Sad day for Australian Democracy

[Guest]

I stand corrected on referendum. An Election was where we should have taken this. Th egovernmnet isnt undemocratic in the way it was slected. Its undemocratic in the way it behaves.

She lied and scraped in, She tells the world and would hav egot slaughtered. See everyone bags Howard or Costello for being gutless....they took the GST to the people via an election. Labor didnt have teh stones to do that, because they choose to act like a socialist being in a democarcy. It doesnt mix well...without damages. Look at Greece.

From news.com.au from election eve....

JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term as part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.
In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.
"I don't rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism," she said of the next parliament. "I rule out a carbon tax."

http://www.news.com.au/features/fede...-1225907552000

She always said she would take action on carbon but would not introduce the tax. Problem was, she didn't get a majoriy government and therefore had to vary the policy as she did not have the lower house without Greens and Independents.

Again, the "lie" is at best massively overstated as she did not make the statements believing she would have to form minority government.

Action on carbon was always publicly on the agenda. If Australia wanted no action on carbon then they should have given Abbott the keys.

[melon....]

Please refrain from personal attacks and stay on topic. I do not know what you are refering too.

Yes you do Mr .hk Id love you to try that stunt again.

And I was on topic, until your obsession kicked in.

[melon....]

From news.com.au from election eve....

JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term as part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.
In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.
"I don't rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism," she said of the next parliament. "I rule out a carbon tax."

http://www.news.com.au/features/fede...-1225907552000

She always said she would take action on carbon but would not introduce the tax. Problem was, she didn't get a majoriy government and therefore had to vary the policy as she did not have the lower house without Greens and Independents.

Again, the "lie" is at best massively overstated as she did not make the statements believing she would have to form minority government.

Action on carbon was always publicly on the agenda. If Australia wanted no action on carbon then they should have given Abbott the keys.

Or maybe the public has woken up to the scam this really is. She said no goevrnment she led would introduce a tax. Thats the lie...not action on Carbon later on down the track.

There wont be any carbon scheme, with the Carbon markets collapsing world wide. There wont be any action. Just a tax, and here's the real reason....to chase a huge deficit that was created from so much waste. If the Greens have their way death taxes will follow. Inheritence taxes that will erode entire estates that may or may not have been built through hard work (thats not the issue here) are also in the pipeline. This is purely socialist wealth redistribution. They have blundered, wasted and mis managed. They need cash, a lot of it and quick. Tax on air and mining are the big tickets...and they STILL wont make surplus. Another misguided promise.

[Guest]

Or maybe the public has woken up to the scam this really is. She said no goevrnment she led would introduce a tax. Thats the lie...not action on Carbon later on down the track.

There wont be any carbon scheme, with the Carbon markets collapsing world wide. There wont be any action. Just a tax, and here's the real reason....to chase a huge deficit that was created from so much waste. If the Greens have their way death taxes will follow. Inheritence taxes that will erode entire estates that may or may not have been built through hard work (thats not the issue here) are also in the pipeline. This is purely socialist wealth redistribution. They have blundered, wasted and mis managed. They need cash, a lot of it and quick. Tax on air and mining are the big tickets...and they STILL wont make surplus. Another misguided promise.

Where is the call for inheritance taxes, I must have missed that.

I don't for a second believe that this is a revenue grab - it would have been electorially far easier for them to recant on the surplus than to push through the the carbon tax.

Interesting to note that you are also against the mining tax but that is a conversation for another day.

[Guest]

Or maybe the public has woken up to the scam this really is. She said no goevrnment she led would introduce a tax. Thats the lie...not action on Carbon later on down the track.

There wont be any carbon scheme, with the Carbon markets collapsing world wide. There wont be any action. Just a tax, and here's the real reason....to chase a huge deficit that was created from so much waste. If the Greens have their way death taxes will follow. Inheritence taxes that will erode entire estates that may or may not have been built through hard work (thats not the issue here) are also in the pipeline. This is purely socialist wealth redistribution. They have blundered, wasted and mis managed. They need cash, a lot of it and quick. Tax on air and mining are the big tickets...and they STILL wont make surplus. Another misguided promise.

When will you get it through your head melon, Australia is, has and will forever have socialist values. It is what Australian society is built upon, a fair go. Medicare, PBS, Superannuation, paid maternity leave, parental leave, holidays, TAX these are programs built upon socialist principles AND engrained within Australian way of life.

If you want to live in a purely capitalist country, piss off to your beloved America and rape the poor like your brethren the repuplicans. But stop your bloody whinging about "socialism" because you and your family reap the bloody benefits of it, just like the rest of us!

The miners can afford to "spread the wealth around". Not even you can argue that. And the polluters have accepted the carbon tax which is why the market never reacted when annoucned or when it passed the parliment.

What will happen is as a nation we'll have a little whinge, get bored with the subject and distracted by another of circus whoredasian.

Chook.

[Guest]

When will you get it through your head melon, Australia is, has and will forever have socialist values. It is what Australian society is built upon, a fair go. Medicare, PBS, Superannuation, paid maternity leave, parental leave, holidays, TAX these are programs built upon socialist principles AND engrained within Australian way of life.

If you want to live in a purely capitalist country, piss off to your beloved America and rape the poor like your brethren the repuplicans. But stop your bloody whinging about "socialism" because you and your family reap the bloody benefits of it, just like the rest of us!

The miners can afford to "spread the wealth around". Not even you can argue that. And the polluters have accepted the carbon tax which is why the market never reacted when annoucned or when it passed the parliment.

What will happen is as a nation we'll have a little whinge, get bored with the subject and distracted by another of circus whoredasian.

Chook.

As a great man once said "Taxation is the price of civilisation"

[stephenj]

i love living in a more progressive responsable country, bring on the mining tax now! a minority pm ms gillard has achieved more in her short 12 months than howards conservatives did in nearly 12 years!

[Guest]

Yes you do Mr .hk Id love you to try that stunt again.

And I was on topic, until your obsession kicked in.

Upon what scientific studies do you reject climate change? I still don't know what you are talking about. You know even less about politics and science than you do about sport.

[Rocky Rhodes]

=Henry Chinaski;165019]yet you wish to vote in a party whose own climate change policy is not endorsed by anyone, thats no one. Treasury has estimated that it will cost nearly double to the taxpayer

You are making false assumptions already. All i said is i won't be voting labor this time because of this tax scam. Do you realise there are others parties? And no i will never vote green. I can live with a liberal gov't for a term just to get rid of this destructive tax.

In effect under Abbotts scheme we the taxpayers will pay polluters to pollute less.

What is abbotts policy regarding this? All i'm aware of is that he will scap this tax. That is the solution i want, scrap this tax so that it won't completely destroy this country, our freedom and our values.

Not one economist or climate scientist does.

Do you know why there are few climate scientist sceptics on this. Because they are pressured and threatened into silence. That's what happens where there is power and control and trillions of dollars at stake.

[Rocky Rhodes]

=Chook;165133]So in other words Chris you know very little about the tax itself or the legislation that accompanied it through the parliment?

18 pieces of legislation passed as part of the carbon tax law. I suggest all you critics repeating Blabbotts bullshit actually read and understand what has been enacted and what the benefits will be. But to answer John's heavily loaded and strawman questions:

1 - Yes it's a plant food, but in concentrated form is toxic and poisonous even to plants.
2 - None as the tax won't have removed enough carbon emissions to make a measurable difference when it's enacted.
3 - The tax will reduce carbon emissions over years as will the ETS that come as part of this legislation. It will also reduce our reliance on fossil fuels over coming years.
4 - No, it won't stop any company releasing toxic gases into the air, but it will at last make them pay for it!

lol

Carbon dioxide is good for plants (food) but it's poisonous to them at the same time???

If that were the case then all our plants would be dead due to the poison hey!

Ridicious argument which shows you are completely clueless about the science. No wonder you fall for any scam that suits your agenda.

If you are gonna make up shiit at least make it believable.

[Rocky Rhodes]

http://www.nocarbontax.com.au/

10 top reasons why Carbon Tax is wrong and utterly pointless

It is a green ideological tax for social engineering under the guise of dangerous climate change. It is unnecessary, ineffective, and hugely damaging to Australian families and our industry.

1. Deceitful: Julia Gillard pledged before the election to not introduce a Carbon Tax. Our government must not be allowed to contemptuously disregard key pre-election pledges to not introduce contentious revolutionary schemes, if elections are to have any meaning.

2. Misleading: The Carbon Tax or Pollution Tax is a tax on a pure gas, carbon dioxide or CO2, not carbon soot or general pollution, as dishonestly implied by these terms. CO2 is not pollution and does not need to be reduced in the first place, it is a natural trace gas we all exhale and is needed by plants to grow, notwithstanding its greenhouse effect.

3. Unnecessary: Fear of dangerous Global Warming from man-made CO2 is dissipating with more recent scientific evidence and exposure of much bias, exaggeration of dangers and neglect of benefits of warming in existing scientific consensus. Any warming from CO2 is likely to be a harmless < 1 Deg Celsius by 2100. Higher predictions are only computer model speculations, arguably due to the modeller’s confessed ignorance of natural climate cycles.

4. Obsolete: Most big countries are retreating from carbon pricing and from the many ineffective and expensive green schemes. These schemes have not even achieved net CO2 reductions, nor created net green jobs or economic benefits as claimed by proponents (Spain, Germany, USA etc).

5. Isolated: Big emitter countries such as China, Japan and USA have decided against renewing the Kyoto Protocol or significantly cutting their CO2, despite greenwash projects. Australia’s isolated sacrifice is thus utterly pointless.

6. Worthless: Even if CO2 were dangerous and we reduced it successfully in Australia or even globally, there is no physical evidence that it would have a significantly beneficial effect on climate.

7. Ineffective: Economists predict that a carbon price in Australia will just move carbon emissions to the other countries with smaller or no carbon price, especially as we export ever more coal to be burned elsewhere, termed ‘carbon leak’; this is what happened in Europe under Kyoto protocol.

8. Disingenuous: If Greens really believed a Climate catastrophe was approaching, they would surely concede to the lesser evil of building more dams and more nuclear plants. In fact, theirs is a primarily political agenda.

9. Damaging: it is optimistic in the extreme to expect anything but a disaster to come out of the complex Carbon Tax.

10. Premature: Conversion to a self-sufficient, renewable energy based economy should happen as technological developments bring efficient solutions, not by forcing gigantic schemes using current inefficient technology with huge public subsidies.


* Don't agree with more nuclear plants however the rest makes sense...

[Guest]

So you are vehemently against something yet have no idea on the alternative ?

I enjoy reading Melons, KB's etc differing arguements but Im sorry Rhodes you are a retard

[Guest]

Or maybe the public has woken up to the scam this really is. She said no goevrnment she led would introduce a tax. Thats the lie...not action on Carbon later on down the track.

There wont be any carbon scheme, with the Carbon markets collapsing world wide. There wont be any action. Just a tax, and here's the real reason....to chase a huge deficit that was created from so much waste. If the Greens have their way death taxes will follow. Inheritence taxes that will erode entire estates that may or may not have been built through hard work (thats not the issue here) are also in the pipeline. This is purely socialist wealth redistribution. They have blundered, wasted and mis managed. They need cash, a lot of it and quick. Tax on air and mining are the big tickets...and they STILL wont make surplus. Another misguided promise.

Melon, care to share your views on Abbotts Maternity Leave Plan ?

You appear to have strong right, free market views. Do you agree with this ?

[Rocky Rhodes]

So you are vehemently against something yet have no idea on the alternative ?

I enjoy reading Melons, KB's etc differing arguements but Im sorry Rhodes you are a retard

The alternative is to scrap the tax scam you mental midget. It's a simple concept really. Did labor need an alternative to scrap "Work choices"?

The fact that you needed to resort to a personal insult without no provocation and couldn't answer a basic question shows that you are losing this debate badly and that you are very insecure in your position. On your bike dylan/ tom V / henry china, you have got nothing...

[Guest]

Politics + internet forum = F I G H T ! ! !