Common sense prevailed

[stephenj]

i agree with you chook, this lady will be a revered leader in the fullness of time! i think trabbit will just fade into obscurity forever jogging and jibbering stop the boats, pay off debt! like a scene out of forrest gump?

[Guest]

Of course it will cost more in 10 years time. Silly question. Why don't we build freeways now instead of waiting for 10 or 20 years? We need those. Why don't they build a better transport system for commuters? The train from Newcastle to Sydney actually takes LONGER to get between the 2 points than it did 20 years ago. The question is do we need it at all? Now don't misunderstand the question, of course we need broadband, of course we need infrastructure but do we need it at 1Gbps?

If you want to future proof the NBN yes you do want it at 1GBps. When you see a new housing estate being built the first thing they build is roads to provide access to build the rest of it. That is what the NBN is and will provide. I'm sure a dirt track into that housing estate would suffice, but why do something half arsed (Abbotts NBN plan) when you know you'll have to upgrade very soon into the future?

You say that more and more services will come online and that may be true but will people take them up? It is all about interactivity. If you are on the net surfing for information, you won't be playing you x-box with someone on the other side of the world. If you are watching an on demand movie, you won't be listening to the radio via a online digital radio station over broadband. There is only so much you can be doing at any one time. Go to a library and ask to borrow 300 books. They won't give them to you even if you say you are going to read them all.

You're only thinking from an individual perspective - ie what I'm going to be able to do. Sure you'll be able to do all the above...at once, but then you'll only be utilising about 0.000000000002% of what the NBN can provide. Others will want to use it far more to its potential.

Why would we want to take advantage of wireless technology when we have already spent a motza on fibre? There are other technologies that will suffice for a lot of areas that can be used now.

Because even the NBN will not be 100% coverage of every Australian. However the wireless operators will be able to plug their nodes into the NBN thus alleviating much of the issue wireless currently has regarding distances between nodes, the less that distance the better the service.

Once we roll out this you beaut infrastructure, we will be the envy of the world.

Well no actually we will be on par with the rest of the world. You may not know this but Australia is far behind the rest of the western world with regards to high speed internet. Japan, USA, UK, much of Europe have had high speed broadband for 15 years. Little Johnny Maggot spent nothing on infrastructure in his 11 years in government and as a result we are years behind other first world countries, particularly regarding broadband.

Will the town that has 100 residents use all of the bandwidth potential provided? Maybe when they pick up their Lamborgini at the local dealership they can discuss it with the salesman.

Probably not at first, but why should they be denied access to equal broadband simply because they only have 100 people living there? What about when the time comes when they want to make use of the bandwidth and it isn't there? Do we build it then?

This NBN plan is looking decades into the future, which is exactly what infrastructure spending like this should be doing, looking long term. You are looking at tomorrow and saying "there is nothing there to make use of it". And therein lies the problem.

I can clearly see the potential of a first class broadband network, you can't.

Chook.

[melon....]

If you want to future proof the NBN yes you do want it at 1GBps. When you see a new housing estate being built the first thing they build is roads to provide access to build the rest of it. That is what the NBN is and will provide. I'm sure a dirt track into that housing estate would suffice, but why do something half arsed (Abbotts NBN plan) when you know you'll have to upgrade very soon into the future?



You're only thinking from an individual perspective - ie what I'm going to be able to do. Sure you'll be able to do all the above...at once, but then you'll only be utilising about 0.000000000002% of what the NBN can provide. Others will want to use it far more to its potential.



Because even the NBN will not be 100% coverage of every Australian. However the wireless operators will be able to plug their nodes into the NBN thus alleviating much of the issue wireless currently has regarding distances between nodes, the less that distance the better the service.



Well no actually we will be on par with the rest of the world. You may not know this but Australia is far behind the rest of the western world with regards to high speed internet. Japan, USA, UK, much of Europe have had high speed broadband for 15 years. Little Johnny Maggot spent nothing on infrastructure in his 11 years in government and as a result we are years behind other first world countries, particularly regarding broadband.




Probably not at first, but why should they be denied access to equal broadband simply because they only have 100 people living there? What about when the time comes when they want to make use of the bandwidth and it isn't there? Do we build it then?

This NBN plan is looking decades into the future, which is exactly what infrastructure spending like this should be doing, looking long term. You are looking at tomorrow and saying "there is nothing there to make use of it". And therein lies the problem.

I can clearly see the potential of a first class broadband network, you can't.

Chook.

Chook,

Its a great idea with huge potential. The problem Abbott has highlighted is cost. What will it cost? Labor cant show what they are telling us. Ive recently done an analysis for a client (telco) and we are talking the Labor proposal to cost at least 90 billion and up to 120 billion, not the 43 they are waffling about. Time is also an issue. It will not be ready for at least 5 years not 3.

For once I wish Labor would come clean and show the Australian tax payer the numbers. They've demanded and made an issue of the Liberals failure to go through Treasury on costings, why inst anyone questioning the lack of costings around the NBN? I dont have an issue with the idea of the NBN, and there are many ways it can be delivered.

I am a bit perplexed as to why you and others aren't questioning the costings and devil in the detail that is yet to come forth. And get rid of that idiot minister Combet or whatever he's called, and that crook on 450K Mike Kaiser. Its probably the best portfolio and the worst minister is in charge. Give it to an independent, or let the Greens with the help of a liberal MP govern this one :-)

[melon....]

i agree with you chook, this lady will be a revered leader in the fullness of time! i think trabbit will just fade into obscurity forever jogging and jibbering stop the boats, pay off debt! like a scene out of forrest gump?

Com off it Steve. You and Chook were crowing about Rudd in the same fashion. The current lot are clueless. Thats a fact.

[Rocky Rhodes]

Why does the country need super fast broadband? People do not need 100Mbps in their house. They are talking about it being upgraded to 1Gbps. WTF? What the hell can you do with that?

The fastest speed that we need is video streaming. It is no good downloading a movie in 7 seconds if it still takes you 90 minutes to watch it.

Businesses need fast broadband in some cases but residences do not.

Not saying it is a waste of money as I do agree that it will be something that will be of benefit but it is like given a farmer a Lamborgini and telling him to take out at to speed in the paddock.

Just as well you were not around in the very early 1900's because you would be complaining about introducing electricity to houses. Gee, why supply electricity to the country folk when they can use lanterns or candles etc it's too expensive blah blah blah. Same principle here..

Or if this was 1990 instead of 2010, gee why do we need more than 1 MB of ram in a computer, it's more than sufficient lol

Farg you libtards are seriously backwards, no ability to think of future requirements or needs. Time to "move forwards"

And by the way, not everyone living outside the cities are farmers.

[Guest]

Chook,

Its a great idea with huge potential. The problem Abbott has highlighted is cost. What will it cost? Labor cant show what they are telling us. Ive recently done an analysis for a client (telco) and we are talking the Labor proposal to cost at least 90 billion and up to 120 billion, not the 43 they are waffling about. Time is also an issue. It will not be ready for at least 5 years not 3.

For once I wish Labor would come clean and show the Australian tax payer the numbers. They've demanded and made an issue of the Liberals failure to go through Treasury on costings, why inst anyone questioning the lack of costings around the NBN? I dont have an issue with the idea of the NBN, and there are many ways it can be delivered.

I am a bit perplexed as to why you and others aren't questioning the costings and devil in the detail that is yet to come forth. And get rid of that idiot minister Combet or whatever he's called, and that crook on 450K Mike Kaiser. Its probably the best portfolio and the worst minister is in charge. Give it to an independent, or let the Greens with the help of a liberal MP govern this one :-)

I'm not questioning your maths Melon, but if your estimates were even half right the Indies would have made a huge song and dance about it as they have been briefed by treasury on the cost of the NBN.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1225914507624

As I said earlier, the build is estimated to cost taxpayers around 26bill with the rest made up from telco's and ISP's signing on board with the NBN.

I'll ask you the same question about cost I ask JohnL earlier, will building the NBN be chearper now or if we wait 10 years?

Chook.

[Rocky Rhodes]

Chook,

Its a great idea with huge potential. The problem Abbott has highlighted is cost. What will it cost? Labor cant show what they are telling us. Ive recently done an analysis for a client (telco) and we are talking the Labor proposal to cost at least 90 billion and up to 120 billion, not the 43 they are waffling about. Time is also an issue. It will not be ready for at least 5 years not 3.

For once I wish Labor would come clean and show the Australian tax payer the numbers. They've demanded and made an issue of the Liberals failure to go through Treasury on costings, why inst anyone questioning the lack of costings around the NBN? I dont have an issue with the idea of the NBN, and there are many ways it can be delivered.

I am a bit perplexed as to why you and others aren't questioning the costings and devil in the detail that is yet to come forth. And get rid of that idiot minister Combet or whatever he's called, and that crook on 450K Mike Kaiser. Its probably the best portfolio and the worst minister is in charge. Give it to an independent, or let the Greens with the help of a liberal MP govern this one :-)

Wow...what a massive backflip melon. Going by what you were telling us in the 4C forum you hated the idea and that all it was good for was downloading faster porn. What next melon, are you gonna vote labor in the next election.

Ive recently done an analysis for a client (telco) and we are talking the Labor proposal to cost at least 90 billion and up to 120 billion,

Ok then, tell us why the labor costings are wrong melon. Please provide a detailed costing on here. Since you done an analysis already it should be a simple task.

It will not be ready for at least 5 years not 3.

Who said it's 3 yrs? They have clearly mentioned 5 yrs.

[novice chook]

P.S - Oh and you need to stop listening to Allan Jones and Ray Hadley.

Who are they again and when are they on?? I'm a MMM gal nowdays myself, with the occasional foray to WSFM.


NC

[melon....]

I'm not questioning your maths Melon, but if your estimates were even half right the Indies would have made a huge song and dance about it as they have been briefed by treasury on the cost of the NBN.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1225914507624

As I said earlier, the build is estimated to cost taxpayers around 26bill with the rest made up from telco's and ISP's signing on board with the NBN.

I'll ask you the same question about cost I ask JohnL earlier, will building the NBN be chearper now or if we wait 10 years?

Chook.

To answer your question it depends how we build it. The roll out they are planning will take at least 5 years so the question needs to be asked. Will this technology that is rolled out now be scalable in 5 years time or obsolete? Thats where the answer in regards to the true cost of ownership lies.

If they focus more on Wireless technologies for the bush and less "glass", it will be cheaper to build now. The bush is so far behind on all telco services, that they dont need upto 1Gbit/sec to front door. They just need something that works. That something will probably scale beyond 5 years with the emerging wireless technologies. And therefore it will come down to which technology suits the bush, completely because of cost and real requirements. The government can roll out glass in the big cities where they know its wanted (again - not needed, wanted) they can quickly recoup the costs.

[melon....]

Wow...what a massive backflip melon. Going by what you were telling us in the 4C forum you hated the idea and that all it was good for was downloading faster porn. What next melon, are you gonna vote labor in the next election.



Ok then, tell us why the labor costings are wrong melon. Please provide a detailed costing on here. Since you done an analysis already it should be a simple task.



Who said it's 3 yrs? They have clearly mentioned 5 yrs.

I cant provide a detailed costing. It isnt my information to provide. All I can say is Ive seen a costing from a Telco. I worked with them to cost it. And its more than 43 billion.

LU is all about getting a rise out of the nongs. And I still stand by what Ive always said - I think its ill thought policy and although the potential is there, I dont believe the government can deliver it in their time frame and budget. They are bullshitting you and me.

On voting Labor....are you mad?

[Rocky Rhodes]

I'm not questioning your maths Melon, but if your estimates were even half right the Indies would have made a huge song and dance about it as they have been briefed by treasury on the cost of the NBN.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1225914507624

As I said earlier, the build is estimated to cost taxpayers around 26bill with the rest made up from telco's and ISP's signing on board with the NBN.

I'll ask you the same question about cost I ask JohnL earlier, will building the NBN be chearper now or if we wait 10 years?

Chook.

You should have posting that article on here chook for the likes of JohnL and kingbilly to read.

Here are some of it's key points:

"The NBN is clearly something that those three independent country MPs all understand delivers better healthcare in regional Australia; it delivers better education in regional Australia; it opens up small businesses across regional Australia to compete across Australia, and compete across the world."

As part of its pre-election economic update, Treasury said the government had set aside $18.3bn in the budget over the next four years for the NBN rollout.

But the cost is not added to the budget deficit because the government argues it will eventually make a commercial return, a conclusion backed by the McKinsey report but rejected by most market analysts.

What the libtards fail to understand here is that we are creating an asset, an asset where the government can make future returns on until the libtards sell it off like they sell off most things.

Not only that but it provides 25,000 jobs over the next 8 yrs. See labor are creating jobs and stimulating the economy. Thank farg the libtards didn't get in, all they would have done is cut public service jobs hence unemployment up.

[Rocky Rhodes]

I cant provide a detailed costing. It isnt my information to provide. All I can say is Ive seen a costing from a Telco. I worked with them to cost it. And its more than 43 billion.

LU is all about getting a rise out of the nongs. And I still stand by what Ive always said - I think its ill thought policy and although the potential is there, I dont believe the government can deliver it in their time frame and budget. They are bullshitting you and me.

On voting Labor....are you mad?

And yet you expect labor to provide them. You can't provide details because it's obvious you made it up. You libtards have a habit of telling porkies.

You don't even know the time frames (you said 3 yrs when it's 5) so no wonder you are confused.

[Guest]

Just as well you were not around in the very early 1900's because you would be complaining about introducing electricity to houses. Gee, why supply electricity to the country folk when they can use lanterns or candles etc it's too expensive blah blah blah. Same principle here..

Or if this was 1990 instead of 2010, gee why do we need more than 1 MB of ram in a computer, it's more than sufficient lol

Farg you libtards are seriously backwards, no ability to think of future requirements or needs. Time to "move forwards"

And by the way, not everyone living outside the cities are farmers.

Do you understand the different methods a PC uses versus the transmission of data? They are completely different.

I am sorry if you think that this is a politcal arguement from my end, it is not. Who says I voted for Liberal anyways? I am assuming that whatever political party you voted for, you are behind them 100%, no questions asked, whatever they decide you are happy with? You are the type of voter every party cries out for. Hell, even those that work within the party ranks don't agree on everything that the party puts forward.

Thanks for the clarification on the those that live out of the cities but I happen to know for a fact that if you live outside of the city boundary that you are a farmer. There is nothing else but famers out there. I mean what else is there????

[Rocky Rhodes]

Do you understand the different methods a PC uses versus the transmission of data? They are completely different.

I am sorry if you think that this is a politcal arguement from my end, it is not. Who says I voted for Liberal anyways? I am assuming that whatever political party you voted for, you are behind them 100%, no questions asked, whatever they decide you are happy with? You are the type of voter every party cries out for. Hell, even those that work within the party ranks don't agree on everything that the party puts forward.

Thanks for the clarification on the those that live out of the cities but I happen to know for a fact that if you live outside of the city boundary that you are a farmer. There is nothing else but famers out there. I mean what else is there????

I clearly said it's the same principle. The principle of not seeing future requirements and thinking todays demands are good enough. I used the PC as an example, surely that is obvious.

I am assuming that whatever political party you voted for, you are behind them 100%

I've not said anywhere that i've 100% happy with my party. I chose the best option, not the perfect option. There are things that i don't agreed with but i believe i voted for the better alternative based on party's policies.

I happen to know for a fact that if you live outside of the city boundary that you are a farmer.

lol surely you can't be serious.

Let's look at say a country town like wagga wagga. Shite they have shops.. they have schools.....they might even have doctors and a hospital.. or a church or two..or....

What about miners. Are they farmers too?

[Guest]

Let's look at say a country town like wagga wagga. Shite they have shops.. they have schools.....they might even have doctors and a hospital.. or a church or two..or....

What about miners. Are they farmers too?

All the people that work in the shops, the schools, the miners, etc, etc are farmers. That is obvious.