The Libs are gone!!!

[melon....]

At least we will get a vote on it, unlike Howard's GST.

You liberal sycophants seem to have forgotten that one eh?

Chook.

How could we forget that one? it was teh mechanism that paid off huge Labor debt, and enabled your lot to go on a wild wasteful spending spree. We will never forget teh GST. We also havent forgotten how Labor pissed our prosperity up the wall.

[melon....]

melon your the delusional one here, by electing the mad monk to lead you, youve assured a labor win at least the next possibly next two elections, back to the grand old days of no stem cell research, no abortions, more workchoices, more church control ie censorship of your life! you may as well vote family first? at least the country is in good hands now!

The only cock sure ones about Rudd winning are the die hard lefties. The electorate isnt so confident as you make out.

The issue I have with this whole Labor proposal, is its based on an "Economy". tehy are creating a new for of currency. If you look into it, the schemes proposed are never about saviong teh Earth. thats just rhetoric for people like you abnd Chook to blindly fall into.

The reality is Energy control and consumption. Oil is finite. And currently Coal will out last Oil. There's a power struggle right there between teh factions that own teh interests in these 2 fuels. Its about reducing usage, controlling the consumption and if cleaner air and water is a resultant as well as happy OPEC, then were all happy.

It has nothing to do with Climate or Weather. its about consumption. They should just come out and say "If yo want to leave on every light in the house, then go ahead - but we will make it so expensiove youll choose not to.

The reality is this. We have a choice. Use less fossil fuels, and slowly contract our lifestyles, or poor money into real sustainable alternatives, including Nuclear and Hydrogen facilities research, Wind Water, Solar whatever.

Teh issue isnt that teh World is melting and heating up. The issue is fuel is drying up...it always was the issue for decades. Its just now, Governments are trying to milk that mindset.
Theyve sucked in you and people like you. Theyve sucked in Chook too. but I dont blame you guys. I blame both sides of politics and business for not expressing the reality. The real drivers of this Climate Debate is not climate. Its Fuel Consumption.

Rudd is upto his eyeballs in the scam, as are most leaders in the world that are Left aligned. Why? because itys an opportunity whilst the public is being bluffed, to misappropriate funds from any such scheme and distribute wealth to the countries that firstly dont have it, and secondly have no intention of complying to any agreements.

You know what China will do? Theyll go to Coppenhagen and commit to 40% reductions in coal conbustion energy. Why because tehy can - Theyll just crank up the Nuclear stations they have and power on selling us crap.

We cant do that. We dobt have alternatives. So its rich expecting teh nation to comply with something that we are ill prepared to deal with and secondly we the people are not being consulted about the true requirement to do this. It aint Clinmate its about Consumption and political posturing in teh UN. Rudd likes to play this game. It has engrossed him and nothing else is being done at home on other issues. Thats why the electorate is fed up. Thast why you shouldnt assume Rudd will win anything from here on.
Chook and yourself can keep hugging as many trees as you like. It changes **** all in the end.
These ****s will do what they want, for reasons other than they allow you to believe. We can make a difference by keeping them accountable, or at least trying. Abbott is correct in saying "Stop" - why the rush. But he must also have a plan to help Australia accept the shift in CONSUMPTION RATES. Not divide communities over bullshit science.

[Kingbilly]

both played for the same rugby club,

Clovelly, Coogee or South Coogee ?

Now these are the important questions

[Guest]

I'm taking a stab in the dark here....


But it could be the billions of dollars in tax payer money that these businesses stand to receive in government subsidies.

Ok thanks for clarifying the fact you obviously know fark all about what a market based ETS is or how one works. And you can add big business man Melon to that list, cause it's obvious he knows even less than you do about how a market based ETS scheme would work and why people with actual business smarts are calling for one.

Chook.

[Guest]

So they can put up prices whenever they want and have an excuse that they are covering the costs of the permits

So you too have NFI how a market based scheme would work. The market would determine the cost of permits dumbarse, just as it does now with everything else. Clueless!

Chook.

[Guest]

So you too have NFI how a market based scheme would work. The market would determine the cost of permits dumbarse, just as it does now with everything else. Clueless!

Chook.

Yes and the cost will be passed onto us consumers GOOSE

[melon....]

Ok thanks for clarifying the fact you obviously know fark all about what a market based ETS is or how one works. And you can add big business man Melon to that list, cause it's obvious he knows even less than you do about how a market based ETS scheme would work and why people with actual business smarts are calling for one.

Chook.

Why are they calling for one Chook? Because they can make a buck passing teh costs onto the consumer. its money for jam. With zero impact on teh environment, and more importantly on current consumption levels.

The problem with you and your lefty mates is you lack the big picture. Its about consumption. So an ETS comes in, we hammer the industry which hammers the consumer. The consumer is left with the burden to change their lifestyle or perish financially - not ecologically. The energy Supplier? No incentyive to reduce consumption, because Rudd and your mates have just given him a ticket that says - burn away baby, you arent paying for it. Thankfully Teh Mad Monk has stopped this madness in its tracks. Dead.

It seems us Right Wing nutjobs are bigger environmnetalists than your lefty latte sipping Greenpeace warriors.

If i was in a business that was industrious in terms of manufacturing? id be wanting it too so i could skim the costs before passing the full cost down to you. Its ****ing simple but you and your fiscal conservative mates from teh Left make it oh so murky and unclear.

[Kramer]

Elequently put Melon.

We await the next installment from Chicken....I mean Clucker.

[Guest]

Elequently put Melon.

We await the next installment from Chicken....I mean Clucker.

I thought it was plucka Duck

[Kingbilly]

and why people with actual business smarts are calling for one.
Chook.

Thats very selective Chook. The businesses that are calling for this type of ETS are those in finance and economics. They are the only winners
Producers and suppliers of goods, often people with alot more practical business sense hate the scheme and are calling for it to be canned.

[stephenj]

kingbilly the club sadly nolonger exists was known as shobs an acronym for sydney high 0ld boys!

[stephenj]

its aleady interesting to watch the fluctuating price of recs or carbon credits, once were around $40 now trading above $20!

[Guest]

Yes the Libs are gone Chook

http://www.smh.com.au/national/liber...1205-kc69.html

Liberals claim first victories of new era
STEPHANIE PEATLING
December 6, 2009


LIBERAL voters in two key byelections yesterday gave Tony Abbott's leadership a resounding endorsement after a feared voter backlash did not eventuate.

The Opposition claimed victory in both the northern suburbs seat of Bradfield and the Melbourne seat of Higgins, bringing welcome relief to party officials after weeks of turmoil.

There were small swings against the Liberal Party to the Greens in both seats, but at no point did they threaten to unsettle the Opposition's hold on the seats.

Former Optus executive Paul Fletcher comfortably held on to Bradfield, formerly held by Brendan Nelson, where the Liberals' margin dropped only slightly.

Mr Fletcher said the result was evidence that climate change was not at the top of voters' agendas.

"My experience ... during the campaign was that people were concerned about private health insurance, overdevelopment, economic management and so on. Climate change came up as an issue, but it wasn't the number one issue."

In Higgins, the seat formerly held by Peter Costello, fears that Kelly O'Dwyer would be forced to take preferences to win were unfounded when she won with a swing of less than 1 per cent against her.

In some booths, the Liberals even increased their vote.

Mr Abbott said yesterday's outcomes showed "people are deeply concerned about the cost of an emissions trading scheme on their family budget".

Last night, the Greens were celebrating after coming clear second in the primary vote in both seats.

Leader Bob Brown said the Greens had outperformed Labor's primary vote in both Higgins and Bradfield at the 2007 federal election.

Susie Gemmell, the Greens candidate in Bradfield, said voters were telling her they disagreed with Mr Abbott's views on climate change.

But mixed fortunes greeted some of the other minor parties.

Marianne Leishman, aka Zahra Stardust, said her Australian Sex Party had attracted votes across the spectrum, "from 18-year-olds to 70-year-old women".

But the Sex Party's candidate in Higgins, adult industry promoter Fiona Patten, had an unwelcome start to polling day when she was pulled over by police.

The officers were responding to complaints about Ms Patten's car, which had a "Vote 1 The Australian Sex Party" sign and four other authorised campaign posters.

After weeks of instability and a leadership change just four days before the poll the Liberal Party was bracing itself for the worst, particularly in Higgins.

The result is a shot in the arm for Mr Abbott and his followers who feared some of the party's base would turn against him.

It also shows concerns that Mr Abbott would alienate women voters are unfounded.

Labor did not run a candidate in either seat. It may find the results unsettling after a week in which the Federal Government has painted the Opposition as a party of climate change sceptics.

Mr Fletcher and Ms O'Dwyer had both spent weeks trying to convince voters they were supportive of strong action on climate change.

with ERIK JENSEN

[Guest]

Yes the Libs are gone Chook

http://www.smh.com.au/national/liber...1205-kc69.html

Liberals claim first victories of new era
STEPHANIE PEATLING
December 6, 2009


LIBERAL voters in two key byelections yesterday gave Tony Abbott's leadership a resounding endorsement after a feared voter backlash did not eventuate.

The Opposition claimed victory in both the northern suburbs seat of Bradfield and the Melbourne seat of Higgins, bringing welcome relief to party officials after weeks of turmoil.

There were small swings against the Liberal Party to the Greens in both seats, but at no point did they threaten to unsettle the Opposition's hold on the seats.

Former Optus executive Paul Fletcher comfortably held on to Bradfield, formerly held by Brendan Nelson, where the Liberals' margin dropped only slightly.

Mr Fletcher said the result was evidence that climate change was not at the top of voters' agendas.

"My experience ... during the campaign was that people were concerned about private health insurance, overdevelopment, economic management and so on. Climate change came up as an issue, but it wasn't the number one issue."

In Higgins, the seat formerly held by Peter Costello, fears that Kelly O'Dwyer would be forced to take preferences to win were unfounded when she won with a swing of less than 1 per cent against her.

In some booths, the Liberals even increased their vote.

Mr Abbott said yesterday's outcomes showed "people are deeply concerned about the cost of an emissions trading scheme on their family budget".

Last night, the Greens were celebrating after coming clear second in the primary vote in both seats.

Leader Bob Brown said the Greens had outperformed Labor's primary vote in both Higgins and Bradfield at the 2007 federal election.

Susie Gemmell, the Greens candidate in Bradfield, said voters were telling her they disagreed with Mr Abbott's views on climate change.

But mixed fortunes greeted some of the other minor parties.

Marianne Leishman, aka Zahra Stardust, said her Australian Sex Party had attracted votes across the spectrum, "from 18-year-olds to 70-year-old women".

But the Sex Party's candidate in Higgins, adult industry promoter Fiona Patten, had an unwelcome start to polling day when she was pulled over by police.

The officers were responding to complaints about Ms Patten's car, which had a "Vote 1 The Australian Sex Party" sign and four other authorised campaign posters.

After weeks of instability and a leadership change just four days before the poll the Liberal Party was bracing itself for the worst, particularly in Higgins.

The result is a shot in the arm for Mr Abbott and his followers who feared some of the party's base would turn against him.

It also shows concerns that Mr Abbott would alienate women voters are unfounded.

Labor did not run a candidate in either seat. It may find the results unsettling after a week in which the Federal Government has painted the Opposition as a party of climate change sceptics.

Mr Fletcher and Ms O'Dwyer had both spent weeks trying to convince voters they were supportive of strong action on climate change.

with ERIK JENSEN

what were the options available to voters?

[Guest]

what were the options available to voters?

There were 22 candidates in Bradfield and about 10 in Higgins