from the Drudge report or some other rightarded farkwit hovel is NOT evidence.

C'mon rcptn, I call utter bullshit on what you wrote, now back it up with evidence!

Chook.

Generation Investment Management

http://www.generationim.com/about/team.html

http://www.generationim.com/about/team/gore.html

The Honorable Al Gore
Chairman
Former Vice President Al Gore is co-founder and Chairman of Generation Investment Management and also a co-founder and Chairman of Current TV. He is a member of the Board of Directors of Apple Computer, Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Google, Inc. Mr. Gore is also a Visiting Professor at Middle Tennessee State University. Mr. Gore is the author of "An Inconvenient Truth," a best-selling book on the threat of and solutions to global warming, and the subject of the movie of the same title.

Since his earliest days in the U.S. Congress 30 years ago, Mr. Gore has been the leading advocate for confronting the threat of global warming. His pioneering efforts were outlined in his best-selling book "Earth in the Balance: Ecology and the Human Spirit" (1992). He led the Clinton-Gore Administration's efforts to protect the environment in a way that also strengthens the economy.

Mr. Gore received a degree in government with honors from Harvard University, and attended Vanderbilt University's Divinity School and Law School.

http://www.generationim.com/about/team/blood.html

David Blood
Senior Partner
David Blood is Senior Partner of Generation Investment Management, a fund management business dedicated to long term investment and integrated sustainability research. Previously, David served as co-CEO and CEO of Goldman Sachs Asset Management. His responsibilities included all aspects of the global business including portfolio management, sales and client service, risk management and infrastructure. David received a B.A. from Hamilton College and an M.B.A. from the Harvard Graduate School of Business. He is on the Board of Hamilton College, Social Finance, New Forests and SHINE; on the Investment Committee of the Acumen Fund and the Advisory Board of Bridges Ventures.

http://www.generationim.com/about/team/ferguson.html

Mark Ferguson
Managing Partner, Chief Investment Officer
Mark Ferguson, the Chief Investment Officer and member of the portfolio management team, covers the Global Financials sector of Generation. Prior to co-founding Generation, he worked at Schroder Investment Management from October 1993 until February 1999. While at Schroder Investment Management, he was rated as Number One European Fund Manager in the 1999 Reuters Survey. In February 1999, Mr. Ferguson joined Goldman Sachs Asset Management. He held various positions at Goldman Sachs Asset Management including co-Head of Financials Research Team, Member of Pan European Stock Selection Group, co-Head of Pan European Research and Global Equity Portfolio Manager.
Mr. Ferguson holds a B.Sc. (Hons) in Urban Land Economy from Sheffield Hallam University and an M.B.A. in International Finance from the European University in Paris. He is a member of the Board of Directors of SHINE. Mr. Ferguson speaks fluent French


http://www.generationim.com/about/te...ris-peter.html

Peter Harris
Managing Partner, Chief Operating Officer
Peter Harris is the Chief Operating Officer at Generation. Mr. Harris over 25 years of operations and administration experience in the asset management industry. Prior to co-founding Generation, he worked for CIN Management Limited (CINMan) for 19 years, where he established the Marketable Securities Division Operations Department, providing control and support to the investment management process for the British Coal Pension Schemes. In 1996 CINMan was acquired by Goldman Sachs. Mr. Harris joined the Asset Management Division of Goldman Sachs ("GSAM") where he was responsible for global projects that designed and implemented GSAM's global operations infrastructure and systems. In 2000 he transferred to New York to manage GSAM's North American operations, with responsibility for over 100 staff. He moved back to London in 2003 where he managed GSAM's international operations, including responsibility for the London, Frankfurt and Tokyo operations teams.Mr. Harris is a qualified accountant.

[Guest]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...ill-media-care

Gore Invests In Carbon Credit Company, Will Media Care?
By Noel Sheppard (Bio | Archive)
June 4, 2008 - 10:34 ET

For years, NewsBusters has contended that Nobel Laureate Al Gore is spreading global warming hysteria to benefit his own wallet.

On Wednesday, despite claims by one of Gore's representatives two months ago, it was revealed that his Generation Investment Management private equity fund has taken a 9.5 percent stake in a company that has one of the largest carbon credit portfolios in the world.

Yet, on April 6, NewsBusters' Matthew Vadum reported that in response to his The Media Ignore Al Gore's Planned Global Warming Profiteering article, a GIM spokesman called his piece a "nonsense story" while claiming that neither Gore nor any other members of GIM’s board have the slightest financial vested interest in the expansion of carbon trading.

According to Thomson Financial, that's now changed (emphasis added):



Generation Investment Management, the private equity fund chaired by former U.S. vice president Al Gore, has acquired a 9.5 percent stake in Camco International Ltd, a carbon asset developer.

Generation, set up in 2004 by Gore and David Blood, former chief of Goldman Sachs's asset management arm, now holds 16 million Camco shares, Camco said in a statement.

Camco, which has one of the world's largest carbon credit portfolios, works with companies to identify and develop projects that reduce greenhouse gas emissions and then arranges the sale and delivery of carbon credits.

Yet, on April 2, the Chronicle of Philanthropy reported the following concerning Vadum's allegations about Gore's global warming profiteering (emphasis added):

Richard Campbell, a spokesman for Generation Investment Management, called the suggestions a “nonsense story.”

In an e-mail message to The Chronicle, he writes that neither Mr. Gore nor any other members of the investment company’s board will make money from the expansion of carbon trading.

“To suggest then that they are somehow benefiting from the growth of this industry betrays a complete lack of knowledge of the carbon offset industry,” he writes.

That's not true anymore, is it Richard?

Of course, this is truly a fascinating development coming the very week Congress started debating a global warming bill which includes a carbon cap and trade scheme that would radically expand carbon trading and the use of carbon credits in this country.

Also interesting was Gore's support of this bill posted at the Senate's Environment & Public Works website Monday:

"I want to commend Senator Boxer for her leadership of the Environment and Public Works Committee. Thanks to her vision and dedication, we have the first global warming bill in history that is comprehensive, bipartisan and that enjoys support across the country--from labor and agriculture to the business and the environmental communities. Of course the bill needs to be stronger, but it's vital that Congress begin to act. While it's important that people change their light bulbs, it's even more important that we change the laws."

Add it all up, and Gore's investment company now definitely DOES have a stake in carbon trading, and, therefore, additional financial incentive for the Nobel Laureate to spread global warming alarmism which results in government enacted legislation to counter it.

I'm sure every media outlet will be all over this development in the next 24 hours...not!

*****Update: Reuters has now reported this, although conveniently ignoring the phrase "carbon credit." Regardless, now that a major wire service has addressed it, there's no excuse for other media not to. Stay tuned.

[Guest]

Listen to Lord Christopher Monckton with Michael Smith on 4BC

very interesting stuff

http://www.4bc.com.au/

[Guest]

And?

Still waiting for you to back your claim "Al Gore has set up a cardon trading company to make him a billionare" all you've quoted proves that he is chairman of private investment fund that will make him a billionare! Everyone already knew that.

This is just another halfarsed conspiracy theory from some blogger at "Newsbusters"!

And where's the bit about the earth cooling?

And AGW is all about the rich staying richer?

You're not doing yourself any favours man.

Chook.

[Guest]

And?

Still waiting for you to back your claim "Al Gore has set up a cardon trading company to make him a billionare" all you've quoted proves that he is chairman of private investment fund that will make him a billionare! Everyone already knew that.

This is just another halfarsed conspiracy theory from some blogger at "Newsbusters"!

And where's the bit about the earth cooling?

And AGW is all about the rich staying richer?

You're not doing yourself any favours man.

Chook.

You obviously have failed to read or listen to any of the evidence I have already provided in this thread Chook.

[Guest]

More evidence for Chook to ignore


Sydney gets the cold shoulder
REBECCA RICHARDSON
November 1, 2009

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sydne...1031-hqpo.html

SYDNEYSIDERS are repacking their winter woollies after the coldest October in 17 years.

The average temperature last month was just 21.3 degrees, making daylight hours at least one degree below the average.

The last time Sydney experienced such a cold October was in 1992, when the maximum average nudged 21.1 degrees.

Sydney's October was almost two degrees colder than September, when it would normally have been about two degrees warmer.

Martin Palmer, of the Weather Company, said cloud cover and rain had kept the temperatures down.

''Last week we saw that rain come through; it was a case of a very active pool of cold air stuck across NSW,'' he said.

Summer is predicted to have below-average rainfall with fewer clouds and sunnier skies.

[Kramer]

rcptn, I have to say you provide very compelling evidence that the global warming theory is easily debunked.
Having read the bulk of what you have posted I'm inclined to agree.
Although I was of that school of though prior to reading your posts.
One other concern that I have is the increase in cost of goods & services that will be imposed as a result of the Copenhagen conference, one reason that Rudd want to get his ETS bill through parliament proir to December.
There will be big increases in cost relating to manufacturing and transportation, that will increase inflation and put further upward pressure on interest rates. Something that will hurt many ordinary Aussies.

[Guest]

rcptn, I have to say you provide very compelling evidence that the global warming theory is easily debunked.
Having read the bulk of what you have posted I'm inclined to agree.
Although I was of that school of though prior to reading your posts.
One other concern that I have is the increase in cost of goods & services that will be imposed as a result of the Copenhagen conference, one reason that Rudd want to get his ETS bill through parliament proir to December.
There will be big increases in cost relating to manufacturing and transportation, that will increase inflation and put further upward pressure on interest rates. Something that will hurt many ordinary Aussies.

If what I suspect about the future is correct then the powers that be need as many people as possible to be dependent on them. They have to make as many of us poor so that we will willingly turn to them and accept there communistic system.

They have been slowly ingraining the entitlement culture into as many of us as possible over the past 25 years. Even the Howard Coalition government after initially cracking down on welfare payment abuse ended up establishing a middle class welfare culture through family payments.

So therefore increase in prices on everything once an ets is established is imho exactly what they want. It will crush jobs because spending on anything but neccessities for the bulk of Australians will be severely limited or iradicated altogether. The economy will be permanently in a bust and then they will say capitalism is at fault and is not working and they will offer the solution as being one more like communist China.

On a closing note remember when Kevin Rudd wrote that essay I think it was last Christmas holidays about how Neo Liberalism and the free markets ruined the economy and led to the GFC. Funny that now he has appointed former treasurer Peter Costello to look after the Future Fund

[Guest]

So what happens if they are right? Let's just say we do nothing and as my previous post says we just keep doing what we are doing till we run out of fossil fuels? If the climatologists are right and we tip over the edge, it will not be a quick turn around solution.

Facts can be drawn from both sides but it seems that only the one point is given. The ones that you want others to believe in the same opinion of your own.

I find it funny how when you don't want to believe something it is easy to dismiss as a crap publication, journalist, source, etc, etc, but when it lines up with your stance, it is God given fact.

Just to reiterate, I am still undecided.

[Guest]

So what happens if they are right? Let's just say we do nothing and as my previous post says we just keep doing what we are doing till we run out of fossil fuels? If the climatologists are right and we tip over the edge, it will not be a quick turn around solution.

Facts can be drawn from both sides but it seems that only the one point is given. The ones that you want others to believe in the same opinion of your own.

I find it funny how when you don't want to believe something it is easy to dismiss as a crap publication, journalist, source, etc, etc, but when it lines up with your stance, it is God given fact.

Just to reiterate, I am still undecided.

Fossil fuels are still abundant as far as I know, they will just keep on getting more and more expensive to produce and therefore more and more expensive too consume. Alternatives will then become economicly viable and fill some of the void. As I said previously resource depletion is likely the main reason the powers that be want a communist system where they control everything so that there standard of living is maintained at everybody elses expense.

The UN IPPC report that claims to have around 2000 prominent climatoligists is a farce because in reality there were heaps beaurucrats and others listed who were no more scientits than you or me. Also of the ones who in reality climatoligists only a few signed off on the report.

I can understand how somebody can be undecided because up until a few years ago I was undecided myself. But these days I only have about a 5% doubt.

[Kingbilly]

John its not about Fossil fuels, never was never has been.
RCTPN, They are not in abundant supply and will eventually run out.

We should have been off fossil fuels by now, but evertime someone gets close it gets bought out and shelved.

The current "climate change" / "global warming" fad is not about supplying a viable solution, its about making noise and insistance on righteousness. Why propose a proper solution when you can spend your time attacking your opposition, simply proposing rubbish and then screaming when someone attempts to contradict them.


The environment is not a "market", its not an economic tool. Its something to be taken seriously unfortunately its being abused and used by charlatans and the greedy for their own needs.