Australians are as gullibly stupid as Americans!

[Guest]

As usual people have the person right but the facts wrong. John Howard is a good person to use as an analogy but not for the GST. He won the 2004 election without mentioning Work Choices but passed it when he had a majority in both houses.

When the green filth get the majority in the Senate then this will pass.

[Andrew Walker]

As usual people have the person right but the facts wrong. John Howard is a good person to use as an analogy but not for the GST. He won the 2004 election without mentioning Work Choices but passed it when he had a majority in both houses.

When the green filth get the majority in the Senate then this will pass.

Lets not forget the children overboard in 2001

[Guest]

As usual people have the person right but the facts wrong. John Howard is a good person to use as an analogy but not for the GST. He won the 2004 election without mentioning Work Choices but passed it when he had a majority in both houses.

When the green filth get the majority in the Senate then this will pass.

I completely forgot about 2004. The year Howard promised not to raise interest rates. The dumbass public actually believed him as though he had some sort of direct control over the RBA decisions or some magical policies to keep inflation in check.

If Chook added "ignorant" to the title he would be spot on.

[Guest]

Lets not forget the children overboard in 2001

I was using the correlation between legislation but I accept your addition.

Politicians lie, I accept that as I am not naive, but what Julia Gillard has done goes beyond mere lying. She has sold an entire party out just to be Prime Minister. Kevin Rudd was a lot of things, a control freak, quite possibly sociopathic, a liar but I think, deep down, underneath all that, he believed in Labor and what they should stand for.

Julia believes in herself.

If there was ever a person who defined self-interest, it's her.

[ism22]

...what Julia Gillard has done goes beyond mere lying. She has sold an entire party out just to be Prime Minister...

WTF are you talking about? Abbott did the same thing and there were no lies... Gillard told the public she thought Rudd was rubbish, so challenged him. She won, end of story.

Would you have voted Labor and loved the Labor party if Kevin stayed in power? Probably not...

Do I care? Definitely not...

---

Howard --> Nelson --> Turnbull --> Abbott... they'll keep Abbott for a while coz he did okay in the last election, but he'll falter one day (even if he becomes PM and has a successful run) and the process will go on.

People forget that you vote for a party. The people elected the ALP as government, not Kevin Rudd. Only people in Rudd's seat voted for Kevin Rudd! I voted for Malcolm Turnbull FWIW (because I'd never even heard of the ALP guy and was scared Turnbull might lose his seat after being betrayed by Abbott.)

In the words of John Winston Howard:

The people have spoken...

Rudd sooooo should have said that when he beat Howard...

[Guest]

WTF are you talking about? Abbott did the same thing and there were no lies... Gillard told the public she thought Rudd was rubbish, so challenged him. She won, end of story.

Would you have voted Labor and loved the Labor party if Kevin stayed in power? Probably not...

Do I care? Definitely not...

---

Howard --> Nelson --> Turnbull --> Abbott... they'll keep Abbott for a while coz he did okay in the last election, but he'll falter one day (even if he becomes PM and has a successful run) and the process will go on.

People forget that you vote for a party. The people elected the ALP as government, not Kevin Rudd. Only people in Rudd's seat voted for Kevin Rudd! I voted for Malcolm Turnbull FWIW (because I'd never even heard of the ALP guy and was scared Turnbull might lose his seat after being betrayed by Abbott.)

In the words of John Winston Howard:

The people have spoken...

Rudd sooooo should have said that when he beat Howard...

Talk about re writing history
Gillard publicly backed Rudd right to the end playing up the loyal deputy role whilst privately plotting for 12 months to knife him according too wikileaks

[Kramer]

This pretty much sums up the lot of them.......... Fairy joke.





I met a fairy today that said she would grant me one wish.

"I want to live forever," I said.

"Sorry," said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"

"Fine," I said, "then I want to die after Members of Parliament
get their heads out of their arses!"

"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.

[Guest]

Take heed pro-miners. High unemployment and high inflation is where the mining boom is destined to take us. Of course they wouldn't go as far as to say higher inflation = higher interest rates and mortgage defaults because we still want to maintain the illusion of our "safe" banks.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226013167028



As an aside, the Irish govt got hammered in the election on the weekend. This means Ireland will probably tell the EU to get f*rked with their plans of making the Irish tax-payer pay for bank's mistakes. Let's see how long it takes for everyone to realise the GFC aint over yet.

[Guest]

I look upon the GFC as a Hurricane, the first nose dive of the economy was the first part of the hurricane, we're in the eye now which is a relative calm and a seeming return to prosperity. When the next part of the storm hits, it'll be worse, much worse than what happened before.

Gosh, I sound like Glenn Beck.

[melon....]

Take heed pro-miners. High unemployment and high inflation is where the mining boom is destined to take us. Of course they wouldn't go as far as to say higher inflation = higher interest rates and mortgage defaults because we still want to maintain the illusion of our "safe" banks.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226013167028



As an aside, the Irish govt got hammered in the election on the weekend. This means Ireland will probably tell the EU to get f*rked with their plans of making the Irish tax-payer pay for bank's mistakes. Let's see how long it takes for everyone to realise the GFC aint over yet.

And ironically mining is teh only thing that keeps you and I working today.

[Guest]

We're screwed!

[melon....]

We're screwed!

I just have one qquestion for the Governmnet. How many degrees will this tax lower the Global temperature by. if the answer is Zero, then we dont need this tax.....simple.

As for Green Jobs......

http://www.versoeconomics.com/verso-0311B.pdf

The Economic Impact of Renewable Energy Policy
in Scotland and the UK
March 2011

Executive Summary
Verso Economics

Richard Marsh & Tom Miers Executive Summary

I. This report examines the costs and benefits of government policy to support the
renewable energy industry in Scotland and the UK. The Scottish Government in
particular is promoting the renewables sector as an economic opportunity, and the
purpose of this report is to assess whether this is justified. The report therefore does
not investigate measures designed to reduce carbon emissions directly, nor does it
consider the merits of renewable technology as part of the attempts to slow climate
change.

II. The report’s key finding is that for every job created in the UK in renewable
energy, 3.7 jobs are lost. In Scotland there is no net benefit from government
support for the sector, and probably a small net loss of jobs.

III. The lower level of job displacement in Scotland is because of the greater
concentration of renewable energy generation in Scotland. This means that
electricity consumers and UK taxpayers subsidised the Scottish industry by c
£330m in 2009/10 over and above subsidies paid for by Scottish taxpayers and
consumers. To the extent that the Scottish industry is a success, it is reliant on the
wider UK policy making framework, in particular the Renewables Obligation
Certificate (ROC) scheme.

IV. The main policy tool used to promote renewable energy generation is the
Renewables Obligation, which effectively raises the market price paid for electricity
from renewable sources. This scheme cost electricity consumers £1.1bn in the UK
and around £100m in Scotland in 2009/10. The UK government plans similar
schemes to promote renewable heat and renewable fuels
.
V. In addition, both the UK and Scottish Governments have introduced a wide range of
grants and subsidies for the renewables industry. These are estimated at £188m UK
wide and an additional £22m in Scotland in 2009/10. Further, an exemption from the
Climate Change Levy for renewable generation costs HMRC £77m UK wide and
£25m in Scotland in lost tax revenue.

VI. The renewable energy sector imposes other indirect costs on the economy, mainly
from its impact on the local environment and landscape. While there has been some
research into aspects of this, there is no conclusive data, so these costs are not
included in the calculations used in this report. In total, measurable policies to
promote renewable energy cost £1.4bn UK wide and £168m in Scotland in 2009/10. 2

VII. A number of studies have attempted to measure the wider impacts of such policies.
Research in Spain, Germany and by the EU suggests that net employment effects
are negative with the likely opportunity cost, or costs associated with higher energy
prices, outstripping the creation of green jobs. Many of these studies cite possible
localised benefits during the construction phase of renewable energy infrastructure
and the potential for longer term benefits if export markets can be established.

VIII. This report uses the Scottish Government’s own macroeconomic model for Scotland
to assess the impact of identified costs on jobs. A similar model was used by the
Scottish Government to measure the opportunity cost of the cut in VAT implemented
in 2008-09. Based on this, policy to promote renewable energy in the UK has an
opportunity cost of 10,000 direct jobs in 2009/10 and 1,200 jobs in Scotland.

IX. The economic benefits that derive from the renewable energy sector are hard to
assess because the industry is difficult to measure as a clearly-defined sector.
However, employment figures cited by those promoting renewable energy are often
greatly exaggerated, exceeding official employment figures covering the whole of the
energy sector.

X. Extrapolating from wider energy industry data, and comparing this to estimates from
government and industry bodies, total direct employment in renewable energy
generation can be estimated at 2,700 in the UK and 1,100 in Scotland in 2009/10.

XI. In conclusion, policy to promote the renewable electricity sector in both Scotland and
the UK is economically damaging. Government should not see this as an economic
opportunity, therefore, but should focus debate instead on whether these costs, and
the damage done to the environment, are worth the candle in terms of climate change
mitigation.

XII. In Scotland, it should be recognised that the industry is reliant on UK wide support.
Scottish policy making in isolation would be much more expensive. The Scottish
Government, like its counterparts in the rest of the UK, should establish much more
accurate figures on the extent of the industry to engender a more rational debate on
the subject

[supermario]

hold on, are we talking about the carbon tax or the mining tax??

[melon....]

hold on, are we talking about the carbon tax or the mining tax??

We are talking about A Mining Tax. But being a hot topic now that Labor cant make their surplus by taxing the miners, their only hope is to introduce a Carbon Tax so that they can meet their surplus promise and for no other reason. They desperately want to break teh mould of massive debt and waste, but theyll fail.

This example is a summary of what's happening to carbon Pricing and Markets and Green Economies around the world. They are failing.

And why is tis relevant to this thread? because for any Australian to accept a tax on carbon Dioxide is to quote Chook's Thread Title and be "Gullible".

We all know man cannot change climate. We all know that a tax will not change climate. It will change our lifestyle for the worse though.

To allow a Mining Tax or a Carbon tax is to be more than gullible. Its being completely idiotic.

[Guest]

I never thought that I would look upon Tony Abbott as a savior of anything, let alone of this country. He is the only thing standing between us and the worst economic disaster since the great depression.

I am convinced, finally, that Julia Gillard does not have the best interests of this nation within her mind. And that frightens me.

It's either that or that dipsomaniac Tony Windsor, who has hated the coalition since he was picked up for drunk driving in 1991 and the Nats dis-endorsed him has a coronary occlusion or Hematemesis gets him.

And all the while that smarmy, "mommy don't leave me" clown Malcolm Turnbull is out there whiteanting and trying to destabilize Abbott.

And he only wants a carbon tax (yes, a tax on a non-radioactive, non-toxic, non-pollutant) so his buddies at Macquarie bank can invest in the buying and selling of credits to buy Carbon Dioxide.

If the majority of the people in this country weren't laid back, dope smoking surfers then Julia and her destructive band would have gone the way of Hosni Mubarak by now. Maybe we should rope the Muslim Brotherhood in the help us, they've got a branch here in Sydney.