Australians are as gullibly stupid as Americans!

[ism22]

But what really makes Australians stupid is the fact we are the only country to vote in a govt Whose NO 1 policy at that election was a new tax the GST

But we didn't vote for the GST, we voted for the guy who said:

There's no way that GST will ever be part of our policy... Never ever. It's dead.

He lost the by-election election (caused by his about turn on the issue), except scraped ahead because he told everybody to put One Nation above the ALP on the ballot papers. One Nation got a few seats and pushed the Libs over the line with their preferences. Howard and Abbott then crucified One Nation when people started turning against Pauline Hanson. Of note this is the one time when Costello showed some balls!! For the next decade he took a back seat, and is now a sore loser who never had the support or the balls to be a leader.

Howard then became one of our most popular prime ministers, with a reputation for being up front about everything. Why? Because peopled were fools and thought he was honest... until interest rates started going up...

---

Truth? ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!! ALL WILL DO ANYTHING, SO LONG AS IT WINS THEM VOTES!!

I'm sick of Abbott complaining that the ALP only won because they caved in to the demands of the Greens and independents. Abbott caved in to the demands of Pauline Hanson...

Not saying either side's better/worse... just both sides will do whatever it takes to get votes. Who do I think is stupid?

1) People who think the Libs are excellent economic managers and the ALP always gets us into dept, expands the public service and spends more.
2) People who think that the ALP is better for giving people rights at work and improving public services such as hospitals and schools
3) People who think the Greens are morally clean and would have us living in a richer, greener world that's all perfect.
4) People who think independents will have good discussions and be moral indicators, rather than simply digging their heels in over small, irrelevant issues that nobody cares about.
5) Extremists with bullsh!t opinions who vote for stupid reasons.
6) Souffs fans who just vote for the Greens/Clover Moore because they think it'll give them their land back and make their dole cheques fatter.

[Guest]

Who do I think is stupid?

1) People who think the Libs are excellent economic managers and the ALP always gets us into dept, expands the public service and spends more.
2) People who think that the ALP is better for giving people rights at work and improving public services such as hospitals and schools
3) People who think the Greens are morally clean and would have us living in a richer, greener world that's all perfect.
4) People who think independents will have good discussions and be moral indicators, rather than simply digging their heels in over small, irrelevant issues that nobody cares about.
5) Extremists with bullsh!t opinions who vote for stupid reasons.
6) Souffs fans who just vote for the Greens/Clover Moore because they think it'll give them their land back and make their dole cheques fatter.

So who's not stupid?

[ism22]

So who's not stupid?

Those who are not indoctrinated by political parties and populist views portrayed by the media.

... I'm pretty well just attacking everybody and muck raking though

[Guest]

But we didn't vote for the GST, we voted for the guy who said:

From memory Labor were 52.5% on a two-party preferred basis. Howard rushed the GST through before the newly elected senate with a more dominant labor presence was convened. And the (un)democratic party leader ordered all of the (un)democratic party members to vote unanimously for the GST or face execution.

So you are correct. We didn't vote for the GST. It was only a bastardisation of the democratic process which got it through, and it was thankfully the death of the (un)democratic party.

[Rocky Rhodes]

BHP pay company tax isn't that a profits tax in itself?

No, that's just a tax and a very low one at that. Only 13% in fact when the average corpoate tax is 30%.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/minin...0523-w3gg.html

Mining companies pay only 13% tax: Gillard
May 23, 2010


The federal government has opened a new front of attack against miners in the fight over the proposed resource rent tax, saying multinationals such as BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto pay just 13 per cent tax.

The tactic comes as a new political party prepares to register in Western Australia to fight for miners' interest.

Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the low effective company tax rate proves big mining companies can afford to pay more.
Advertisement: Story continues below

"These are the cold, hard facts - the truth," she told the Nine Network.

Domestic mining companies pay an effective company tax rate of just 17 per cent, Ms Gillard said.

"For the overseas companies, the multinationals, (it's) around 13 per cent.

"This is not a fair share and that's why we're moving to introduce the resources super-profits tax."

Ms Gillard admits the stoush over Labor's proposed 40 per cent tax on super-profits had become "fast and furious".

But she wants the community to be sceptical of the "fear campaign" being run by the miners, who have said the new tax could kill the industry, driving investment and jobs offshore.

"We'll keep having the debate," Ms Gillard said. "We're determined to get this done."

But the deputy prime minister admitted the resource rent tax introduced on the petroleum sector 25 years ago was "different" to the federal government's proposed super-profits tax.

Labor has been using the historical example to reject mining companies' doom and gloom claims. The government says similar arguments were put in the mid-1980s but the petroleum industry did not collapse.

But today Ms Gillard conceded the super-profits tax is different.

"It's got different design features," she said. "But the point remains the same. When that tax was introduced 25 years ago the petroleum industry didn't jump up and down and go 'Yipee',`Fantastic'."

But it had adjusted and gone on to thrive, she said.

Treasurer Wayne Swan used independent analysis included in the Henry tax review to argue "ordinary workers" were getting ripped off by the likes of BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto.

"In Australia, wholly-domestic mining companies paid an effective tax rate of only 17 per cent and multinational mining companies paid an effective tax rate of only 13 per cent," Mr Swan said in his latest economic note.

"Both (are) dramatically below the headline company tax rate of 30 per cent."

By contrast, domestic manufacturers paid 25 cents of company tax for each dollar earned, while local retailers paid 27 cents in the dollar, during the period 2003 to 2007.

An average worker pays 30 per cent tax on every dollar earned above $35,000. Wealthier Australians pay income tax of up to 45 per cent.

"An ordinary worker who earns an extra dollar through their hard work pays higher tax, but a mining company that earns massive amounts pays the same flat, low rate of company tax," Mr Swan said. "That's simply not fair."

Mr Swan insisted the Rudd government wouldn't buckle to a scare campaign by vested interests.

"Nobody should doubt the government's resolve to make sure the community gets a fair share of the mineral resources that belong to the Australian people, not the mining companies," he said.

The treasurer stressed the resource super profits tax was effectively replacing royalties. Companies will get them refunded under the new regime.

Therefore, it was a "myth" to suggest the super profits tax was a triple tax on mining - coming on top of royalties and company tax, Mr Swan said.

To suggest miners should get to dig up non-renewable resources for free just because they paid company tax defied common sense, he said.

The government also rejected suggestions its new tax could increase the price of everyday goods and services.

It "should not" affect the prices of gas and coal, and therefore electricity, Mr Swan insisted.

"And modelling shows our tax reform package - including the RSPT and our cuts to company tax - will actually reduce the price of food and housing over time by making our economy more competitive."

[Rocky Rhodes]

Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

So do you eat coal or iron ore? Actually mining destroys the hand that feeds, i.e. farmers lands. Yep 13% or 17% is really feeding us, feeding us scraps. And in return the coal miners get black lung.

[Rocky Rhodes]

Unfortunately its not just capitalism, every form of society has people clammering for power and that always involves lies and deceite. Oh and lets not forget incompetence.
That comment is certainly no justification, but what is the alternative ?

Heres and interesting example, I work for quite a large international company. They screamed "woe is us" during the GFC and while the US arm (and to a smaller extent the European) suffered a bit, the company didn't tell many people about the millions they made playing the stock market betting on the GFC. And the Australian branch did fine during that period.

But now they Australian section is crying poor and because of the nature of the business I am very suspicious and think we are not being told the truth and/or the level of incompetence of middle management is well over average.

I also think that in Australia the "GFC" was used in many companies as an excuse to treat staff like cattle and excrement, without really having the problems that were experienced overseas (this was the point I was tryign to make earlier in this thread but problably didn't do wwvery well).

Do I think this is capitalism at its finest, no I think its more a case of
f$%kwits at large

The alternative to pure capitalism is a nice balance between capitalism and socialism which australia once had when we were once know as the lucky country. That's true competition and under socialism the profits stay within the country to benefit us. Most of capitalisms profits go offshore so no wonder we have a trillion dollar GDP debt.

Do I think this is capitalism at its finest, no I think its more a case of
f$%kwits at large

Capitalism produces more fwits that ever because there is no accountability under capitalism.

[Rocky Rhodes]

Disagree with both of you. Melon, you are the liberal equivalent of a blind-faith religious nutter. Like the Howard government had nothing to do with the asset inflation, increase in foreign debt, inflation, diversion of resources to the mining sector, etc.

The libs shifted government debt to a much larger private debt of over 50% of GDP. They pat themselves on the back for getting rid of government debt ignorantly believing private debt is not their problem. But when the debt cash cow can no longer be milked, consumers stop spending, and the economy tanks. And as demonstration by every western government in the world the government ends up having to underwrite the private debt to ensure banking stability.

Many claps to the liberal government for getting the entire nation into unsustainable debt.... but at least we have a better quality of life and lots of infrastructure to show for it.... oh hang on..

Well said dice, all your post have pretty much been spot on.

Lib voters are simpleton voters who cannot see the whole picture and only think government debt is important. A Government surplus doesn't stimulate the economy (GDP) hence there is a trade off. Thank fark that stimulus package got us thru the global recession.

[Rocky Rhodes]

=novice chook;101160]Yes, just a pity that many in NSW can't afford the power bills to run them.

After O'Fatty gets into power and fully privatises the rest of the power then watch the prices rise. Oh the irony alright, only in opposition he's totally against it yet watch and learn when he sells it off.

I just don't understand why the current government is so keen to club the mining industry with additional taxes, whilst every other industry appears to be exempt.

Average corporate tax is 30%, Multi-nationals pay only 13% and national miners only 17%. You do the math.

Surely the mining industry can't be the only one raking it in?? My suspicion is that it's just the easiest target for a lazy government who can't be bothered making some tough decisions.

lol.@ easy target. Taking on the multinationals takes huge guts. Sorry novice but that's moronic.

[Guest]

Sorry Chook but I can't agree with extra taxes on an industry just because it is successful. Especially when the money is being given to a government which has shown it has no clue when it comes to spending money wisely.

The current government will literally simply piss the extra funds up against the wall like 17 year olds at schoolies.

No meaningful infrastucture will be built unles you count a few more detention centres as such.


NC

Fair call NC. We'll agree to disagree.

Chook.

[melon....]

The alternative to pure capitalism is a nice balance between capitalism and socialism which australia once had when we were once know as the lucky country. That's true competition and under socialism the profits stay within the country to benefit us. Most of capitalisms profits go offshore so no wonder we have a trillion dollar GDP debt.



Capitalism produces more fwits that ever because there is no accountability under capitalism.

When was that Rocky? Post War immigration? The 50s and 60s? When did it end? With Gough and Al Grasby's ridiculous Multicultural focus? With Hawke and Keating? When were we known as the Lucky Country?

[novice chook]

After O'Fatty gets into power and fully privatises the rest of the power then watch the prices rise. Oh the irony alright, only in opposition he's totally against it yet watch and learn when he sells it off.




Average corporate tax is 30%, Multi-nationals pay only 13% and national miners only 17%. You do the math.



lol.@ easy target. Taking on the multinationals takes huge guts. Sorry novice but that's moronic.

As Chook says, we'll agree to disagree. Your statement that the current government has huge guts did made me laugh though.

As to NSW, Labor's already farked the State right over multiple ways, so there's only limited additional damage the Libs can manage if (hopefully when) they're voted in.

Life would be boring if we were thought the same wouldn't it.


NC

[ism22]

Lib voters are simpleton voters who cannot see the whole picture and only think government debt is important. A Government surplus doesn't stimulate the economy (GDP) hence there is a trade off. Thank fark that stimulus package got us thru the global recession.

I'm sick of Abbott being such a negative bugger and causing unnecessary fear about whatever he can:
- Great big new tax...
- Turn back the boats...
- Pay off the debt...

There's the saying that the best way to put mud on a man is to tell people "I can't confirm whether a guy beat up his wife or not... so I wouldn't trust the facts about this issue..." Studies have shown that if you do that, most people will then believe that it's most likely that the guy is a wife beater.

I feel Abbott is the same...
- "I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN THANK THE STIMULUS PACKAGES OR NOT, BUT LOOK HOW MUCH THEY COST! I WOULDN'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT..."
- "99% OF SCIENTISTS BELIEVE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, BUT SOME DON'T... SO I CAN'T SAY WHETHER IT IS REAL OR NOT... WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ANY ACTION UNTIL NOBODY DENIES IT..."
- "I CAN'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS WILL BECOME TERRORISTS... SOME HAVE BEEN TERRORISTS THOUGH, SO I DON'T TRUST ANY UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE THAT NONE ARE TERRORISTS ..."

He just wastes time causing fear and confusion on clear cut issues, all for political gain. Consequently we haven't:
- Gotten over the fact that the ALP and Libs BOTH would have handed out stimulus packages (so whether or not they worked is a moot point)
- Introduced ANY action on climate change (good or bad)
- Stopped discussing whether or not we like people who practice Islam because there's lots of Aussies who do and they're not going away (just like bloody Christians, Buddhists... Jews.)

We are farked because we have a system where nothing gets done EVER, and this will probably never change. Life seems to go on however, and I'm sure most people in the world would love to be in the position we're in...

Maybe things aren't too bad?

[Kramer]

I'm sick of Abbott being such a negative bugger and causing unnecessary fear about whatever he can:
big new Great tax...- Turn back the boats...
- Pay off the debt...

There's the saying that the best way to put mud on a man is to tell people "I can't confirm whether a guy beat up his wife or not... so I wouldn't trust the facts about this issue..." Studies have shown that if you do that, most people will then believe that it's most likely that the guy is a wife beater.

I feel Abbott is the same...
- "I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN THANK THE STIMULUS PACKAGES OR NOT, BUT LOOK HOW MUCH THEY COST! I WOULDN'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT..."
- "99% OF SCIENTISTS BELIEVE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, BUT SOME DON'T... SO I CAN'T SAY WHETHER IT IS REAL OR NOT... WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ANY ACTION UNTIL NOBODY DENIES IT..."
- "I CAN'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS WILL BECOME TERRORISTS... SOME HAVE BEEN TERRORISTS THOUGH, SO I DON'T TRUST ANY UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE THAT NONE ARE TERRORISTS ..."

He just wastes time causing fear and confusion on clear cut issues, all for political gain. Consequently we haven't:
- Gotten over the fact that the ALP and Libs BOTH would have handed out stimulus packages (so whether or not they worked is a moot point)
- Introduced ANY action on climate change (good or bad)
- Stopped discussing whether or not we like people who practice Islam because there's lots of Aussies who do and they're not going away (just like bloody Christians, Buddhists... Jews.)

We are farked because we have a system where nothing gets done EVER, and this will probably never change. Life seems to go on however, and I'm sure most people in the world would love to be in the position we're in...

Maybe things aren't too bad?

And now for your enjoyment, may I present to you a great big new tax.
Thanks Joolya. Oh! and lets not forget Prime minister Bob Brown.,,Thanks Bob.

[Guest]

And now for your enjoyment, may I present to you a great big new tax.
Thanks Joolya. Oh! and lets not forget Prime minister Bob Brown.,,Thanks Bob.

Gessus it's funny reading the gullible lemmings repeat Abbotts bullshit, "oh it's a big new tax".

It's a price on carbon which is a price on pollution. Smart people will now invest in green technologies and carbon sinks. Stupid ones will whinge and whine like liberal party drones but pay anyway.

Chook.