Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[ism22]

Like I say Izzy, the lurid claims that you echo all come from the MSM (aka US propaganda). Just because something is said over and over again doesn't make it true. Unless I can find solid unbiased evidence I don't believe anything that comes out of the MSM, there've been too many egregious lies. The Gulf of Tonkin "incident" which began the war in Vietnam was a US fabrication which led to an illegal invasion and you talk about me ignoring inconvenient "truths".

Point taken... you only believe the whacky claims of the alt right media. That's the crux of this argument. You're an anti-western anarchist.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Yet another egregious US propaganda exercise is the commentary on the tragic shooting down of Malaysian Airways MH17 over the Donbas during ferocious fighting there in 2014. A Dutch court has found several Russians guilty of murder in absentia and sentenced them to life in prison. The MSM is baying for those responsible to face the consequences of their actions - no problem with that but ........

The process of investigating and prosecuting the MH 17 case is very different from that following the similar downing of the Iranian A300 Airbus in July 1988, a passenger plane shot down by the US missile cruiser Vincennes.

The Iranian airliner was in a commercial air corridor, over Iran’s territorial waters, on a scheduled flight and sending out squawks identifying itself as a civilian airliner. The airliner was climbing when it was brought down by the Vincennes which apparently mistook it for a diving, much smaller F14A Tomcat fighter. All 290 people on board the plane died.

No Western leader called for the captain of the warship, or any of his crew, or any higher placed US official, or weapons supplier, to be brought to trial and it took until 1996 for the US to reach a settlement and express deep regret over the loss of life. No-one was charged with murder, never mind being found guilty.

I would have no problem if future courts decide to charge and convict those who supply weapons used to commit murder – a logic which underpins part of the Dutch court’s decision. But the courts should not selectively choose who to charge, based on whether the accused are from “baddie” countries.

Those who supply the Russians with weapons used in Ukraine could be prosecuted. And so too the US and British manufacturers who supplied the weapons used in the illegal war on Iraq.

Those responsible for the Iranian A 300 Airbus downing could also be brought before a court. But in the same way as the Russians have shielded their nationals from the Dutch court, the Americans will prevent any action being taken against their military.

[eddie]

The process of investigating and prosecuting the MH 17 case is very different from that following the similar downing of the Iranian A300 Airbus in July 1988, a passenger plane shot down by the US missile cruiser Vincennes.

To be fair, there's a world of difference between the two incidents.
The downing of the Iranian plane was subject to rigorous enquiry, which turned up a lot of extenuating circumstances.The transponder signals were not as clear cut as you make out.
As to MH 17, all we've got is scuttlebut, but it seems it was done on purpose with full knowledge of action.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Oh Eddie you're irredeemable in your trust in the white night USA. A "world of difference"? Yep, one concerned the US and an enemy of the US and the other concerned Russian separatists. "Rigorous inquiry"? By whom? The pity of it is that you're not Robinson Crusoe.

[eddie]

Oh Eddie you're irredeemable in your trust in the white night USA. A "world of difference"? Yep, one concerned the US and an enemy of the US and the other concerned Russian separatists. "Rigorous inquiry"? By whom? The pity of it is that you're not Robinson Crusoe.

I have no trust of the "white knight USA".
The inquiry was conducted by naval authorities and the NTSB. Their conclusions make much more sense than a rogue captain shooting civilians on purpose.
One must look at incidents separately.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Naval authorities? Not Iranian Authorities that's for sure.

The Malaysian plane flew over a war zone which other airlines avoided. There was savage fighting in the Donbas and Ukrainian Fascist units were shelling Russian majority enclaves. It was very much the fog of war.

Nobody's saying that the Captain was rogue. Nobody was charged and tried. No Western leader called for any action to be taken but Iran did.

[King Salvo]

[King Salvo]

[Paddo Colt 61]

And your point is? No, please I didn't mean that. Just tryin' to be smart is all. No more raving please.....please sir.

[King Salvo]

“Putin and I are co-aggressors and the most toxic people on the planet” - Alexander Lukashenko Belarus President or more appropriate Stalinist Little Legs Putin's Lackey

[A Country Member]

A poem

[Paddo Colt 61]

When the president of the poorest, most corrupt nation in Europe is feted with multiple standing ovations by the combined Houses of Congress you know we’ve reached Peak Zelensky. It’s a farcical, almost psychotic over-promotion, probably surpassed only by the media’s shameful, hyperbolic railroading of the country into war with Iraq, in 2003.

Let’s remember that before ascending to his country’s presidency, Zelensky’s greatest claim to fame was that he could play the piano with his penis. I’m not joking. And he ran on a platform to unite his country for peace, and for making amends with Russia. Again, I’m not joking. Now, he’s Europe’s George Washington, FDR and Douglas MacArthur all rolled into one. Please. The only place to go from here is down. And, that is surely coming.

Consider some inconvenient facts that the fawning media doesn’t want us to know.

The European Commission president\has said that the Ukrainian army has lost more than 100,000 troops in the eight months since the beginning of the war. Over the nine-year span of the Vietnam War, the U.S. with a population six times that of Ukraine, lost a total of 58,220 men. In other words, on a per capita basis, Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate 141 TIMES that of U.S. losses in Vietnam. The U.S. lost the public on Vietnam when middle class white boys began coming home in body bags. Does anybody with half a brain believe such losses in Ukraine are sustainable? Does anybody have another plan to avert such slaughter?

In a matter of weeks, Russia, with its hypersonic missiles, destroyed half of Ukraine’s electrical power infrastructure. This, as winter is coming on. It can just as easily take out the other half, effectively bombing Ukraine back into the Stone Age. Is that what anybody wants?

The startling, indeed, terrifying part of this is that neither Ukraine nor the West have any defence against these hypersonic missiles. They travel so fast, and on variable trajectories, they cannot be shot down, even by the most advanced Western systems. They represent one of the greatest asymmetries in deliverable destructive power in the history of warfare. The Russians have them. The Ukrainians don’t. Game over. Can you understand why leaders in the West are beginning to wake up?

On the conventional weapon front, the Ukrainians are having trouble securing even conventional weapons to defend themselves. U.S. arms suppliers are working around the clock to replace their own stocks and the stocks that European countries have given to Ukraine. But the backlog is running into years.

Finally, the U.S. has committed $112 billion to Ukraine. That’s more than $10 billion per month since the war started in February. And that doesn’t even count the subsidies, both material and financial, from the EU which amount to billions of dollars more per month. Without such subsidies, Zelensky would not have lasted a month in the war. How long is he going last once that flow dries up as it surely is.

[King Salvo]

The Russian Federation should withdraw all their forces from all of Ukraine and their leaders and military should face a Nuremberg like trial for crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

Stalinist Little Legs Putin the former KGB Colonel has made it impossible for any real opposition to his Authoritarian and Totalitarian regime to exist as any opposition or critics are either jailed or got rid off by various means - poisoned , shot / "fall" out of Hotel Room Windows etc etc.

Also the Russian Constitution has been conveniently changed to enable Stalinist Little Legs Putin to serve a further 2 6 year terms from the 2024 elections

Moscow — Russian President Vladimir Putin signed into law on Monday a change to the country's constitution that will allow him to run for two more six-year terms, granting himself the chance to remain in power until 2036. The Russian leader, 68, has already run the country for more than two decades, and with his recent crackdown on political opponents and civil society, he has made it clear that there's little room for dissent.

[Paddo Colt 61]

This war is the doing of the US. The poor people of the Ukraine suffer because a fascist element, which is big and has a long history, has taken power aided by the US. It's a lesson to us all. We were headed that way with the last government 90% of the world side with Russia.

[King Salvo]

The poor people in Ukraine suffer as a result of the Russian Federation Invasion or land grab to put it more succinctly , The so called fascist regime reason has been well and truly debunked.

Putin and Russia are fascist – a political scientist shows how they meet the textbook definition - Z is the New Swastika symbol

https://theconversation.com/yes-puti...inition-179063


90% of the world side with Russia - mmm where did you get that figure from ?