Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=ism. You teached me nothing.......

* Indeed I haven't and nor has anyone else by the looks. The billionaires aren't all that fussy about grammar?

2. The west is not a united unit. Propaganda is spread by governments (usually dictatorships like the CCP and the Kremlin), not the free media.

* Please, please give us a break.


3. The fact you believe the bollocks that gets posted on a ridiculous blog doesn't mean it isn't all lies.

* Yep, the blog is clearly post truth. Those highly credentialed contributors want to be ridiculed for publishing fake facts, they're crazy masochists!

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=King Salvo; The Menandue site is only deemed credible for those like you that share the same views which the majority do not.

Your sayin' the majority have views? See that's the point, a well informed electorate is vital for Democracy to work properly so the views of the rich individuals who own the MSM and those of right wing intelligence agencies need to be countered by truly independent opinion. Murdoch has a near monopoly hold on Oz media and a large minority think that it is credible (40%)

[King Salvo]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n973253][QUOTE=King Salvo; The Menandue site is only deemed credible for those like you that share the same views which the majority do not.

Your sayin' the majority have views? See that's the point, a well informed electorate is vital for Democracy to work properly so the views of the rich individuals who own the MSM and those of right wing intelligence agencies need to be countered by truly independent opinion. Murdoch has a near monopoly hold on Oz media and a large minority think that it is credible (40%)

[/QUOTE]

Yes a well informed electorate but not a brainwashed one.

All well and good with your love of the Soviet Union , China and Russia but as you have never lived in these countries or most likely know anyone that has or even lived under a Communist System your views are of someone who hasn't a clue quite frankly.

My Wife Born in the USSR was totally brainwashed believing the USA was the enemy and even had to undergo some sort of military training involving shooting at images of American Soldiers when in Senior Years at School.

Plus watching films about how bad life was in America - these films were in black and white as apparently according to Soviet Propaganda the USA were that poor they could not afford colour films - the films they were shown were of the depression times.

Oh yes the lining up to buy food and necessities as my Wife admitted was a common thing in the Soviet times as my Wife's Mother would send the three siblings (My Wife, Sister and Brother) to different stores other than the ones My Wife's Parents would go to and line up with the hope of buying these items - often not success I might add.

The residence they lived where they shared the 4 room apartment with 2 others families - Common Kitchen, Bathroom and stretcher beds of some sort to sleep on as there was a very very very long waiting list for the Soviet Government allocated flats.

One also had to be very careful about what they said and done as they could well be reported to the KGB.

My Wife's Mother when in Australia was very surprised that no one had to queue for food and necessities although the first time in the frozen food area after they arrived in Australia she was shocked that they sold frozen birds eyes - lucky a store attendant was there to explain it's the name of a company and the items in the packet were not birds eyes.



Have a look at the Russian Propaganda on the link below on Russian Social Media encouraging folk to join the Military as paid contractors to fight in Ukraine - unbelievable Propaganda

The person who posts this on their YouTube channel is Russian so no West Involved

1) His Daughter in saving up for a IPhone but hasn't the money as yet to buy one - The Father a Military Veteran explains his wages haven't been paid again so he can't buy her one - he signs up as a contract soldier to go to fight in Ukraine and comes back with the IPhone.

2) His crappy car has broken down and he's sick of his farmers life - So he signs up to fight in Ukraine and makes some money and it changes his life

3) A bloke who owns money to loan sharks - they come to see him to get the money but magically since he has signed up to go fight in Ukraine these loans don't have to be paid- A Loan Vacation

4) Excerpt of Russians Migrating to America who parachute out of a plane when they find out they have to go down on their knees to African Americans as they basically run America now

[ism22]

The Menandue site is only deemed credible for those like you that share the same views which the majority do not.

Your sayin' the majority have views? See that's the point, a well informed electorate is vital for Democracy to work properly so the views of the rich individuals who own the MSM and those of right wing intelligence agencies need to be countered by truly independent opinion. Murdoch has a near monopoly hold on Oz media and a large minority think that it is credible (40%)

This line gets old awfully quickly. Murdoch doesn't own the ABC, SBS, the Guardian, the Huff Post, the SMH...etc. To call all of these operations a scam is some serious tripping on your behalf.

Menadue's blog is a single source of pro Russia / China bollocks. It is not objective or credible. It's biased, pro-Russia/China propaganda, which most people ignore for that reason.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Hey King.

* I hadn't realised that English is probably your second language and I apologise for the remarks that I've made re your grammar. Are you a Russian- Australian? Ukrainian/Australian? Your embrace of NRL is interesting.

* Back to business. One does not have to be born in or to have lived in a country to be an Internationalist. It's about being empathic and even handed towards all nations. I am, however, anti laissez-faire Capitalism.

* I grew up in 2 rooms and an attic. Shared a bathroom and outside toilet.There were 5 of us and here were plenty more in Paddo and elsewhere in the same situation, there still are. Have you seen the homeless problem in the US? Here for that matter? And things are worsening.

* I have previously mentioned the activity of Western security services on Youtube. The clip that you posted is clearly aimed at the Russian sheeple by one of the many dissident groups financed by foreign intelligence and so crude as to be laughable but you gotta remember that 50% of any population is average or below average intelligence (llok at Izzy for example). I will say, however, that Russian women are often beautiful and those models used in the clip are meant to attract interest in the message. Good looking people, research shows, get favoured treatment. In passing, an acquaintance of mine married a Russian beauty whom he met online but she bolted after a year or two with a younger Russian guy - makes sense doesn't it? Probably thought the mate was a dumbo and got sick of watchin' Home and Away, Survivor and MAFS.

Izzy. Have you seen the figures for the ABC audience in Oz? The vast majority consume the commercial MSM and to be frank, the ABC these days is pretty much on song with the commercial lot re the Ukraine, China and Russia, as is SBS. We don't get an MSM alternative view here. There are always 2 sides to a story you know, we get just one. We need to seek out and value independent media like Menadue, Michael West etc otherwise our children will suffer in the future from our lack of interest.

PS There is an interesting piece today on johnmenadue.com re the Russian home front. Quite a different take to what folks are used to.

[ism22]

You're desperately searching for an 'alternative angle' on a niche issue of interest to you where there is literally no defensible alternative.

The mainstream is what's most popular by choice (a little bit like pop music - like it or not, Taylor Swift sells music because people like her stuff! Not because some dictator's forcing them to listen to it at gunpoint). People mostly listen to the media for entertainment, gossip, sports and coverage of small/local stuff. Your blatant folly is to think that exclusively relying on a blog edited by Whitlam's ex chief of staff for opinions on contemporary geopolitics is somehow better than watching brain-rotting tabloids. Not only that, you think it provides a diverse range of opinions rather than a foolish melodrama.

Look in the mirror - why would a senile, drug dependent doomer with a teaching qual from an oldschool teachers college know anything about geopolitics let alone be anything other than 'a bit basic'?

Similarly, why is Menadue any different from Peta Credlin (i.e. irrelevant and only on the public record due to being appointed by a short-lived PM)? I put the two in the same boat. They're not successful in their own right or intelligent/insightful. They're unelected party hacks from a bygone era who I couldn't care less about!

[King Salvo]

Comrade Paddo

My Mother was Scottish and Father Irish so Celtic and yes I have worn the Kilts and somewhat learned to play Scottish and Irish bagpipes and basic Scottish and Irish Gaelic

I don't feel by your posts that you are an internationalists just someone with the International playing loudly in their head.

An Internationalist is supposed to have an appreciation of the diverse cultures of the world and desire for world peace - you have a very strong dislike of the West and it's culture and are very pro China, Russia and possible even North Korean as those 3 share your view and opinion of the West as do the websites you frequent. - One would say Russia under Stalinist Little Legs Putin has no desire for peace

So hardly an Internationalist and more anti-Atlanticism or Westernophobic

The Clip I posted shows what is being shown on Russian State Controlled Social Media and TV i.e Organisations that are affiliated with the Kremlin so not Western Propaganda nor are these people being financed by foreign intelligence agencies either.

Not sure why you always think that anything that differs to your views and opinions has to be financed by Western intelligence agencies or is some sort of West/US contrived Conspiracy to undermine your beloved Anti West Block.

Here's another one - If you Left Russia you are a Traitor. - Straight out the Soviet Union Propaganda play book.

Vitaly Milonov -Deputy of the Russian State Duma saying any Russian Males who have left Russia should be declared as Active Homosexuals and the Women that left Prostitutes.

More of the Russian Couple migrating to America finding out on the plane that they have to kneel down to African Americans -shows them jumping out of the plane to go back to Russia

A Successful Russian who works at a Bank when asked by 2 Women where he is going - he's says he's leaving to go to Georgia indefinitely- A Babushka falls over with her shopping - The Russian guy leaving to go to Georgia looks at the Babushka but doesn't go to help her but two others do - when the Car drives away it runs over some of the shopping - the 2 women say - the Boys left... The Men are Staying

Propaganda song by Olga Buzova on Russian State TV about people leaving and going to Georgia and not manning up and staying and going to Ukraine - oh leaving because of sanctions to run away to where they have McDonalds, IKEA and Paypal.

Interesting they mention IKEA in the song as what are the Colours of IKEA and Colours of the Ukraine Flag - obviously the Russian Propagandists didn't think about that

[Random Rooster]

More Western propaganda??

https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...ukraine-2023-1

As the casualties mount up on both sides what has been achieved ? Just like most wars this should never have started.....but it did and now they need to find a way for it to end soon because neither side can win

[Paddo Colt 61]

The US dropped more bombs on North Korea than were deployed in WW2 many of them defoliants. The long term result is that vast areas are now non arable which enables the Empire to taunt, "Look they have famines, can't feed themselves" - it's the reason that the populace has been so united in its anti western attitudes for so long. That determination to show force and power is not for nothing. They blame the US for the war that left desolation and birth defects and they're not wrong - the Domino Theory...what a lot of destructive nonsense.

And Randy. Von Clausewitz memorably said that war was diplomacy by other means and is meant to bring on diplomatic settlement. First Britain and then the US have stymied Russian peace overtures. Their stated aim is to weaken and damage Russia as much as is possible and the bonus is that there are no American or British body bags coming home. Malcolm Fraser warned about the danger associated with NATO moving eastward and now we are seeing what he meant.

And look at the name of the translator of the Insider article you cited Randy. Then scroll down and note the flavor of other articles on the war - you think it's objective and not egregious propaganda? You weren't listening when, in Year 12 English, the misuses of language was studied. See how KIng ridicules Russian propaganda but would take Insider seriously.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Members of the Azov Battalion which recruits neo Nazis from all over the world and which was let loose on Russian speaking enclaves in the east after the 2014 US inspired coup. These are the people that we are supporting and cheering on but our MSM never mentions them or their affiliations. Their great grandfathers began the Holocaust during the Nazi invasion of Russia in 1941.

[ism22]

I lost that argument so... THE US IS RESPONSIBLE FOR NORTH KOREA!!!

Oh yeah and... UKRAINE ARE NAZIS!??

No mainstream news outlet will tell you this because they're all in cahoots. Also you're all too stupid to see what I do!!!

1. Just keeping tally... you now support Putin, Jinping, Bin Laden, Jong Un, Hitler...etc. Brevity my friend! Just make an exhaustive list of dictators who you think we should all support to make it easier.

2. No, Ukraine is not run by Nazis. We've been here, you lots that argument. Remember? Or is early dementia starting to kick-in due to your drug usage?

3. Back to the other argument that you lost, so walked away from in order to start randomly talking about how you support North Korea.

---

In summary, your argument doesn't even meet the threshold test as you've failed to establish that 'the west' (which you liberally define as 'everybody outside Russia, China and North Korea) acts as block to spread malicious, intentionally false "propaganda".

The single source that you draw from is an opinions blog. While you claim that only 'heavyweights' contribute to it... thus far all I've seen is a 1970's equivalent to Peta Credlin (i.e. a rogue ex-staffer to a short-lived PM), a fake 'Ambassador' (i.e. a private who defected to Russia via Saudi Arabia + thinks it's hilarious that the US won't confirm/deny that he was a top ranking spy disguised as a diplomat... zzz) and a dude with no PhD or notable publications (other than pro-CCP opinions pieces on fringe blogs) who is a 'visiting' scholar at a Chinese university.

The above are deadbeats searching for relevance (mostly by taking $$$ to be white monkeys), NOT heavyweights.

The fact Menadue was gifted the top public service job as gratitude for working at Whitlam's office (and then refused to resign, requiring the sale of Qantas to get rid of him) is the most notable feature of his 'career'. You'll note that the likes of Phil Gaetjens had the honour to resign when the government changed (as is the tradition, particularly with appointments of that nature where there is a real or perceived optic of the appointment being political). Menadue was/is just a little b!tch who is still too proud to admit he's irrelevant but for his job at Whitlam's office. The fact nobody reads his stupid blog is not a multi-country conspiracy! He's simply a bitter f@rk who is completely full of shyte. If he is not on the Kremlin / CCP's payroll (majority of his contributors are) then he's even stupider than everybody already knows he is.

Imagine if Credlin was given the top public service job and still held it, refusing to budge or take a redundancy package. Would you be bragging she's heavyweight and asking me to finely examine all of the senior roles she's held is if this gives credence to her stupid, controversial opinions? Your argument makes no sense. At least if you were citing somebody like Dr Martin Parkinson then you'd be talking about a valid intellectual heavyweight. Funnily enough he's not taking money from the CCP and Kremlin to spread bullshyte because people who matter care what he says. Also, he's validly a decorated academic, not a politically appointed methodist priest so has his own career to get on with.

[King Salvo]

The Russian Federation Instigated Coup in 2014 as after all the Ukraine voters voted in a Government who promised to sign an agreement/accord for closer integrated political and economic ties between the EU and Ukraine.

Days before it was to be signed Yanukovych bowed to intense pressure from Moscow and refused to sign this agreement/accord resulting in the Maidan protests - His Government lost support of the majority of Ukraine citizens and had to go.

But of course the Russian Federation didn't like this as they want pro-Russian Puppet Governments in the former Warsaw Pact Countries so they Invade Ukraine and annex Crimea and start backing and supporting pro Russian Separatists/Militias in the Donbas - quite a number of these militias as was the case in Crimea were using Russian Equipment and dressed in Military Uniforms bearing no insignia - Russian special forces one would say

So to say it was a US/West inspired coup in Ukraine in 2014 is certainly not the case at all - The Russia Federation started it and the subsequent 2022 invasion of Ukraine cleary showed that the Russian Federation is the aggressor with the full intention of overthrowing the Zelensky Government who won't Kowtow to the wishes of the Kremlin and become a Pro Russian Puppet Regime.

All this malarkey of De-Nazification and De-Militarization being the reason for this so called Special Military Operation has well and truly been proved as a con in attempting to justify the invasion of Ukraine

WAGNER NEO-NAZI GROUP

Ah yes Comrade Paddo's favourite Private Army the Wagner Group as it is also his beloved Stalinist Little Legs Putin's favourite as well.

Russia had released 40,000 plus convicts from Russian jails to replenish the Wagner Group numbers and these folk were not in jail for petty offences either one has to say.

The Wagner Group has strong links to right wing and extreme far right wing white-supremacist paramilitary and anti-Semitic organisations such as RIM (Russian Imperial Movement) which has been designated as a terrorist organisation and has been banned in many countries except of course in Russia.

The Letter Z the Symbol of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine is from the Russian Ultra-Nationalism , Cult of Personality Political Ideaology of Ruscism - i.e Anti-Westernism ( anti-Atlanticism or Westernophobia ) and Expansionismist - supporting the regaining of formerly Russian Imperial Lands by Conquest.

Ukrainians call Russian Troops Rashists for good reason

MMM the Wagner Group have a similar Insignia to the Waffen SS Death Head (Totenkopf) insignia as after all the Wagner Group is named after the infamous German Composer Richard Wagner a known Anti-Semitic who was the favourite composer of the German Nazi Party for obvious reasons

[King Salvo]

The US dropped more bombs on North Korea than were deployed in WW2 many of them defoliants. The long term result is that vast areas are now non arable which enables the Empire to taunt, "Look they have famines, can't feed themselves" - it's the reason that the populace has been so united in its anti western attitudes for so long. That determination to show force and power is not for nothing. They blame the US for the war that left desolation and birth defects and they're not wrong - the Domino Theory...what a lot of destructive nonsense.

And Randy. Von Clausewitz memorably said that war was diplomacy by other means and is meant to bring on diplomatic settlement. First Britain and then the US have stymied Russian peace overtures. Their stated aim is to weaken and damage Russia as much as is possible and the bonus is that there are no American or British body bags coming home. Malcolm Fraser warned about the danger associated with NATO moving eastward and now we are seeing what he meant.

And look at the name of the translator of the Insider article you cited Randy. Then scroll down and note the flavor of other articles on the war - you think it's objective and not egregious propaganda? You weren't listening when, in Year 12 English, the misuses of language was studied. See how KIng ridicules Russian propaganda but would take Insider seriously.

North Korea invaded South Korea which started the Korean war and were ably assisted by the Soviet Union and China one has to say. - Mao and Stalin had a major fall out over the Korean War as Stalin refused to go all in and fight the decadent capitalist running dogs West as you would call them

The famines have been a result of Economic Mismanagement, poor farming practices and Collectivisation - Collectivsation failed in the Soviet Union and in China both of whom had mass famines where 10's of millions died and also a continuous shortage of food.- Failed in North Korea too

The Famine in North Korea in the 1990's was a result of Economic mismanagement and the loss of Soviet support which caused food production and imports to decline rapidly. A series of floods and droughts exacerbated the crisis. The North Korean government and its centrally planned system proved too inflexible to effectively curtail the disaster.

You always blame the West as to you your beloved Commie Regimes can do no wrong - well they did and continue to do so.

Russian Peace overtures - well Russia should withdraw all their military and militias from the Ukraine and cease funding and backing the separatists in the Donbas for starters - UN peace keeping forces in Donbas.

The Russian Federation has to be reminded that there is no Soviet Union anymore so former Warsaw Pact countries can set their own agenda now and do not need approval from the Kremlin anymore - They are free sovereign states to decide their own futures and can apply to join any organisation they so wish whether it be the EU or NATO or not apply to join- It is their free choice.

There was nothing stopping Russia applying to join the EU or even NATO.

The War was started by the Russian Federation back in 2014 as I mentioned in another post - It has never been a West Proxy War as you keep saying at all.

You really need to access different websites one has to say.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Not going to grace Izzy's embarrassing rambling with a comment. It is way beyond ignorant - just lashing out really.

King, what does your wife think about your indifference to the Russian enclaves in the East, after all she is from one is she not?

The Nazi element inside and outside Ukraine's government has not been proven to be a con, the evidence is there in the photo nazi salutes an' all. The country under the current government holds annual public candle lit celebrations honouring a notorious anti semite now deceased but wanted by Israel throughout his lifetime (I've discussed this in detail early in the thread. See #3).Western media has simply freely asserted that it is a con. Well they would, wouldn't they? Pop opinion isn't well informed at the best of times but the connotation of Nazi/Fascist is a real turn off.

The bloc that we relate to - the USA, Britain, France, Italy and Germany are all ex Imperialists with dreadful records including Slavery and 3 of them are long term war mongers responsible for the deaths of millions from the 18th century to the present and that record is unarguable and can't be airbrushed from History. We are not the Good Guys.

[King Salvo]

Not going to grace Izzy's embarrassing rambling with a comment. It is way beyond ignorant - just lashing out really.

King, what does your wife think about your indifference to the Russian enclaves in the East, after all she is from one is she not?

The Nazi element inside and outside Ukraine's government has not been proven to be a con, the evidence is there in the photo nazi salutes an' all. The country under the current government holds annual public candle lit celebrations honouring a notorious anti semite now deceased but wanted by Israel throughout his lifetime (I've discussed this in detail early in the thread. See #3).Western media has simply freely asserted that it is a con. Well they would, wouldn't they? Pop opinion isn't well informed at the best of times but the connotation of Nazi/Fascist is a real turn off.

The bloc that we relate to - the USA, Britain, France, Italy and Germany are all ex Imperialists with dreadful records including Slavery and 3 of them are long term war mongers responsible for the deaths of millions from the 18th century to the present and that record is unarguable and can't be airbrushed from History. We are not the Good Guys.

My Wife was from Western Ukraine where Ukrainian folk are the Majority and Ukrainian is the main language- Chernivtsi for example -Ukrainians the majority and Polish , Romanians, Moldovans , Russians the minorities - I remember seeing quite a few Students from Africa and India who attended the Bukovinian State Medical University in Chernivsti (left) - Aerial Shot of Chernivsti (Right) or Little Vienna as they like to call it.

None of those horrible Soviet Union era apartment blocks