Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Paddo Colt 61]

A fair bit to deal with here but here goes.

Izzy;
* WTF is this "threshold test" that is so dear to you. I know it from Law (Succession, Equity, Criminal) but any relevance in debate escapes me. In the immortal words of one of our egregious political dimwits, "Please explain",

* Some time back someone, might have been you, sneered that I thought that I was the "smartest in the room" and, tongue in cheek, I then claimed to be so. You need to sharpen that sense of irony buddy,

* Again, please look at the credentials of the contributors to Menadue. You might disagree with them but they're no radicals, they have solid reputations to protect and that's why I refer to the site so much. Remember the mauling Moon of Alabama got? Undeservedly in my opinion but vulnerable as was King's fact check site. Menadue, not so much.

* all of your free assertion might go down well with a majority who themselves freely assert having no actual knowledge of issues but the practice has no merit whatsoever. It's the epitome of low brow.

MR.
It gladdens the heart to know that I have not offended you in any way. Have you looked at any of the Menadue articles that I have recommended? Nothing beats broadening the mind.

Randy.
How on Earth would you know (with the emphasis on "you") that "no country has or ever had any intentions of attacking Russia"?.The Nazis did and all but destroyed the joint and if you were Russian, what might you make of NATO moving up to your border when you have done nothing to provoke it?

Apart from the fact that the New York Times has reported extensive use of YouTube by US Intelligence, one can understand Putin's once veiled but now open references to nuclear catastrophe. As the German Foreign minister said "We (the West led by he USA) are effectively at war with Russia" and the US 's escalation with the supply of Main Battle tanks (MBTs) has now prompted another Putin reminder of a possible end scenario if escalation continues. To believe that the West is the champion of freedom here is delusional. Again, there were two excellent articles on Menadue yesterday which you really should read.

[ism22]

A fair bit to deal with here but here goes.

Izzy;
* WTF is this "threshold test" that is so dear to you. I know it from Law (Succession, Equity, Criminal) but any relevance in debate escapes me. In the immortal words of one of our egregious political dimwits, "Please explain",

* Some time back someone, might have been you, sneered that I thought that I was the "smartest in the room" and, tongue in cheek, I then claimed to be so. You need to sharpen that sense of irony buddy,

* Again, please look at the credentials of the contributors to Menadue. You might disagree with them but they're no radicals, they have solid reputations to protect and that's why I refer to the site so much. Remember the mauling Moon of Alabama got? Undeservedly in my opinion but vulnerable as was King's fact check site. Menadue, not so much.

* all of your free assertion might go down well with a majority who themselves freely assert having no actual knowledge of issues but the practice has no merit whatsoever. It's the epitome of low brow.

MR.
It gladdens the heart to know that I have not offended you in any way. Have you looked at any of the Menadue articles that I have recommended? Nothing beats broadening the mind.

Randy.
How on Earth would you know that "no country has or ever had any intentions of attacking Russia"?.The Nazis did and all but destroyed the joint and if you were Russian, what might you make of NATO moving up to your border when you have done nothing to provoke it?

Apart from the fact that the New York Times has reported extensive use of YouTube by US Intelligence, one can understand Putin's once veiled but now open references to nuclear catastrophe. As the German Chancellor said "We (the West led by he USA) are effectively at war with Russia" and the US 's escalation with the supply of Main Battle tanks (MBTs) has now prompted another Putin reminder of a possible end scenario if escalation continues. To believe that the West is the champion of freedom here is delusional. Again, there were two excellent articles on Menadue yesterday which you really should read.

Again... Russia's attacking Ukraine because they wish to expand their borders. There is no 'more to this' and your single source is highly unreliable.

You are delusional and use so many words to say the same thing over and over. This does not make you an intellectual. It simply means you lack flow/direction in your diction.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Yeah, whatever. but all of that is your opinion sourced from the MSM, the fisher folk, billionaires and high ranking communists who envy the USA. You continue to express an astonishment that the tabloid media should be palmed off. To do so seems to be heresy in your mind.

There are many sources - try Strategic-culture.org - they all say that the US has made a fundamental and potentially catastrophic mistake in sustaining its war with Russia and we should hope for a Russian win. These sites remind us how unreliable and mendacious the Western MSM is by replacing information with arrant propaganda. Doubtless, the KIng's "fact checker" published by an "armchair amateur" according to Wiki will call it unreliable but read and decide for yourselves.

[Random Rooster]

Randy.
How on Earth would you know (with the emphasis on "you") that "no country has or ever had any intentions of attacking Russia"?.The Nazis did and all but destroyed the joint and if you were Russian, what might you make of NATO moving up to your border when you have done nothing to provoke it?

Apart from the fact that the New York Times has reported extensive use of YouTube by US Intelligence, one can understand Putin's once veiled but now open references to nuclear catastrophe. As the German Foreign minister said "We (the West led by he USA) are effectively at war with Russia" and the US 's escalation with the supply of Main Battle tanks (MBTs) has now prompted another Putin reminder of a possible end scenario if escalation continues. To believe that the West is the champion of freedom here is delusional. Again, there were two excellent articles on Menadue yesterday which you really should read.

What country would commit suicide and attack the worlds biggest holder of nuclear weapons? For someone who preaches others to think for themselves you really should be able to answer that question without having to read it in a Menadue article.

Putin warned at the start of the invasion that any outside interference would be a direct act of war against Russia and would be met accordingly. His bluff was called. Now he is making the same noises about the tanks. Germany supplied the tanks- they should be his first port of call but of course he wont do anything- in fact he wont put a toe on any NATO soil. Stay tuned!

[Paddo Colt 61]

Do you not see Randy that Western interference is incrementally scaling up to a point where missteps can be catastrophic. This is what the Russians referred to when US hubris was at its height last year. The West thought that unprecedented sanctions would make the whole episode a slam dunk (the US dominates the world financial system through the preeminence of the US dollar) but that didn't and hasn't happened. The Russians anticipated that tactic years ago and in Russia today, things are pretty much normal and US strategy is locked into win or else suffer a gigantic loss of prestige and scepticism about its World leadership. Under those circumstances anything is possible with the ratbag neocons still in charge. We should be worried.

Strategic.culture.org has an interesting piece on Germany's position in all of it. Read it and say what you think.

[Andrew Walker]

Do you not see Randy that Western interference is incrementally scaling up to a point where missteps can be catastrophic. This is what the Russians referred to when US hubris was at its height last year. The West thought that unprecedented sanctions would make the whole episode a slam dunk (the US dominates the world financial system through the preeminence of the US dollar) but that didn't and hasn't happened. The Russians anticipated that tactic years ago and in Russia today, things are pretty much normal and US strategy is locked into win or else suffer a gigantic loss of prestige and scepticism about its World leadership. Under those circumstances anything is possible with the ratbag neocons still in charge. We should be worried.

Strategic.culture.org has an interesting piece on Germany's position in all of it. Read it and say what you think.

I would go as far as to say a loss for the US would see them a laughing stock amongst many nations of the world and no longer the worlds super power that they consider themselves as. Yes it is possible they will go to any lengths to save face and yes this is something people should be worried about.

[mightyrooster]

A fair bit to deal with here but here goes.

Izzy;
* WTF is this "threshold test" that is so dear to you. I know it from Law (Succession, Equity, Criminal) but any relevance in debate escapes me. In the immortal words of one of our egregious political dimwits, "Please explain",

* Some time back someone, might have been you, sneered that I thought that I was the "smartest in the room" and, tongue in cheek, I then claimed to be so. You need to sharpen that sense of irony buddy,

* Again, please look at the credentials of the contributors to Menadue. You might disagree with them but they're no radicals, they have solid reputations to protect and that's why I refer to the site so much. Remember the mauling Moon of Alabama got? Undeservedly in my opinion but vulnerable as was King's fact check site. Menadue, not so much.

* all of your free assertion might go down well with a majority who themselves freely assert having no actual knowledge of issues but the practice has no merit whatsoever. It's the epitome of low brow.

MR.
It gladdens the heart to know that I have not offended you in any way. Have you looked at any of the Menadue articles that I have recommended? Nothing beats broadening the mind.

Randy.
How on Earth would you know (with the emphasis on "you") that "no country has or ever had any intentions of attacking Russia"?.The Nazis did and all but destroyed the joint and if you were Russian, what might you make of NATO moving up to your border when you have done nothing to provoke it?

Apart from the fact that the New York Times has reported extensive use of YouTube by US Intelligence, one can understand Putin's once veiled but now open references to nuclear catastrophe. As the German Foreign minister said "We (the West led by he USA) are effectively at war with Russia" and the US 's escalation with the supply of Main Battle tanks (MBTs) has now prompted another Putin reminder of a possible end scenario if escalation continues. To believe that the West is the champion of freedom here is delusional. Again, there were two excellent articles on Menadue yesterday which you really should read.

Apart from the sexist, misogynist, elitist and generally condescending comments….all good Paddo…..lol.. But I’m pretty much used to your ‘style’ by now so don’t let it bother me too much.

[ism22]

Have you looked at any of the Menadue articles that I have recommended? Nothing beats broadening the mind.

Have you tried reading more broadly than the opinions blog edited by a guy whose only claim to fame is being one of Gough Whitlam's staffers who he gifted a job as a mandarin? Can't say you come across as the kinda person who reads widely and looks to challenge your tightly held beliefs.

Zzzz... have you tried doing a deep-dive research into every single editor of every single mainstream broadsheet out there instead of dismissing them all as being 'sheeple' who are conspiring with Murdoch to operate an invisible hand that has all non-Chinese/Russian/North Korean people behaving like brainwashed 'sheeple'?

Please research all of these people & give me solid proof that they are all on Murdoch's payroll before repeating this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory as if it's assumed knowledge. To me it is not assumed knowledge, it's an absurd conspiracy theory that would require deep collaboration between far-left and far-right media outlets (which regularly squabble and contradict each other). Unless you can provide substance, your conspiracy theory is not worthy of discussion.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Here we go again. Like talking to a brick wall. I have mentioned other reading sources (see #335) but Menadue is local, centre left and the contributors are and reliable and in some cases well known to readers. It is a site that, pretty much, negates looney left or right accusations. That's the last time Izzy, I'm not going to repeat it. Phew...how did you ever negotiate Law (if indeed you did)?

Our MSM and the US version which feeds ours doesn't need to conspire. It is inherently right wing, the difference is only in the degree. Look at coverage of progressive parties when election time rolls around. How do you think Conservatives have been able to hold power for so long in Australia? Only now with the Internet and the dying out of the ill educated old fart generations do we see the beginning of an electorate that resists the influence of the MSM.

[Random Rooster]

Ok Donald Trump Jnr made is a lot clearer on Twitter today- im sure Paddo will be in agreeance with what he said. He told of how his father would solve the crisis in 24hrs- stop supplying Ukraine weapons which will force them to the negotiating table- ie unconditional surrender. In fact if DJT Snr was still president he would have pulled out of NATO before any of this even started, making it even easier for Vlad.

Problem solved-unless you are sharing a border with Russia- then you got yourself a big problem!

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster; Apart from the sexist, misogynist, elitist and generally condescending comments..lol.. But I'm pretty much used to your style by now.....

I feel that you'd be hard pressed to sustain any of those labels Mighty one and I assume that the "LOL" recognises that.

Maybe I did go a bit close with my tattoo remarks (I hope that you don't ave any old butterfly faders, quotes from Omar Kyam or your life story covering your back) but my remarks spoke to aesthetics and not so much to gender. The motive for my recent pep talk, too, was more gallant than anything else. I was concerned about your deference to ol' Jaxie who is not the font of wisdom that you think he might be. Any devotee of Sky after dark can say similar stuff, it's just that the audience is so small that we don't hear it so much unless, of course, we read the Tele.

The last thing that I want is for you not to think of me as a friend. One to whom you can look for guidance, a mentor as it were. Which doesn't mean, I might add, that you shouldn't be critical if you feel the need but even then you can be assured that any response from me will bear the stamp of chivalry because that is my "style".

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Random Rooster; Ok Donald Trump Jnr made is a lot clearer on Twitter today- im sure Paddo will be in agreeance with what he said. He told of how his father would solve the crisis in 24hrs- stop supplying Ukraine weapons which will force them to the negotiating table- ie unconditional surrender. In fact if DJT Snr was still president he would have pulled out of NATO before any of this even started, making it even easier for Vlad.

* It should but it ain't gonna happen. It's a proxy war between the USA/NATO and the Russians the aim of which is to degrade Russia as much as possible by expending the lives of plucky little Ukrainians. Proxy wars are the best - no body bags arriving in Detroit, Oakland, Cincinnati or Baton Rouge - the black cities of America. The risk of a Third World War if the supplying continues and escalates is apparent though possibly not to you.

Problem solved-unless you are sharing a border with Russia- then you got yourself a big problem.

* Yes indeed. Almost as big as the one you have if you share a border with the USA. Plenty of unprovoked intrusions in that sphere but they were ok, no? Get the blinkers off Randy for all of our sakes!

[Random Rooster]

So what's your answer to the problem then Paddo? Negotiate with Putin and give him Ukraine in return who assurances he doesn't invade another country? Didn't we go down that alley with Hitler....and not long after he invaded Poland?

[mightyrooster]

It may come as a surprise to you Paddo but I’m capable of making up my own mind on a range of issues and am not easily swayed by anyone without doing my own homework. You seriously are a very strange individual.

[King Salvo]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster;n973974]

Yes you are correct the WMD was a lie and the mainstream media went with it. But of course the US was going to seek revenge after the 9/11 attacks so the War On Terror was easy to justify to the public as that was horrific.

There were a lot of Islamic Jihadists in Iraq who were not there for a holiday one has to say . Saddam should have been taken out in the early 90's after Invading Kuwait.