Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[King Salvo]

Comrade Paddo is a big fan of the China Daily and TASS, claiming that both are sources of independent news like his Menadue Malarkey and Full Moon Over Alabama websites.

[mightyrooster]

We will probably never know exactly what happened at Tiananmen Square. But to think the Chinese government would never resort to a cover up when the ‘West’ would apparently have zero qualms is extremely naive or just plain stupid. Playing with semantics because most of the alleged deaths potentially occurred outside the square rather than in it is also highly cynical and manipulative.

[Rocky Rhodes]

So much Gold in this thread...the leftards arguing with leftards..

They get on like P Keating gets on with the current losers in Airbus Albo, Penny "I'm a bloke" Wong etc.

Life must the tough living as a leftard... So much confusion..

[Rocky Rhodes]

What are you a cripple or sumfin?

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/8...NG18828_a.html

Ol' Iz is now saying Wikileaks faked it. Can you believe it? The US has spent all this time and money on Assange when he's clearly a fake news guy.

And, oh, so they destroyed all the evidence? Must have been at lightning speed? And they got hold of every camera from the tens of thousands there - amazing!

Hey Sherlock, u do realize that the camera in the mobile phone was only released in the yr 2000 whilst this massacre supposedly happened in 1989? Would have been only a few camera's there if any. Common sense ain't ur strong suit obviously. And u wonder why i consider u the complete sheeple..

[Rocky Rhodes]

We will probably never know exactly what happened at Tiananmen Square. But to think the Chinese government would never resort to a cover up when the ‘West’ would apparently have zero qualms is extremely naive or just plain stupid. Playing with semantics because most of the alleged deaths potentially occurred outside the square rather than in it is also highly cynical and manipulative.

Gotta admit it does look quite staged (see first pic in posts #1117)...so called victims almost perfectly spread out..no obvious blood to be seen anywhere. Looks as staged as the Boston bombing for example...crisis actors in CHYNA too?

Whatever, doesn't change the fact that CHYNA is a shite slave state...thousands of other evidence proves that.

[mightyrooster]

Gotta admit it does look quite staged (see first pic in posts #1117)...so called victims almost perfectly spread out..no obvious blood to be seen anywhere. Looks as staged as the Boston bombing for example...crisis actors in CHYNA too?

Whatever, doesn't change the fact that CHYNA is a shite slave state...thousands of other evidence proves that.

Yep I have no doubt porkies and exaggerations have occurred on both sides in the name of propaganda. But I also find it bewildering that Paddo, quite rightly, has a healthy skepticism for the MSM as he calls it, but on the other hand never ever questions the CCP endorsed censorship of the Chinese media.

[Paddo Colt 61]

We will probably never know exactly what happened at Tiananmen Square. But to think the Chinese government would never resort to a cover up when the ‘West’ would apparently have zero qualms is extremely naive or just plain stupid. Playing with semantics because most of the alleged deaths potentially occurred outside the square rather than in it is also highly cynical and manipulative.

MR there was no Chinese "cover up". Witnesses on the square say no massacre. Nothing to cover up, NO MASSACRE.

Deaths in other places but no tanks crushing the bones of cowering innocents.

* Presumably Rocky has the evidence for "slave state" and is prepared to share or is it a case of "everybody knows". Of course independent US surveys say that 90+% of the Chinese population are happy with their government.

[mightyrooster]

MR there was no Chinese "cover up". Witnesses on the square say no massacre. Nothing to cover up, NO MASSACRE.

Deaths in other places but no tanks crushing the bones of cowering innocents.

* Presumably Rocky has the evidence for "slave state" and is prepared to share or is it a case of "everybody knows". Of course independent US surveys say that 90+% of the Chinese population are happy with their government.

And here lies the problem. So there wasn’t a MASSACRE in the SQUARE by TANKS. However, people were certainly killed outside the square by other means, but exactly how many or the exact circumstances is now completely censored by the Chinese government. So complete censorship of the media and the population is less objectionable than biased sheeple herding by a ‘free’ press then?

[ism22]

MR there was no Chinese "cover up".

Right so a single party state that controls all media outlets going and arresting people who mention the massacre is not a cover-up?

PS - try using a VPN to set your region to Japan, using a search engine that doesn't bubble your results (hint: not Google) then searching for 天安門事件. There's some horrific footage of the massacre as well as the clean-up process.

[Paddo Colt 61]

And here lies the problem. So there wasn’t a MASSACRE in the SQUARE by TANKS. However, people were certainly killed outside the square by other means, but exactly how many or the exact circumstances is now completely censored by the Chinese government. So complete censorship of the media and the population is less objectionable than biased sheeple herding by a ‘free’ press then?

There is no "complete censorship". The Chinese say that there were deaths elsewhere, many of them unarmed soldiers as I have previously explained.

* Izz. Japan, with its right wing, US aligned government, is an implacable enemy of China's. It invaded in the 30s and the extent of war crime that resulted is legendary. Does your Jap "source" have identifying markers on any of the locations? I'd say not otherwise Western Media would have been all over them but not.

[zac]

i've been to beijing and tiananmen square. well worth a visit. no doubt 1989 is important but the big one was oct 1 1949. mao was good for a while but got the great leap forward disastrously wrong and lost the plot with the cultural revolution. deng got 1989 wrong but not disastrously so - hundred of millions of chinese have got out of poverty in the last few decades. that counts for something

[mightyrooster]

There is no "complete censorship". The Chinese say that there were deaths elsewhere, many of them unarmed soldiers as I have previously explained.

* Izz. Japan, with its right wing, US aligned government, is an implacable enemy of China's. It invaded in the 30s and the extent of war crime that resulted is legendary. Does your Jap "source" have identifying markers on any of the locations? I'd say not otherwise Western Media would have been all over them but not.

The same as there’s no complete bias and brainwashing in western MSM. It’s all a matter of degree, perspective and which side of the political fence you’re on.

[ism22]

Does your Jap "source" have identifying markers on any of the locations?

I mean... you've seen multiple photos of a big square with things like the Museum of China and Mao's Memorial Museum surrounding it. Google Tiananmen Square and familiarise yourself with its surroundings.

There's no dispute about the location here. That is, unless you are suggesting that there's been other massacres of civilians by the military in Tiananmen Square. Sorry... massacres of heavily deployed military tanks by masses of unarmed civilians (according to your theory).

[Paddo Colt 61]

Okay Iz. What a liar that Chilean ambassador was. His evidence that there was no massacre in Tienanmen wasn't worth mentioning in a secret cable.

[Paddo Colt 61]

A timely referral to the real situation in Ukraine and the background to it. About time we stopped discussing Tienanmen on this thread.

I do confess to be mightily surprised that those Bushmasters we sent haven't turned the tide. Bet we don't send any more.

https://johnmenadue.com/russia-a-ste...inst-the-west/