Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[ism22]

Okay Iz. What a liar that Chilean ambassador was. His evidence that there was no massacre in Tienanmen wasn't worth mentioning in a secret cable.

Let's stick to addressing the elephant in the room thanks as red herrings merely distract from substantive discussions of the facts.

We've established that the massacre happened and that the CCP arrests anybody found talking about it.

In your search to find a single skein of conflicting information, I note you are now inaccurately reporting that a Chilean ambassador sent a secret cable using the US cable system. I get that you don't have any experience with such work but please... at least attempt to research what cables and security classifications are if you're going to try using them to dispute a wide body of facts that fall within the category of 'common knowledge'.

[Random Rooster]

A timely referral to the real situation in Ukraine and the background to it. About time we stopped discussing Tienanmen on this thread.

I do confess to be mightily surprised that those Bushmasters we sent haven't turned the tide. Bet we don't send any more.

https://johnmenadue.com/russia-a-ste...inst-the-west/

The real situation according to this fella.....

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B072HGW1MP/about

One of your best Paddo!!!!

[ism22]

The real situation according to this fella.....

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B072HGW1MP/about

One of your best Paddo!!!!

^^^

Pretty sure that's what old mate looks like.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Not sure what you're saying Randy. Your meanings have been a bit elusive lately, Are you saying that his research is questionable? That he's not fit to have a point of view or be an activist? Maybe that he doesn't have "proper" credentials like Peter Hartcher, Greg Sheridan. or the gang on Sky? You know, people who are really worth listening to. A couple of stenographers.

[ism22]

Not sure what you're saying Randy. Your meanings have been a bit elusive lately, Are you saying that his research is questionable? That he's not fit to have a point of view or be an activist? Maybe that he doesn't have "proper" credentials like Peter Hartcher, Greg Sheridan. or the gang on Sky? You know, people who are really worth listening to. A couple of stenographers.

I treat them all the same. Doesn't matter if it's heavily biased, anti-western bullshyte or heavily biased right-wing bullshyte... all their shyte smells the same.

[Andrew Walker]

I treat them all the same. Doesn't matter if it's heavily biased, anti-western bullshyte or heavily biased right-wing bullshyte... all their shyte smells the same.

It appears you are an expert on shyte. Hardly surprising.

[ism22]

1. Are you saying that his research is questionable?
2. That he's not fit to have a point of view or be an activist?
3. Maybe that he doesn't have "proper" credentials like Peter Hartcher, Greg Sheridan. or the gang on Sky? You know, people who are really worth listening to.

We JAQing off again here mate?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

Just asking questions (also known as JAQing off) is a way of attempting to make wild accusations acceptable (and hopefully not legally actionable) by framing them as questions rather than statements.

It shifts the burden of proof to one's opponent; rather than laboriously having to prove that all politicians are reptoid scum, one can pull out one single odd piece of evidence and force the opponent to explain why the evidence is wrong.

The tactic is closely related to loaded questions or leading questions (which are usually employed when using it), Gish Gallops (when asking a huge number of rapid-fire questions without regard for the answers), and Argumentum ad nauseam (when asking the same question over and over in an attempt to overwhelm refutations).

[Random Rooster]

Not sure what you're saying Randy. Your meanings have been a bit elusive lately, Are you saying that his research is questionable? That he's not fit to have a point of view or be an activist? Maybe that he doesn't have "proper" credentials like Peter Hartcher, Greg Sheridan. or the gang on Sky? You know, people who are really worth listening to. A couple of stenographers.

Im not going to bag a man for having a go. Good on him. He doesn't state his resources- so i cannot question his research, nor would i ever present his views as "the real situation in Ukraine".

Really I thought he was just your average random Novocastrian geriatric dickhead church minister, hypnotist, poet, singer /song writer, activist who enjoys riding a Malibu ......but he has written a book about the coming of Jesus Christ!! You'd think working out the intriquises of the Russian invasion of Ukraine would be a piece of piss compared to predicting the whereabouts of JC!!

No Paddo i dont watch Sky News, or listen to 2GB, or read the Daily Telegraph- sorry to disappoint you. Nor am i a one trick pony stuck on Pearls and Irritations believing everything that is written on it- yes there are some informative articles/opinions but there's no balance as a whole.



So lets move on to your mate The Vladster and some verifiable facts of the recent terrorist attack.....


Putin ignores the public US warnings about a ISIS-K attack, ignores the public warnings the US embassy issued to its citizens to stay away from mass gatherings in Moscow due to high chance of a terrorist attack. Vlad even went as far as saying the US warnings were "provocative" and "outright blackmail". Don't bother looking for old reports in Russian media about his comments on the US warnings-because they have all been erased!!!! I emphasis the warnings were public in anticipation of you coming back with the tired "MSM sheeple lies"

So what does he say when shit goes down?? It was Ukraine! Then when ISIS-K claims responsibility he says " they were helped by Ukraine!....then finally " yes it was Islamic terrorists, but one must ask why were they fleeing to Ukraine? Who was waiting for them there?". Like just own it Vlad, you failed. Badly.

In actuality, it was a very embarrassing security blunder by the Kremlin. Putin is learning the same lesson as Americans: meddling in the political affairs of other nations has consequences. Never consider for a moment that things will be any different should prevail in Ukraine. There are 3.7 internally displaced refugees and 6.5 million documented refugees from Ukraine worldwide. Many of those children will grow up to be adults that will want retribution, particularly if they have lost family members.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Random Rooster;n1044542]

Im not going to bag a man for having a go. Good on him. He doesn't state his resources- so i cannot question his research, nor would i ever present his views as "the real situation in Ukraine".

Really I thought he was just your average random Novocastrian geriatric dickhead church minister, hypnotist, poet, singer /song writer, activist who enjoys riding a Malibu ......but he has written a book about the coming of Jesus Christ!! You'd think working out the intriquises of the Russian invasion of Ukraine would be a piece of piss compared to predicting the whereabouts of JC!!

You certainly do a job on the poor man, very News Ltd with the woke inferences and the sneers. ( I reckon that you're a News consumer if only of Sky TV). The one thing that you didn't list was "Commo" which was surprising for a one of your vintage notwithstanding that Russia is no longer of that persuasion. He cites the Royal United Services Institute re the weaponry imbalance and the rest - failure of sanctions, the US's opposition to a settlement, the destruction of Nordstream 2 is pretty much generally available except in our msm of course.

Some other points:

* I cite Menadue because of the eminence of most contributors who have reputations to uphold. The cite is Left but can't be called radical or looney and dismissed as such. I read other sites more vulnerable to the charge.

* Given the state of relations between the two, why would you assume that Russian security would take much notice of a vague US warning? In the circumstances it does sound like blackmail. What it is, is a US attempt to present itself once more as a good guy like its hand wringing over Gaza as it provides the ordinance.

* Isis have moved to the Ukraine. A prominent Isis figure was arrested there last week (See Moon of Alabama for the report). I'd think that the shortage of manpower has forced the Cosplay guy in the military fatigues to accept whatever help was on offer and probably it was organised by US security black ops.

[Andrew Walker]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n1044565]

Im not going to bag a man for having a go. Good on him. He doesn't state his resources- so i cannot question his research, nor would i ever present his views as "the real situation in Ukraine".

Really I thought he was just your average random Novocastrian geriatric dickhead church minister, hypnotist, poet, singer /song writer, activist who enjoys riding a Malibu ......but he has written a book about the coming of Jesus Christ!! You'd think working out the intriquises of the Russian invasion of Ukraine would be a piece of piss compared to predicting the whereabouts of JC!!

You certainly do a job on the poor man, very News Ltd with the woke inferences and the sneers. ( I reckon that you're a News consumer if only of Sky TV). The one thing that you didn't list was "Commo" which was surprising for a one of your vintage notwithstanding that Russia is no longer of that persuasion. He cites the Royal United Services Institute re the weaponry imbalance and the rest - failure of sanctions, the US's opposition to a settlement, the destruction of Nordstream 2 is pretty much generally available except in our msm of course.

Some other points:

* I cite Menadue because of the eminence of most contributors who have reputations to uphold. The cite is Left but can't be called radical or looney and dismissed as such. I read other sites more vulnerable to the charge.

* Given the state of relations between the two, why would you assume that Russian security would take much notice of a vague US warning? In the circumstances it does sound like blackmail. What it is, is a US attempt to present itself once more as a good guy like its hand wringing over Gaza as it provides the ordinance.

* Isis have moved to the Ukraine. A prominent Isis figure was arrested there last week (See Moon of Alabama for the report). I'd think that the shortage of manpower has forced the Cosplay guy in the military fatigues to accept whatever help was on offer and probably it was organised by US security black ops.

A conspiracy aye Welcome to the rabbit hole

[ism22]

Frankly... your argument has run its course, mate!!! Please start winding it up with some concluding remarks.

You've started multiple threads that all start with an assertion that mainstream western knowledge is all lies and that some anti-western blog tells the 'real story'.

When your blatantly obvious bias, highly selective reading and logical fallacies are pointed out, you ignore them and start JAQing away with questions about whether we support unrelated matters such as Murdoch's political editorial or US involvement in Iraq.

Nothing new is coming outta this, you rely on the same sources/tactics no matter how badly your shyte is disproven and we're all familiar with your childish, attention-seeking antics. This is not academic/philosophical/intelligent/thought provoking. You're simply a privileged child who has chosen the 'west' for its wealth / peace / stability / transparency...etc but will eternally harp on about how various dictatorships are actually more desirable. We've said it before and will say it again... 'WELL MOVE TO CHINA/RUSSIA IF YOU ARE SICK OF AUSTRALIA!!!! YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!!!'

[mightyrooster]

Frankly... your argument has run its course, mate!!! Please start winding it up with some concluding remarks.

You've started multiple threads that all start with an assertion that mainstream western knowledge is all lies and that some anti-western blog tells the 'real story'.

When your blatantly obvious bias, highly selective reading and logical fallacies are pointed out, you ignore them and start JAQing away with questions about whether we support unrelated matters such as Murdoch's political editorial or US involvement in Iraq.

Nothing new is coming outta this, you rely on the same sources/tactics no matter how badly your shyte is disproven and we're all familiar with your childish, attention-seeking antics. This is not academic/philosophical/intelligent/thought provoking. You're simply a privileged child who has chosen the 'west' for its wealth / peace / stability / transparency...etc but will eternally harp on about how various dictatorships are actually more desirable. We've said it before and will say it again... 'WELL MOVE TO CHINA/RUSSIA IF YOU ARE SICK OF AUSTRALIA!!!! YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!!!'

Hs favourite tactic is to ignore, then pivot and deflect by labelling the other poster as some sort of MSM, Murdoch loving disciple despite said poster having pointed out multiple times previously that they are far from a fan.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Frankly... your argument has run its course, mate!!! Please start winding it up with some concluding remarks.

You've started multiple threads that all start with an assertion that mainstream western knowledge is all lies and that some anti-western blog tells the 'real story'.

When your blatantly obvious bias, highly selective reading and logical fallacies are pointed out, you ignore them and start JAQing away with questions about whether we support unrelated matters such as Murdoch's political editorial or US involvement in Iraq.

Nothing new is coming outta this, you rely on the same sources/tactics no matter how badly your shyte is disproven and we're all familiar with your childish, attention-seeking antics. This is not academic/philosophical/intelligent/thought provoking. You're simply a privileged child who has chosen the 'west' for its wealth / peace / stability / transparency...etc but will eternally harp on about how various dictatorships are actually more desirable. We've said it before and will say it again... 'WELL MOVE TO CHINA/RUSSIA IF YOU ARE SICK OF AUSTRALIA!!!! YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!!!'

* Alternative sites may not tell the "real" story but they do tell "another story", one that that we don't see/read in Western media. Should we not be receptive to other opinion? Socrates warned that we should be.

* I'm meant to be biased, you lot cover the msm more than adequately. You're not "blatantly and obviously biased"?

* You in particular have proven nothing. You've freely asserted lots of things but that is a long way from truth. It's dibble most of it.

* Finally I come to you M.R. The "disinterest" thing must have been deflating and I feel ya on that one but I have tried to soften the effect. I've reached out offering some tuition which was rather impolitely declined and lately I've joined in on the discussion of Hot X Buns/ Cost of living. Now, like a thief in the night, you come to put the boot in seemingly seeing merit in the ramblings of 'ol Ismbard. I'm trying with you because you've shown flashes of reason at times but I don't know how much longer I can forbear.

[Random Rooster]

You certainly do a job on the poor man, very News Ltd with the woke inferences and the sneers. ( I reckon that you're a News consumer if only of Sky TV). The one thing that you didn't list was "Commo" which was surprising for a one of your vintage notwithstanding that Russia is no longer of that persuasion. He cites the Royal United Services Institute re the weaponry imbalance and the rest - failure of sanctions, the US's opposition to a settlement, the destruction of Nordstream 2 is pretty much generally available except in our msm of course.

Some other points:

* I cite Menadue because of the eminence of most contributors who have reputations to uphold. The cite is Left but can't be called radical or looney and dismissed as such. I read other sites more vulnerable to the charge.

* Given the state of relations between the two, why would you assume that Russian security would take much notice of a vague US warning? In the circumstances it does sound like blackmail. What it is, is a US attempt to present itself once more as a good guy like its hand wringing over Gaza as it provides the ordinance.

* Isis have moved to the Ukraine. A prominent Isis figure was arrested there last week (See Moon of Alabama for the report). I'd think that the shortage of manpower has forced the Cosplay guy in the military fatigues to accept whatever help was on offer and probably it was organised by US security black ops.

The more you accuse me of watching Sky News the more i realise you just throw darts.

A vague US warning??? Its was 2 public warnings- they were direct enough to even name concerts as a area of concern. Vlad dished it-even heckled it.....but it was right. Why didn't Russian intelligence pick it up? If Ukraine were harbouring ISIS terrorists why would the US be leaking these terrorist plans? Why does ISIS target Russia in the first place? Putin fuked up, but used the opportunity to blame Ukraine

[ism22]

* Alternative sites may not tell the "real" story but they do tell "another story", one that that we don't see/read in Western media. Should we not be receptive to other opinion? Socrates warned that we should be.

* I'm meant to be biased, you lot cover the msm more than adequately. You're not "blatantly and obviously biased"?

* You in particular have proven nothing. You've freely asserted lots of things but that is a long way from truth. It's dibble most of it.

* Finally I come to you M.R. The "disinterest" thing must have been deflating and I feel ya on that one but I have tried to soften the effect. I've reached out offering some tuition which was rather impolitely declined and lately I've joined in on the discussion of Hot X Buns/ Cost of living. Now, like a thief in the night, you come to put the boot in seemingly seeing merit in the ramblings of 'ol Ismbard. I'm trying with you because you've shown flashes of reason at times but I don't know how much longer I can forbear.

Thank you for your concluding remarks.