Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[King Salvo]

[A Country Member]

Ball

[Paddo Colt 61]

The war is so PR intensive, the propaganda so over the top, precisely because the average frustrated citizen of the West has so little to gain from the war and therefore has to be constantly goaded to stay on-side. Surely it's the biggest PR war ever with coverage of Zelenski ringing the NY stock exchange bell (the irony of that), addressing Congress to rapturous applause (also ironic) and to top all, appearing on the cover of Vogue with his good sort wife presaging an article on how madly they love one another. All MSM and all egregiously propaganda.

The history of WWI is most instructive, and the propaganda then was nearly as hysterical and all-pervasive (not to mention, much of it entirely false). After that war, Lord Ponsonby wrote down The Ten Commandments of War Propaganda.

Read carefully, for the propagandists and their cheerleaders on here illustrate every last one of them:

1. We don't want war, we are only defending ourselves!

2. Our adversary is solely responsible for this war!

3. Our adversary's leader is inherently evil and resembles the devil.

4. We are defending a noble cause, not our particular interests!

5. The enemy is purposefully committing atrocities; if we are making mistakes this happens without intention.

6. The enemy makes use of illegal weapons.

7. We suffer few losses, the enemy's losses are considerable.

8. Recognized intellectuals and artists support our cause.

9. Our cause is sacred.

10. Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor.

[King Salvo]

The war is so PR intensive, the propaganda so over the top, precisely because the average frustrated citizen of the West has so little to gain from the war and therefore has to be constantly goaded to stay on-side. Surely it's the biggest PR war ever with coverage of Zelenski ringing the NY stock exchange bell (the irony of that), addressing Congress to rapturous applause (also ironic) and to top all, appearing on the cover of Vogue with his good sort wife presaging an article on how madly they love one another. All MSM and all egregiously propaganda.

The history of WWI is most instructive, and the propaganda then was nearly as hysterical and all-pervasive (not to mention, much of it entirely false). After that war, Lord Ponsonby wrote down The Ten Commandments of War Propaganda.

Read carefully, for the propagandists and their cheerleaders on here illustrate every last one of them:

1. We don't want war, we are only defending ourselves!

2. Our adversary is solely responsible for this war!

3. Our adversary's leader is inherently evil and resembles the devil.

4. We are defending a noble cause, not our particular interests!

5. The enemy is purposefully committing atrocities; if we are making mistakes this happens without intention.

6. The enemy makes use of illegal weapons.

7. We suffer few losses, the enemy's losses are considerable.

8. Recognized intellectuals and artists support our cause.

9. Our cause is sacred.

10. Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor.

Ah yes as you are calling it a War Comrade Paddo you have to now admit that as a Result of Russia's Invasion of Ukraine that Russia Started this War.

Comrade Paddo what used to happen to 5th columnists ?

[Paddo Colt 61]

The war began long before Russia crossed the border. Go back to the toppling of the US puppet Yeltsin and the intended exploitation of the former Soviet Union by a hubristic Empire.

[King Salvo]

The war began long before Russia crossed the border. Go back to the toppling of the US puppet Yeltsin and the intended exploitation of the former Soviet Union by a hubristic Empire.

The USSR collapsed under it's own accord as the gig was up basically - the evil communism ideology had run it's course.- The Lost Cause Theory comes to mind

Confederate President Jefferson Davis said "If the Confederacy falls, there should be written on its tombstone: 'Died of a Theory.'”- Which is a very apt statement for Communism in the USSR as well- Died of a Theory.

[A Country Member]

The Empire Strikes Black

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=King Salvo; Comrade Paddo what used to happen to 5th columnists ?

Like good and evil, the 5th column is a point of view.

Russia folded because the West (the white Imperialist nations led by the USA) interfered incessantly since 1917, stood by for 4 years as it was clobbered by the German invasion, getting involved only after Stalingrad put the writing on the wall, and finally sent it broke via an unsustainable arms race.

[ism22]

Comrade Paddo what used to happen to 5th columnists ?

Like good and evil, the 5th column is a point of view.

Russia folded because the West (the white Imperialist nations led by the USA) interfered incessantly since 1917, stood by for 4 years as it was clobbered by the German invasion, getting involved only after Stalingrad put the writing on the wall, and finally sent it broke via an unsustainable arms race.

1. The west does not spread media. It has a free media with all sorts of opinions. Dictatorships like Russia have one media outlet where only pro-kremlin stories come out. THAT is propaganda and anybody who disagrees is a dunce.

2. The USSR folded because it was never 'united' in the first place. Kaboom. Your claims that Russia now has a right to 'reunify' it (and pinch all the related respurces, trade exports, strategic/historic sites, talent...etc by doing so) are unfounded. This is exactly what expansionary dictatorships try to do though! Bully their neighbours into gradually giving up their sovereignty. Why? I dunno! Ask Vlad.

[King Salvo]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n973053][QUOTE=King Salvo; Comrade Paddo what used to happen to 5th columnists ?

Like good and evil, the 5th column is a point of view.

Russia folded because the West (the white Imperialist nations led by the USA) interfered incessantly since 1917, stood by for 4 years as it was clobbered by the German invasion, getting involved only after Stalingrad put the writing on the wall, and finally sent it broke via an unsustainable arms race.

[/QUOTE]

Does Lend Lease and the Arctic Convoys ring a bell in Supplying the Soviet Union

Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today's currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the “enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy — bloodthirsty Hitlerism.”

• 400,000 jeeps & trucks
• 14,000 airplanes
• 8,000 tractors
• 13,000 tanks
• 350 locomotives
• 1,640 flat cars
• Half a million tons of rails and accessories, axles, and wheels
• Field telephone wire
• Thousands of telephones
• Thousands of tons of explosives
• Machine tools and other equipment to help the Russians manufacture their own planes, guns, shells, and bombs.
• 1.5 million blankets
• 15 million pairs of army boots
• 107,000 tons of cotton
• 2.7 million tons of petrol products
• 4.5 million tons of food

mmm they were fighting the Germans, Italian's, Vichy French in North Africa and the Middle East at that same time ( 10 June 1940 to 13 May 1943) plus the Japanese ( 7 Dec 1941 – 2 Sept 1945) and even from June 6th 1944 The Germans still had a significant military force to contend with.

The USSR Collapsed because of wide spread corruption and shortages of even the basic items let alone food shortages , the disastrous Afghanistan War - The Soviet Citizens just had enough of Communism as the writing was on the wall in Poland ( Solidarity) and when the Ceaușescu regime in Romania was overthrown in 1989.

Even the American Icon McDonalds played a part when it opened it's first Restaurant in Moscow- Pushkin Square - ah yes those lines and there was no turning back then as the Soviets had a taste of the West and wanted more.



https://www.boredpanda.com/first-mcd...mpaign=organic

[Paddo Colt 61]

Supplying is easy, much easier than actually fighting and dying which 20 million plus did - some say up to 50 million - and the general destruction impoverished them for years to come. Those other theatres were sideshows but Italy showed just how hard going the German army was. Russia had the Italy experience ten thousand times over.

It's what the US is doing now giving the weapon supply blank cheque to Ukraine's fascist leaders to weaken Russia using plucky little Ukrainians to do it. They have admitted as much.

The McDonalds era is emblematic of US soft power colonisation presaging a general rape of the country. Gorby was too trusting by far and we see that in Putin's qualified endorsement of him on his passing. What you see in the photo is sheeple, gawkers who'll turn up for the opening of an envelope (bet your spouse wasn't in the queue). The photo itself is US hubristic propaganda. It was the time of puppet Yeltsin selling off national assets to people bankrolled by US and British financiers.

Clearly your wife is disgusted by your ideological blindness and your naivety. America the good - oh yeah!

[King Salvo]

The Battle of Britain was a turning point as the Germans lost over 2000 aircraft and over 2500 aircrew and never recovered from those losses from their attempt to invade Britain (Operation Sea Lion ) .

The evacuations at Dunkirk as well as by then Britain and the Commonwealth were on their own when France surrendered as the Soviets were too busy carving up Eastern Europe under the German and Soviet Union Non Aggression Pact.

I don't agree that North Africa , Middle East , Greece , Crete , Italy , D-Day and Beyond , China and the Japanese theatres of War etc were a side show though.



The blame for the Red Army losses sits squarely with Stalin not only because of the Military purges but also the attrition warfare mindset from World War 1 and the Order No. 227 “Not one step backward”

The Soviets were very ill prepared and not equipped to fight a more modern war and their tactics were still WW1 like which was demonstrated in the Soviet Invasion of Finland ( Winter War )

This also was not helped by the many purges of the Military that Stalin undertook which included the great purge of 1937/8 of 30,000 Red Army Officers either executed or sent to the Gulag Work Camps and further purges in 1941/42/43 under Beria

The execution of many innovative officers left the Red Army incapable of fighting a modern war. The officers who remained after the purges employed outdated tactics, and the armed services’ morale dropped to an all time low. Therefore, it is not surprising that, when it was time for the Soviet Union to fight in the late 1930s, the purges’ disastrous consequences were on full display. The Soviet performance during the Winter War of 1939-1940 was an early indication of the purge’s effects, permanently damaging the Red Army’s reputation

Moreover, the stunning Soviet defeats during the German invasion in 1941 further exposed the deep wounds that the purges caused. The Red Army leadership that remained after the purges utilized ineffective and outdated tactics, and a lack of effective officers meant that the Red Army had no answer to the German’s modern and fast-paced attack.⁹ As a result, the Soviets suffered catastrophic defeats, with the Germans capturing or killing over a million Soviet soldiers within the first few months of their invasion.

https://smleo.com/2022/06/07/joseph-...-consequences/

[Paddo Colt 61]

Not sure about the relevance of all that and you repeat yourself which is annoying but most of it is twaddle anyway. No country was prepared for the new Blitzkrieg. Ironically it was first theorised by an Englishman, Liddell-Hart and ignored by those in command who were also cursed with WW1 mindsets but also concerned for their own future relevance in any shake out. Germany however had its army radically curtailed by the Versailles Treaty so sweeping change was relatively easy and Guderian made the theory his own. As I say no country saw it coming and all of them maintained WW1 tactics not just Russia. France, with British support, fell in weeks and its army was taken into captivity for the duration apart from those who opted to serve with the SS but we hear only about Russian failures and the early ones were catastrophic but whether the Purges were to blame is moot.

The Red Army could not have been too bad anyway. Zhukov's army defeated the Japanese in the mid 30s in Manchuria something that no other military had been able to do up to 1945. Later it was Zhukov who was in charge of the slow bloody roll back to Berlin. I don't buy the Purge story. It's a Western attempt to devalue the Russian war winning effort while the other "allies" prevaricated for 4 long years angling, it is clear, for the end of Bolshevism. Historians put things into perspective calling it a Russo-German war.

[ism22]

Not sure about the relevance of all that and you repeat yourself which is annoying but most of it is twaddle anyway. No country was prepared for the new Blitzkrieg. Ironically it was first theorised by an Englishman, Liddell-Hart and ignored by those in command who were also cursed with WW1 mindsets but also concerned for their own future relevance in any shake out. Germany however had its army radically curtailed by the Versailles Treaty so sweeping change was relatively easy and Guderian made the theory his own. As I say no country saw it coming and all of them maintained WW1 tactics not just Russia. France, with British support, fell in weeks and its army was taken into captivity for the duration apart from those who opted to serve with the SS but we hear only about Russian failures and the early ones were catastrophic but whether the Purges were to blame is moot.

The Red Army could not have been too bad anyway. Zhukov's army defeated the Japanese in the mid 30s in Manchuria something that no other military had been able to do up to 1945. Later it was Zhukov who was in charge of the slow bloody roll back to Berlin. I don't buy the Purge story. It's a Western attempt to devalue the Russian war winning effort while the other "allies" prevaricated for 4 long years angling, it is clear, for the end of Bolshevism. Historians put things into perspective calling it a Russo-German war.

Fast forward to 2022... Russia attacked Ukraine. It's still bombing the shyte outta it and has this weird argument that 'this is their fault because they won't negotiate giving up sovereignty of their land to us + installing a Russian puppet government. Instead Europe, the US and other allies are giving it weapons to defend itself. As such it's also their fault for helping it defend itself instead of encouraging it to cede sovereignty so that the war can 'end'.

I'm gonna give you a free goal here and criticise Australia. We stole the land from indigenous Australians. Did that end the conflict or did it lead to endless years of discrimination, disadvantage and dissatisfaction? Zzzzz...

Even if your solution was on the table (which it never should be as only one country has sovereignty over Ukraine and it's not the USSR as it disbanded many years ago), it wouldn't end any fighting.

The ultimate solution to this is that Russia goes broke, people call for Vlad's head and Russia's forced to install a more progressive government in place of Vlad'd regime (which is invalid anyway as he used authoritarianism to amend their constitution in order to enable himself to be in power for longer).

[Paddo Colt 61]

Soooo MSM. Superficial, heedless of facts, stupid in parts and, above all, boring!!!