Australians are as gullibly stupid as Americans!

[Pass the Ball]

It doesn't say. But does it matter? These mining companies spew on about "caring about local jobs" yet do this to a local community.

Chook.

Well, if they are flying in from Indonesia sure, but if they are flying in and out from another Qld town that already has the infastructure it makes sense.

[Pass the Ball]

Moranbah has been home to many talented people, ranging from successful singers (Clint Boge), to professional football players such as Josh Hannay, Clinton Schifcofske, Travis Norton and Shane Marteene.

[Guest]

Well, if they are flying in from Indonesia sure, but if they are flying in and out from another Qld town that already has the infastructure it makes sense.

Mmm yeah suppose so. Although the people of the actual mining town seem a bit pissed about it.

Chook.

[crikey chris]

Sorry. I don't believe you. Your post is an exercise in cliche and no-sequitur. Not once in any of your posts have you detailed any sophisticated economic arguement ("Tax is bad" is the extent). You seem to think using words like communism means something. Judging by your avatar pic (is that your son?), bogan ville has been your uni

Mate believe what you want, and the avatar is not my son.

And it would help if you and other alarmists could correctly call co2 by it's correct name instead of the alarmist stunt of "filthy carbon". Every time I read "filthy carbon" it simply re-inforces the deceits that are being used to reduce Australia to an economic mess.

Julia tells us that not one coal mining job will be lost. But Bob Brown wants to kill the whole coal industry, while saying that alternate energy (solar & wind) can give us 25% of our current energy requirements - so how do we get the other 75% of our energy requirements? Who would you believe? Now Julia doesnt lie does she? We really should believe her lol.

And please tell by me how much you expect co2 to be reduced in the atmosphere by trading carbon credits?

And where are the reports from other countries who have already priced carbon - are scientists measuring how much carbon has been reduced? I have looked but can't find anything.

If co2 has such dire consequences, why is trading of credits acceptable when that doesn't actually reduce co2? It makes a mockery of the whole thing, imo. India and China would never undertake something as this to destroy their economy. India pays $1 per tonne. What a joke.

Bottom line is it still astounds me the duplicity easily justified by a clinically incompetent psyche....anything is OK as long as it furthers the ideology of the elitists in our democratic midst. Climate has changed since day dot, and it will continue. Humans have little to no effect on this. Its called nature.

I am not out to convince you, and nothing you have come up with has convinced me otherwise.

You believe, I don't. Its that simple.

[Guest]

Mate believe what you want, and the avatar is not my son.

And it would help if you and other alarmists could correctly call co2 by it's correct name instead of the alarmist stunt of "filthy carbon". Every time I read "filthy carbon" it simply re-inforces the deceits that are being used to reduce Australia to an economic mess.

Julia tells us that not one coal mining job will be lost. But Bob Brown wants to kill the whole coal industry, while saying that alternate energy (solar & wind) can give us 25% of our current energy requirements - so how do we get the other 75% of our energy requirements? Who would you believe? Now Julia doesnt lie does she? We really should believe her lol.

And please tell by me how much you expect co2 to be reduced in the atmosphere by trading carbon credits?

And where are the reports from other countries who have already priced carbon - are scientists measuring how much carbon has been reduced? I have looked but can't find anything.

If co2 has such dire consequences, why is trading of credits acceptable when that doesn't actually reduce co2? It makes a mockery of the whole thing, imo. India and China would never undertake something as this to destroy their economy. India pays $1 per tonne. What a joke.

Bottom line is it still astounds me the duplicity easily justified by a clinically incompetent psyche....anything is OK as long as it furthers the ideology of the elitists in our democratic midst. Climate has changed since day dot, and it will continue. Humans have little to no effect on this. Its called nature.

I am not out to convince you, and nothing you have come up with has convinced me otherwise.

You believe, I don't. Its that simple.

Your belief in man-made climate change is irrelevant, it is happnening, it is beyond reasonable doubt. You can of course chose to not believe it, just as you can chose not to believe passive smoking is harmful, or that the sun doesn't cause skin cancer, or that CFC's had no affect on the ozone layer. Wilful ignorance is a personal choice, but it matters not to the facts and the facts are man-made climate change is beyond resonable doubt.

It's interesting the selfishness and complete self centered nature of our modern society. Previous generations of Australian's sacrificed their very lives so that future genreations had the chance to live free from tyrrany and evil. Our modern society continues to demonstrate a wide spread selfish reluctance to sacrifice just a slice of our way of life, not our actual lives but just a bit of our current way of life for future generations.

I'd hate to imagine what our world would be like if those previous generations had our attitude?

Chook.

[crikey chris]

Your belief in man-made climate change is irrelevant, it is happnening, it is beyond reasonable doubt. You can of course chose to not believe it, just as you can chose not to believe passive smoking is harmful, or that the sun doesn't cause skin cancer, or that CFC's had no affect on the ozone layer. Wilful ignorance is a personal choice, but it matters not to the facts and the facts are man-made climate change is beyond resonable doubt.

It's interesting the selfishness and complete self centered nature of our modern society. Previous generations of Australian's sacrificed their very lives so that future genreations had the chance to live free from tyrrany and evil. Our modern society continues to demonstrate a wide spread selfish reluctance to sacrifice just a slice of our way of life, not our actual lives but just a bit of our current way of life for future generations.

I'd hate to imagine what our world would be like if those previous generations had our attitude?

Chook.

Mate, although we disagree on this topic, at least you are puting your personal reasons and points/opinions across in your posts. That other poster with "the plastic watch" as an avatar resorts to personal insults instead of stating his/her point of view. Calling other posters 'retards' is just a sign of childish behaviour, instead of expressing his or her opinion on the subject. Name calling proves nothing but ignorance.

This whole topic has polarized the community. Those that believe shock jocks/print media/internet blogs etc without independantly making up their own minds are just ignorant. At the end of the day, there are those that believe, and those that don't. Each of us has a right to express our opinions. Time will tell who is right or wrong. I have nothing against robust debate, just 'keyboard heroes' that cannot state their case without using childish antics.

On a different issue, your quote: "Previous generations of Australian's sacrificed their very lives so that future genreations had the chance to live free from tyrrany and evil." If this indeed did happen, this is absolutely disgraceful! Here is the link. http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nati...as_639439.html

[Guest]

Mate, although we disagree on this topic, at least you are puting your personal reasons and points/opinions across in your posts. That other poster with "the plastic watch" as an avatar resorts to personal insults instead of stating his/her point of view. Calling other posters 'retards' is just a sign of childish behaviour, instead of expressing his or her opinion on the subject. Name calling proves nothing but ignorance.

This whole topic has polarized the community. Those that believe shock jocks/print media/internet blogs etc without independantly making up their own minds are just ignorant. At the end of the day, there are those that believe, and those that don't. Each of us has a right to express our opinions. Time will tell who is right or wrong. I have nothing against robust debate, just 'keyboard heroes' that cannot state their case without using childish antics.

On a different issue, your quote: "Previous generations of Australian's sacrificed their very lives so that future genreations had the chance to live free from tyrrany and evil." If this indeed did happen, this is absolutely disgraceful! Here is the link. http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nati...as_639439.html

And although I'm a union man, I totally agree, that is disgraceful. That song is not a protest poster.

Chook.

[chook 56]

Interesting

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/worl...209-1rvwn.html

THE world's greatest snow-capped peaks, which run in a chain from the Himalayas to Tian Shan on the border of China and Kyrgyzstan, have lost no ice over the past decade, new research shows.

The discovery has stunned scientists, who had believed about 50 billion tonnes of meltwater were being shed each year and not being replaced by new snowfall.

The study is the first to survey all the world's ice caps and glaciers and was made possible by the use of satellite data. Overall, the contribution of melting ice outside the two largest caps, in Greenland and Antarctica, is much less than previously estimated, with the lack of ice-loss in the Himalayas and the other high peaks of Asia responsible for most of the discrepancy.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The melting of Himalayan glaciers caused controversy in 2009 when a report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change mistakenly stated the glaciers would disappear by 2035, instead of 2350.

However, the scientist who led the new work maintains that the melting of ice caps and glaciers around the world remains a serious concern. ''Our results and those of everyone else show we are losing a huge amount of water into the oceans every year,'' said Professor John Wahr, of the University of Colorado.

His team's study is published in the journal Nature.

The scientists point out that lower-altitude glaciers in the Asian mountain ranges are definitely melting.

Satellite images and reports confirm this.

But over the study period, from 2003 to 2010, enough ice was added to the peaks to compensate.

[Guest]

Climate Sceptic Scientist exposed as lobby group mouthpiece.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/cl...215-1t6yi.html

A PROMINENT Australian scientist has rejected as offensive any suggestion he is doing the bidding of a US climate-sceptic think tank that is paying him a monthly fee.

Confidential documents leaked from inside The Heartland Institute, a wealthy think tank based in Chicago and Washington, detail strategy and funding for an array of activities designed to spread doubt about climate change science, paid for by companies that have a financial interest in continuing to release greenhouse gases without government interference.

Among the recipients of funding is Professor Bob Carter of James Cook University, a geologist and marine researcher who spoke at the ''convoys of no confidence'' protests against the carbon price last year alongside the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, and writes columns for News Ltd newspapers.

The documents show Professor Carter receives a ''monthly payment'' of $US1667 ($1550) as part of a program to pay ''high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist [anthropogenic global warming] message''.

Professor Carter did not deny he was being paid by The Heartland Institute, but would not confirm the amount, or if the think tank expected anything in return for its money.

''That suggestion is silly and offensive - a kindergarten level argument,'' Professor Carter told the Herald.

''Institutions or organisations simply pay for services rendered - in the same way that an architect is paid for their work, so are scientists,'' he said. ''What they may make any payment to me for, I'm not discussing with anybody outside of my family.''

Altogether, more than $US20 million had been spent funding and co-ordinating the activities of climate sceptics and bloggers since 2007, the documents suggest.

Other cash recipients include Anthony Watts, the leading US climate sceptic blogger, who is to receive $US90,000 for his work this year. Programs slated for funding include new curriculum modules that teach science from a climate-sceptic perspective, to be sent to US schools.

The documents discuss strategy to ''keep opposing voices out'' of the media and co-ordinate efforts with other ''groups capable of rapidly

mobilising responses to new scientific findings, news stories, or unfavourable blog posts.''

The funding comes from 1800 donors, including many manufacturing and resources businesses, and also drug companies.

One anonymous donor has given a staggering $US8.6 million to the think tank since 2007.

The Heartland Institute did not respond to the Herald's questions about the content or veracity of the documents yesterday.

The documents were first published on a Canadian website, DeSmogBlog, which monitors the public relations efforts by some industry groups to discredit climate change science. ''An important message here is for the media to learn how to recognise this co-ordinated attack on science and to see through the PR pollution that Heartland and its network creates to cast doubt on climate change,'' said the website's executive director, Brendan DeMelle.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______

Bob Carter is a paid sock puppet of a lobby group funded by big oil...shock horror. It must be one of those massive coincidents that all climate sceptic scientists are in some way funded by industries with vested interests. /sarcasm

Chook.

[melon....]

Climate Sceptic Scientist exposed as lobby group mouthpiece.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/cl...215-1t6yi.html

A PROMINENT Australian scientist has rejected as offensive any suggestion he is doing the bidding of a US climate-sceptic think tank that is paying him a monthly fee.

Confidential documents leaked from inside The Heartland Institute, a wealthy think tank based in Chicago and Washington, detail strategy and funding for an array of activities designed to spread doubt about climate change science, paid for by companies that have a financial interest in continuing to release greenhouse gases without government interference.

Among the recipients of funding is Professor Bob Carter of James Cook University, a geologist and marine researcher who spoke at the ''convoys of no confidence'' protests against the carbon price last year alongside the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, and writes columns for News Ltd newspapers.

The documents show Professor Carter receives a ''monthly payment'' of $US1667 ($1550) as part of a program to pay ''high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist [anthropogenic global warming] message''.

Professor Carter did not deny he was being paid by The Heartland Institute, but would not confirm the amount, or if the think tank expected anything in return for its money.

''That suggestion is silly and offensive - a kindergarten level argument,'' Professor Carter told the Herald.

''Institutions or organisations simply pay for services rendered - in the same way that an architect is paid for their work, so are scientists,'' he said. ''What they may make any payment to me for, I'm not discussing with anybody outside of my family.''

Altogether, more than $US20 million had been spent funding and co-ordinating the activities of climate sceptics and bloggers since 2007, the documents suggest.

Other cash recipients include Anthony Watts, the leading US climate sceptic blogger, who is to receive $US90,000 for his work this year. Programs slated for funding include new curriculum modules that teach science from a climate-sceptic perspective, to be sent to US schools.

The documents discuss strategy to ''keep opposing voices out'' of the media and co-ordinate efforts with other ''groups capable of rapidly

mobilising responses to new scientific findings, news stories, or unfavourable blog posts.''

The funding comes from 1800 donors, including many manufacturing and resources businesses, and also drug companies.

One anonymous donor has given a staggering $US8.6 million to the think tank since 2007.

The Heartland Institute did not respond to the Herald's questions about the content or veracity of the documents yesterday.

The documents were first published on a Canadian website, DeSmogBlog, which monitors the public relations efforts by some industry groups to discredit climate change science. ''An important message here is for the media to learn how to recognise this co-ordinated attack on science and to see through the PR pollution that Heartland and its network creates to cast doubt on climate change,'' said the website's executive director, Brendan DeMelle.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______

Bob Carter is a paid sock puppet of a lobby group funded by big oil...shock horror. It must be one of those massive coincidents that all climate sceptic scientists are in some way funded by industries with vested interests. /sarcasm

Chook.

Both sides are playing this game of wealth redistribution. The East Anglia Uni Wiki leaks prves alot of teh Pro warmists scientists are bullshit artists and teh "settled" science is all fabricated crap.

We could do nothing about Climate Change - and the world wouldnt end. That much is certain.

How to steal billions - thats the real struggle.

[Guest]

Both sides are playing this game of wealth redistribution. The East Anglia Uni Wiki leaks prves alot of teh Pro warmists scientists are bullshit artists and teh "settled" science is all fabricated crap.

Rubbish Melon. 3 separate and indepependant inquiries into those leaked emails cleared all scientists of "bullshitting" in their research.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/sc...pagewanted=all
http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/...S0107/7080435/

The language of the emails was in dispute NOT their research or their findings. This is just another lie perpetrated by institutes like the Heartland centre and sock puppets like Bob Carter.

We could do nothing about Climate Change - and the world wouldnt end. That much is certain.

True, we could do nothing and the world will not end. Only our way of life will end that IS certain.

How to steal billions - thats the real struggle.

No that's just another lie perpetrated by Heartland and their ilk. Apart from Bob Carter, name me one scientist that has gotten rich from commenting on climate change melon?

Chook.

[Guest]

Here's a confidential memo from the Heartland Institute of Bullshit and Lies.

January 2012
Confidential Memo: 2012 Heartland Climate Strategy

Given the increasingly important role the Heartland Institute is playing in leading the fight to prevent the implementation of dangerous policy actions to address the supposed risks of global warming, it is useful to set priorities for our efforts in 2012. This document offers such a set of priorities. I propose that at this point it be kept confidential and only be distributed to a subset of Institute Board and senior staff. More details can be found in our 2012 Proposed Budget document and 2012 Fundraising Strategy memo. In 2012 our efforts will focus in the following
areas:

Increased climate project fundraising

Our climate work is attractive to flinders, especially our key Anonymous Donor (whose contribution dropped from $1,664,150 in 2010 to $979,000 in 2011 - about 20% of our total 2011 revenue). He has promised an increase in 2012 - see the 2011 Fourth Quarter Financial Report. We will also pursue additional support from the Charles G. Koch Foundation. They returned as a Heartland donor in 2011 with a contribution of $200,000. We expect to push up their level of support in 2012 and gain access to their network of philanthropists, if our focus continues to align with their interests. Other contributions will be pursued for this work, especially from corporations whose interests are threatened by climate policies.

Funded sock puppets.

Development of our "Global Warming Curriculum for K-12 Classrooms" project. Principals and teachers are heavily biased toward the alarmist perspective. To counter this we are considering launching an effort to develop alternative materials for K-12 classrooms. We are pursuing a proposal from Dr. David Wojick to produce a global warming curriculum for K-12 schools. Dr. Wojick is a consultant with the Office of Scientific and Technical Information at the U.S. Department of Energy in the area of information and communication science. His effort will focus on providing curriculum that shows that the topic of climate change is controversial and uncertain - two key points that are effective at dissuading teachers from teaching science.

Yeah can’t teach them kids science. My goodness they may end up knowing we’re telling lies.

We tentatively plan to pay Dr. Wojick $100,000 for 20 modules in 2012, with funding pledged by the Anonymous Donor.

Funding for parallel organizations.

Heartland is part of a growing network of groups working the climate issues, some of which we support financially. We will seek additional partnerships in 2012. At present we sponsor the NIPCC to undermine the official United Nation's IPCC reports and paid a team of writers $388,000 in 2011 to work on a series of editions of Climate Change Reconsidered.

At least they admit their duplicity in trying to undermine, not counter, the claims of the IPCC.

Expenses will be about the same in 2012. NIPCC is currently funded by two gifts a year from two foundations, both of them requesting anonymity. Another $88,000 is earmarked this year for Heartland staff, incremental expenses, and overhead for editing, expense reimbursement for the authors, and
marketing. –

Funding for selected individuals outside of Heartland.

Our current budget includes funding for high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist AGW message. At the moment, this funding goes primarily to Craig Idso ($11,600 per month), Fred Singer ($5,000 per month, plus expenses), Robert Carter ($1,667 per month), and a number of other individuals, but we will consider expanding it, if funding can be found.

Expanded climate communications

Heartland plays an important role in climate communications, especially through our in-house experts (e.g., Taylor) through his Forbes blog and related high profile outlets, our conferences, and through coordination with external networks (such as WUWT and other groups capable of rapidly mobilizing responses to new scientific findings, news stories, or unfavorable blog posts). Efforts at places such as Forbes are especially important now that they have begun to allow highprofile climate scientists (such as Gleick) to post warmist science essays that counter our own. This influential audience has usually been reliably anti-climate and it is important to keep opposing voices out.

Oh yeah, can’t have any dissenting voices countering Heartlands bullshit.

Efforts might also include cultivating more neutral voices with big audiences (such as Revkin at DotEarth/NYTimes, who has a well-known antipathy for some of the more extreme AGW communicators such as Rornm, Trenberth, and Hansen) or Curry (who has become popular with our supporters). AVe have also pledged to help raise around $90,000 in 2012 for Anthony Watts to help him create a new website to track temperature station data. Finally, we will consider expanding these efforts further, or developing new ones, if funding can be obtained.

Exposed.

Chook.

[Guest]

I'm of the opinion that with the ice age that is, frankly, overdue that a bit of warming of the planet wouldn't go astray.

But then I always believed my University Lecturer that stated the whole thing worked thusly.

1. A planet warms up, melts the ice caps.

2. Water covers the land, thus cooling the planet.

3. Core temperature drops low enough that ice covers most of the land and water. I think it's only some tropical areas that don't get cover.

4. Temperature eventually goes up again, melts ice, which retreats to highest mountains and the like and any animals that survived the ice age can thrive again.

It probably won't be anyone here that is involved in the next one, maybe your grandchildren. Or their sons and daughters.

[Guest]

It will always be the media doing the talking, that's why I referred too Hadley and Jones! But it's not the talking that's the problem, it's the listening that's the issue here. The Australian public has become far too stupid to think for themselves and they can't see the truth for the media bullshit.

One crucial fact throughout this whole debate was never discussed or denied and that was the fact the miners weren't making "super" profits. Of course they are making super profits they just didn't want to pay an increase in tax on that super profit.

The Libs are in bed with the bloody indusry and Labor are now too farking scared to really tax the industry as it should be taxed, heavily! I hate gutless governments.

I can't wait to hear from Andrew "I'm a farking billionare Twiggy" Forest again crying poor with Allan "I'll suck mining cock for money" Jones saying "there there Twiggy I'll get those bwig bwad labor pollies for ya".

Australia needs to wake the fark up and take notice that they are being systematically farked over by pathetic government in bed with big business. Just like America.

Chook.

Been going on since the days of globalization, started here by a labor party with Keating at the helm. most Australians understand exactly what's going on but protesters are bashed by the police. Got a remedy for the idiots of Australia Chook ?

[Guest]

Been going on since the days of globalization, started here by a labor party with Keating at the helm. most Australians understand exactly what's going on but protesters are bashed by the police. Got a remedy for the idiots of Australia Chook ?

The Gonski report is a start. The Libs shredded public school funding in favour of their upper class private schools during Howard the Coward years as they believed it would produce more convserative voters long term. I kid you not. The Libs under the unflushable turd wanted to use school funding to conduct their own form of social engineering.

I'd also strengthen media and broadcast laws and make radios and papers, the corporations that own them, the mouthpieces and even the opionists that pass as journalists these days, 100% libel for every farking word they write, say or permit to be used through their medium. The fact that Andrew Bolt, Allan Jones, Ray Hadley or that moronic fraud Monckton can broadcast outright lies is a travesty of democracy.

I would also enact laws that would abolish all political parties, affiliations, coalitions etc. Nowehere in the Australian constitution does it state we vote for a political party. All members of parliment must accept they enter parliemnt free of any and all influences and persuassions so when they vote on legislation, they vote based on what is best for their constiuents and the common good of the Australian people not what is best for their political party.

I would lower the voting age to 16 so that the young take more responsbility for shaping their future. And I would remove mandatory voting for anyone over 50 as most over that age don't give a shit anymore anyway and feel they have done enough.

That's just for starters.

Chook.