“Defence” Spending is irrelevant!

[Guest]

Australia and other countries are wasting billions a year buying upgrades for their armed forces that will do precisely nothing to ensure their safety or that country’s defence.

I already hear you all now – GREENY – LEFTY – blah blah blah, but hear me out first.

Australia spends billions on defending ourselves against enemies we have trade agreements with - Indonesia, Korea, China, Tasmania.

Our armed forces supposedly protect us against terrorists - who are an enemy that strap explosives to each other, walk into buildings and blow themselves up.

Our entire, combined defence force could probably protect about 10 kilometres of our coast line leaving 15 million kilometres of coast line unprotected and open to invasion.

We build multi billion dollar submarines that will do what in regards to stopping suicide bombers?

And how many terrorists attacks have occurred in Australia?

We are wasting this money. The premise for warfare has changed yet our armed forces, whilst they have been outfitted with the latest gadgetry, are a complete and utter waste of money. And I cast no criticism at the men and women who decide to serve, they are beyond reproach.

What I am criticising is the fact that we spend money on an outdated and irrelevant industry, why?

Chook.

[Guest]

You reckon it might be conspiracy then???

[Guest]

We do it in the unlikely event that one country fights against another. You can't protect against people that want to kill themselves for their cause. That is near on impossible. If mass numbers decide to attack - that is another country - then we have some line of defence. Not a great deal, but some.

[melon....]

Chook,

First let me say - you have me concerned. You have now mentioned wasting money in two posts....that is very unlike a Ruddite. Are you feeling OK?

Secondly, Australia also wastes billions (2.8 to be precise) on consultants that delivered nothing and $900 payouts to dead people and people living in Majorca. Now there's a waste with zero benefit and maximum pain forthcoming (via uneccesary debt).

Technically i agree with your sentiment. We have a nation of cockless wonders. if China wanted us tomorrow, we'd be dead, ****ed, rooted, etc. They could march in and take the lot. they could brush off the States with the other hand. So in terms of defence, I agree we spend money for little defence. What it does do though is provide, training, skills, jobs and food on the table for thousands of families. Australian families. Jobs that will soon go thanks to the Extra Tax System - if its implemented.

Id rather spend on Defense, have some defence no matter how trivial, and provide jobs for Aussies. beats the **** out of paying Parliamentary Pensions dont you reckon?

[Danish]

While there is undoubtedly areas of our defence force that we are wasting money spending on, our naval fleet certainly is NOT one of them.

Rule the seas and you rule the world, as they say, and that still applies today. The real reason why the US is the military power it is has nothing to do with its Nukes, it has to do with their ability to control the oceans.

Our sub marine and battleship fleet is what keeps us as the enforcer of the south pacific. If you turned the tides and indonesia had our naval capability and we had theirs, we'd be taken over by now.

[Guest]

While there is undoubtedly areas of our defence force that we are wasting money spending on, our naval fleet certainly is NOT one of them.

Rule the seas and you rule the world, as they say, and that still applies today. The real reason why the US is the military power it is has nothing to do with its Nukes, it has to do with their ability to control the oceans.

Our sub marine and battleship fleet is what keeps us as the enforcer of the south pacific. If you turned the tides and indonesia had our naval capability and we had theirs, we'd be taken over by now.

Umm we don't have any battleships and our subs are substandard rubbish.

The point I was trying to make in this thread was why spend money on protecting ourselves against "enemies" we have trade agreements with?

Chook.

[The General]

We build multi billion dollar submarines that will do what in regards to stopping suicide bombers?

I think we buy our dud subs from overseas.

And how many terrorists attacks have occurred in Australia?

None...... yet.

Terrorist attacks have been ongoing throughout the Middle East, Africa, Europe and Asia. Mainly against U.S. targets and their allies however they are now occuring on U.S. soil (911 & recent base shootings) and in Britain (London Bombings) and very close to Australia's doorstep (Bali Bombings).

Unfortunately Chook it will eventually happen on Aussie soil and you're right our military can't prevent it from happening.

[The General]

While there is undoubtedly areas of our defence force that we are wasting money spending on, our naval fleet certainly is NOT one of them.

Rule the seas and you rule the world, as they say, and that still applies today. The real reason why the US is the military power it is has nothing to do with its Nukes, it has to do with their ability to control the oceans.

Our sub marine and battleship fleet is what keeps us as the enforcer of the south pacific. If you turned the tides and indonesia had our naval capability and we had theirs, we'd be taken over by now.

The Brits found out during the Falklands War that a modern navy is useless in a modern world. A few el cheapo Argentine ATS missiles sunk one and badly knobbled another of her majesty's finest.

A modern navy is great for patrolling, troop transport, aid missions etc. but ruling the seas is no longer relevant.

[The General]

Umm we don't have any battleships and our subs are substandard rubbish.

We don't even have a diesel aircraft carrier!

The point I was trying to make in this thread was why spend money on protecting ourselves against "enemies" we have trade agreements with?
Chook.

That is so true but every nation trades with every other nation prior to war. It's always been that way.

British made armourments were used against them in the Falklands, the Iraqis used US bought weapons against America in the Gulf Wars, even the Afghanis used Soviet made AK-47 assault rifles against the Ruskies.

When I was in the army (86-89) we "unofficially" trained for a war against Indonesia yet we had combined military exercises with their troops in FNQ and the NT!

We do still need a regular army though. We did a lot of flood relief, bush fire fighting and general emergency assistance here in Oz as well as rebuilding, road paving, damming, irrigation, bridging, well drilling, mine clearing and general peace keeping in the Asia Pacific region.

Errr... that is when we weren't getting trashed, stoned, brawling or just sitting around reading porn.

[Guest]

The Brits found out during the Falklands War that a modern navy is useless in a modern world. A few el cheapo Argentine ATS missiles sunk one and badly knobbled another of her majesty's finest.

A modern navy is great for patrolling, troop transport, aid missions etc. but ruling the seas is no longer relevant.

Useless...Try telling that to the USS Ronald Reagan as it is landing nukes on your doorstep from its ideal range...

[The General]

Useless...Try telling that to the USS Ronald Reagan as it is landing nukes on your doorstep from its ideal range...

I know what you're saying new spanner but you can launch a squillion nuclear ICBMs without leaving home.