Sad day for Australian Democracy

[Guest]

Rant all you want but to even consider the country is f**ked up shows you too are an ignorant fool

How retarded to call someone ignorant when you cant see past your own retina. Australia is dying. This current govt is making a good of job of killing it off thanks to being the Greens bitch.

[crikey chris]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one, the trouble with yours Chris is that it's not based on one single fact, just rhetoric.

Apart from repeating verbatim what Australia's queen of ignorance and stupidity (Allan Jones) says, do you know anything about the carbon tax Chris? Anything at all?

Chook.

Mate, I thought you would be the first to bite.
We probably agree on most topics, except for politics.

Seriously, what I mainly object to with the Carbon Tax is, Australian taxpayer dollars (yes, our hard earned) going overseas to U.N. , IMF and etc. Wealth distribution at it's best. Sounds like an elaborate 'money laundering scheme', and will only give money to the scammers with very little reduction in pollution. As a country, we are already very generous with our foreign aid. Why should we cripple our economy, when at the end of the day, if there is any temperature change or reduction in co2 levels, it will be smaller than a bee's dick. Until China, USA and India get fair dincum about this topic, it will never succeed. India has a price on carbon of about $1aud per tonne, Gillard's starts at $23 per tonne Lol.
And with all the financial stuff-ups this govt has presided over, I just don't trust her. Swanny is even more incompetent! The public sector will increase dramaticaly trying to implement the scheme. All aboard the gravy train Lol.

I do not listen to Jones/Hadley/Bolt etc, and am not a fan of the 2gb mafia. Occasionly catch Ross Greenwood at nights to get my financial/business fix for the day. I make my own assessments on the topics of the day. When I am in my office, ABC24 is on in the background, even catch Questiontime, when both sides of politics act like five year olds Lol.

This whole topic will polerise people.
Some agree, some disagree.

[crikey chris]

and yet we are the envy of the western world.

you truly are on ignorant knobhead Cookey Chris.

Politicians, economists and scientists around the world, not everyone one but the vast majority all agree that an emissions trading scheme, cap n trade call it what you want is the best solution to reduce carbon emissions and encourage ' greener ' forms of energy. Fark me even the Chinese are moving towards it with the province of Guandong which is one of the most heavily industrialised parts of China is bringing in its scheme in 2013.

What's with the name calling mate? Cannot have a sensible discussion/debate?

The Nigerian chain letters have some new competition. Let the dodgy carbon dioxide scam begin.
The Prince of Nigeria needs to transfer $15mil ........ Lol.

[crikey chris]

Just a couple of questions.

1. It's designed to reduce the emissions of Carbon Dioxide...a plant food right?

2. When this "toxic tax" comes in next year, how much will the temperature of the planet drop?

3. Will it happen straight away or 1000 years from now?

4. Will this tax also stop Orica (and other companies) releasing Hexavalent chromium and related gases?

If anyone who advocates this plan that will either save the planet or destroy what's left of our economy can answer those, I would be very grateful.

John, I don't expect your questions to be answered.

There is nothing good or positive about a tax on the air we breathe. Yep, lets tax 'plant food', which without, humans don't exist.

Hasn't it always been an off-the-cuff remark, "wait 'til the Government finds a way to tax the air we breathe"...well our little socialist Fabian and her filthy Green friends in Canberra have found a way. And actually found enough fools to support it. Look at the smirks around the room with the laughing, cheering and back slapping when they actually had enough gullibles to put their hand up in support. The GetUp crew provided the dial-a-crowd support circus.

The Green filth is the cancer of the current political hierarchy!

What a pathetic and sad current political climate we live in.

[Guest]

I just want to clarify, the only talkback I listen to is John Laws. And he's for the Carbon Dioxide tax.

I listen to Podcasts from the US mostly.

With Hollywood BabbleOn being a favourite.

[Guest]

Mate, I thought you would be the first to bite.
We probably agree on most topics, except for politics.

Seriously, what I mainly object to with the Carbon Tax is, Australian taxpayer dollars (yes, our hard earned) going overseas to U.N. , IMF and etc. Wealth distribution at it's best. Sounds like an elaborate 'money laundering scheme', and will only give money to the scammers with very little reduction in pollution. As a country, we are already very generous with our foreign aid. Why should we cripple our economy, when at the end of the day, if there is any temperature change or reduction in co2 levels, it will be smaller than a bee's dick. Until China, USA and India get fair dincum about this topic, it will never succeed. India has a price on carbon of about $1aud per tonne, Gillard's starts at $23 per tonne Lol.
And with all the financial stuff-ups this govt has presided over, I just don't trust her. Swanny is even more incompetent! The public sector will increase dramaticaly trying to implement the scheme. All aboard the gravy train Lol.

I do not listen to Jones/Hadley/Bolt etc, and am not a fan of the 2gb mafia. Occasionly catch Ross Greenwood at nights to get my financial/business fix for the day. I make my own assessments on the topics of the day. When I am in my office, ABC24 is on in the background, even catch Questiontime, when both sides of politics act like five year olds Lol.

This whole topic will polerise people.
Some agree, some disagree.

So in other words Chris you know very little about the tax itself or the legislation that accompanied it through the parliment?

18 pieces of legislation passed as part of the carbon tax law. I suggest all you critics repeating Blabbotts bullshit actually read and understand what has been enacted and what the benefits will be. But to answer John's heavily loaded and strawman questions:

1 - Yes it's a plant food, but in concentrated form is toxic and poisonous even to plants.
2 - None as the tax won't have removed enough carbon emissions to make a measurable difference when it's enacted.
3 - The tax will reduce carbon emissions over years as will the ETS that come as part of this legislation. It will also reduce our reliance on fossil fuels over coming years.
4 - No, it won't stop any company releasing toxic gases into the air, but it will at last make them pay for it!

I have a couple fo questions for the critics.

1 - Do you advocate the polluters pay for their polluting ala the carbon tax or Australian taxpayers pay for their polluting ala Blabbotts direct action?
2 - Should we continue to maintain our reliance on fossils fuels and remain at the mercy of the oil nations or begin making fundemental changes to our economy to remove that reliance?
3 - Should we start making significant investment in renewable energy or remain behind the rest of the developed world?
4 - Should we make smart use the vast tracks of land we have in this country for wind and solar farms or leave them as "bush"?
5 - Why should Australia wait for the rest of the world to act when we can afford to make these changes now and lead the world?

Chook.

[melon....]

So in other words Chris you know very little about the tax itself or the legislation that accompanied it through the parliment?

18 pieces of legislation passed as part of the carbon tax law. I suggest all you critics repeating Blabbotts bullshit actually read and understand what has been enacted and what the benefits will be. But to answer John's heavily loaded and strawman questions:

1 - Yes it's a plant food, but in concentrated form is toxic and poisonous even to plants.
2 - None as the tax won't have removed enough carbon emissions to make a measurable difference when it's enacted.
3 - The tax will reduce carbon emissions over years as will the ETS that come as part of this legislation. It will also reduce our reliance on fossil fuels over coming years.
4 - No, it won't stop any company releasing toxic gases into the air, but it will at last make them pay for it!

I have a couple fo questions for the critics.

1 - Do you advocate the polluters pay for their polluting ala the carbon tax or Australian taxpayers pay for their polluting ala Blabbotts direct action?
2 - Should we continue to maintain our reliance on fossils fuels and remain at the mercy of the oil nations or begin making fundemental changes to our economy to remove that reliance?
3 - Should we start making significant investment in renewable energy or remain behind the rest of the developed world?
4 - Should we make smart use the vast tracks of land we have in this country for wind and solar farms or leave them as "bush"?
5 - Why should Australia wait for the rest of the world to act when we can afford to make these changes now and lead the world?

Chook.

Chook,

Ill try and answer those.

1. I advocate polluter pays. Problem is im not a big polluter, and so I shouldnt be subjected to the bulk of the tax. The compensation for big polluters will be passed down under this government's implementation. That means I pay the bulk of the tax, which i shouldnt under the Labor Party's policy of "Big Polludas pay".

2. No we should can fossil fules over time. We have the worlds supply of uranium and Thorium. If we are serious wed be looking at the New Thorium "clean" reactors.

Wind and Solar do not work for base loads, and are millions of times more expensive at the moment.

3. We should catch up to the rest of the world, and build smart reactors.

4. Lets preserve our natural history. But lets use a tiny proportion of it, unlike Wind and solar, to build smart reactors.

5. We arent leading anyone. The world will notfollow down this path. Gillard will take your dollar to kill coal, but continue selling coal to China and India for decades to come.
We arent setting a precendent. We are setting ourselves up for major failure.

If anyone is serious about energy we need to start acting on Nuclear. The developments over the past 10 years and teh next will be astonishing and shadow Solar and Wind into oblivion as real options.

The labor part could gain some credibility as should the libs if they both start seriously investigating Nuclear.

So if im going to pay this tax, i will happily knowing its going into real research. Nucler, Geothermal - not pissing into teh wind and Solar (pardon the pun). The tax was sold as a lie. it was not sold as we must change our consumption habits. it was sold as "WE ARE DESTROYING THE PLANET BY CHANGING CLIMATE", which is garbage. And finally, even if yo agree with part of my response, and whether a tax like this has merut or not, the Australian Public were lied to. Massively....because this decision by the narrow viewed Labor party, and the Greens and Indies, will cost Australian Jobs in the short and medium terms. There's no magic fountain of Green jobs unless yo are a beuraucrat in a plush government office.

Now lets just say that all this Carbon Tax had 100% merit. The real problem, my problem with this is its been rammed down our throats by a Nanny State, undemocratic governmnet. Like the GST, a game changer, there should have been a referendum, a vote by all the people this will impact. And yo know why it didnt get the air it deserved.....it would have been unanimously voted down.

Now that wouldnt suit the Green agenda would it. If only it had to do with being green, instead of ripping off real wealth "to share it around". We arent a Socialist country and never will be. This is just a tragic chapter in our History under teh worst and weakest governmt assembly ever - on both sides.

The Greens can just **** off and live in Somalia with David Marr.

[Guest]

What's with the name calling mate? Cannot have a sensible discussion/debate?

The Nigerian chain letters have some new competition. Let the dodgy carbon dioxide scam begin.
The Prince of Nigeria needs to transfer $15mil ........ Lol.

Yeah fair enough - apologies for making it personal

[Guest]

Well we picked the right time for it.

Markets tumble as euro crisis goes critical

Colin Kruger
November 11, 2011 - 3:00AM

Advertisement
ANOTHER rout swept global stock markets yesterday as investors tried to come to grips with the implications of a euro collapse.

"The problem is, we've reached the domino phase, so it's not about Greece any more - it's Italy, and if Italy has a problem then France has a problem too," said Brian Battle, the vice president of trading at Performance Trust Capital Partners. "The hope that there would be a solution is now non-existent."

His domino theory may well apply to the global economy because the knock-on effects of a euro collapse would be felt even in healthy countries such as Australia.

Despite a fall in local unemployment yesterday to 5.2 per cent, economists expect a rate cut next month because of the European crisis.

''The market is fully pricing in a cut [in the cash rate] with events in Europe overwhelming domestic data,'' said an ICAP senior economist, Adam Carr.

British analysts believe the renewed turmoil in the euro zone is pointing to a deep recession in Europe.

''It's unavoidable that there will be an outright contraction in the fourth quarter of this year, and a 60 per cent to 70 per cent chance of another decline in the first quarter of next year,'' said Nick Parsons, head of strategy at National Australia Bank's London office.

''Things are about to get a lot worse than anyone is predicting,'' said Andrew Barnett in the LTG Goldrock FX Market report.

He predicted the Aussie dollar would be back to parity by the end of the month and US93¢ before Christmas as the next round of banking crises unfolds. ''Italy will be the next Greece and there will be another European banking crisis before Christmas,'' he said.

This is where the real significance for a healthy economy like Australia's comes into play.

Su-Lin Ong, senior economist at RBC Capital Markets, said Europe cannot avoid a recession, and ''the question now is just how deep it will be, and whether this is going to bleed over into the banking system, because that is more significant''.

''Increasingly there is a risk that it spills into the banking system and becomes an issue of credit and the lifeline of economies freezes up again. That's where the real concern is,'' she said.

The implications for local banks is clear. Commonwealth Bank told shareholders this week that overseas instability had the potential to place further pressure on wholesale funding costs. The bank sources nearly 40 per cent of funding for its loans from global markets.

Standard & Poor's downgraded Australian banks yesterday, on its so-called banking industry country risk assessment, or BICRA, for this very reason.

"In our view, weaknesses for the Australian banking sector are its material dependence on net external borrowings, which fund about 24 per cent of domestic customer loans," S&P said in a statement.

"These weaknesses are partly offset by a domestic debt capital market that can support the banking sector, and the government and central bank, whom we view as responsive and flexible to banks' funding needs."

The immediate impact of the euro zone shock was felt on the local market yesterday. Both major indices fell to their lowest in two months.

The benchmark S&P/ASX200 index was down 102 points, or 2.35 per cent, at 4244.1, while the broader All Ordinaries fell 98.9 points, or 2.24 per cent, to 4307.3.

The December share price index futures contract was 80 points lower at 4257 points.

But not everyone was sure that the carnage would continue today.

''A lot of people are expecting certain commentary could come out that could appease concerns,'' said the RBS Morgans private client adviser Trent Muller. He said there was the potential for Italy's Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, to resign today and for an easy transition to the next leader.

''If that occurs, one would assume markets will be a little bit more comfortable … and we'll get a global rally back to levels that we were at two or three days ago.''

The local fall was not as bad as on US sharemarkets, which are in the red for the year after falling more than 3 per cent yesterday morning.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 389.24 points to close at 11,780.94. The broad-based S&P 500 lost 46.82 points to 1229.10, and the Nasdaq fell 105.84 points (3.88 per cent) to 2621.65.

with agencies

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/business/marke...110-1n9iy.html

[chook 56]

Was talking to a customer this morning who has contact in the US money market. His info is the rock bottom has not been reached yet, but is fairly close.
Maybe we need to see the domino's tumble to get things back to base & then move on & upwards again?
There will be more debt written off & share market losses to achieve this.

Hope the world lenders have taken heed of the last decade re: irresponsible lending/security.

[Guest]

Chook,

Ill try and answer those.

1. I advocate polluter pays. Problem is im not a big polluter, and so I shouldnt be subjected to the bulk of the tax. The compensation for big polluters will be passed down under this government's implementation. That means I pay the bulk of the tax, which i shouldnt under the Labor Party's policy of "Big Polludas pay".

2. No we should can fossil fules over time. We have the worlds supply of uranium and Thorium. If we are serious wed be looking at the New Thorium "clean" reactors.

Wind and Solar do not work for base loads, and are millions of times more expensive at the moment.

3. We should catch up to the rest of the world, and build smart reactors.

4. Lets preserve our natural history. But lets use a tiny proportion of it, unlike Wind and solar, to build smart reactors.

5. We arent leading anyone. The world will notfollow down this path. Gillard will take your dollar to kill coal, but continue selling coal to China and India for decades to come.
We arent setting a precendent. We are setting ourselves up for major failure.

If anyone is serious about energy we need to start acting on Nuclear. The developments over the past 10 years and teh next will be astonishing and shadow Solar and Wind into oblivion as real options.

The labor part could gain some credibility as should the libs if they both start seriously investigating Nuclear.

So if im going to pay this tax, i will happily knowing its going into real research. Nucler, Geothermal - not pissing into teh wind and Solar (pardon the pun). The tax was sold as a lie. it was not sold as we must change our consumption habits. it was sold as "WE ARE DESTROYING THE PLANET BY CHANGING CLIMATE", which is garbage. And finally, even if yo agree with part of my response, and whether a tax like this has merut or not, the Australian Public were lied to. Massively....because this decision by the narrow viewed Labor party, and the Greens and Indies, will cost Australian Jobs in the short and medium terms. There's no magic fountain of Green jobs unless yo are a beuraucrat in a plush government office.

Now lets just say that all this Carbon Tax had 100% merit. The real problem, my problem with this is its been rammed down our throats by a Nanny State, undemocratic governmnet. Like the GST, a game changer, there should have been a referendum, a vote by all the people this will impact. And yo know why it didnt get the air it deserved.....it would have been unanimously voted down.

Now that wouldnt suit the Green agenda would it. If only it had to do with being green, instead of ripping off real wealth "to share it around". We arent a Socialist country and never will be. This is just a tragic chapter in our History under teh worst and weakest governmt assembly ever - on both sides.

The Greens can just **** off and live in Somalia with David Marr.

Melon, I am unsurprised to see a reasoned response from you, but you spoil it at the end with the "undemocratic" line. This minority government, which most people are unhappy about, is what our system of democracy delivers. It is, in fact, completely democratic. Just because you don't like the result, doesn't mean its unfair or undemocratic.

BTW, a referendum is only for consitutional reform.

[Guest]

Chook,

Ill try and answer those.

1. I advocate polluter pays. Problem is im not a big polluter, and so I shouldnt be subjected to the bulk of the tax. The compensation for big polluters will be passed down under this government's implementation. That means I pay the bulk of the tax, which i shouldnt under the Labor Party's policy of "Big Polludas pay".

2. No we should can fossil fules over time. We have the worlds supply of uranium and Thorium. If we are serious wed be looking at the New Thorium "clean" reactors.

Wind and Solar do not work for base loads, and are millions of times more expensive at the moment.

3. We should catch up to the rest of the world, and build smart reactors.

4. Lets preserve our natural history. But lets use a tiny proportion of it, unlike Wind and solar, to build smart reactors.

5. We arent leading anyone. The world will notfollow down this path. Gillard will take your dollar to kill coal, but continue selling coal to China and India for decades to come.
We arent setting a precendent. We are setting ourselves up for major failure.

If anyone is serious about energy we need to start acting on Nuclear. The developments over the past 10 years and teh next will be astonishing and shadow Solar and Wind into oblivion as real options.

The labor part could gain some credibility as should the libs if they both start seriously investigating Nuclear.

So if im going to pay this tax, i will happily knowing its going into real research. Nucler, Geothermal - not pissing into teh wind and Solar (pardon the pun). The tax was sold as a lie. it was not sold as we must change our consumption habits. it was sold as "WE ARE DESTROYING THE PLANET BY CHANGING CLIMATE", which is garbage. And finally, even if yo agree with part of my response, and whether a tax like this has merut or not, the Australian Public were lied to. Massively....because this decision by the narrow viewed Labor party, and the Greens and Indies, will cost Australian Jobs in the short and medium terms. There's no magic fountain of Green jobs unless yo are a beuraucrat in a plush government office.

Now lets just say that all this Carbon Tax had 100% merit. The real problem, my problem with this is its been rammed down our throats by a Nanny State, undemocratic governmnet. Like the GST, a game changer, there should have been a referendum, a vote by all the people this will impact. And yo know why it didnt get the air it deserved.....it would have been unanimously voted down.

Now that wouldnt suit the Green agenda would it. If only it had to do with being green, instead of ripping off real wealth "to share it around". We arent a Socialist country and never will be. This is just a tragic chapter in our History under teh worst and weakest governmt assembly ever - on both sides.

The Greens can just **** off and live in Somalia with David Marr.

You are a typical Australian espousing scientific findings of which you know nothing about.

[melon....]

You are a typical Australian espousing scientific findings of which you know nothing about.

Nice try the other night too dickhead. You couldnt help yourself...i win again.

[melon....]

Melon, I am unsurprised to see a reasoned response from you, but you spoil it at the end with the "undemocratic" line. This minority government, which most people are unhappy about, is what our system of democracy delivers. It is, in fact, completely democratic. Just because you don't like the result, doesn't mean its unfair or undemocratic.

BTW, a referendum is only for consitutional reform.

I stand corrected on referendum. An Election was where we should have taken this. Th egovernmnet isnt undemocratic in the way it was slected. Its undemocratic in the way it behaves.

She lied and scraped in, She tells the world and would hav egot slaughtered. See everyone bags Howard or Costello for being gutless....they took the GST to the people via an election. Labor didnt have teh stones to do that, because they choose to act like a socialist being in a democarcy. It doesnt mix well...without damages. Look at Greece.

[Guest]

Nice try the other night too dickhead. You couldnt help yourself...i win again.

Please refrain from personal attacks and stay on topic. I do not know what you are refering too.