Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Paddo Colt 61]

Yadda yadda. Emotional, ill informed twaddle.

* I don't claim Tiananmen didn't happen. The US Embassy in Beijing admitted it didn't happen via Wikileaks.

* Google the Uighurs. Who, by the way, were/are a proscribed terrorist organisation that attacked the Chinese state. The repression of them is a Western beat up.

* The US is the main problem in Syria. It's there on the pretext of battling Islamic State but has been involved in all sorts of chicanery buoyed by the "success" of the "Arab Spring". See the false flag operation re biological warfare for which Assad was blamed. Russia was a Syrian ally long before the civil war.

* Chechnya and Georgia were jihadist inspired, no doubt with the connivance of Uncle Sam. There was/is a War against terror you know or is that just the purview of the US?

[Andrew Walker]

No one will go to war with Russia- 5580 nuclear weapons they have will ensure that!

Britain already have troops on the ground Macron is hugging and puffing about going in The war drums are beating whether it’s all a smokescreen remains to be seen

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ce-2024-03-14/

https://theconversation.com/british-troops-operating-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-what-international-law-says-224896

[ism22]

LOLz good to see my commie comrade Paddo hasn't changed.

Yadda yadda. Emotional, ill informed twaddle.

To be fair, most educated Australians would agree with the said person. You have a habit of calling common knowledge 'ill informed' on the basis that 'top secret leaks' and 'lesser known minds that are shunned because they say the unspeakable truth' disagree.

While I appreciate the joy that it brings you to romanticise a fictional narrative surrounding guys like John Menadue and Julian Assange... what if both of them are ill informed and everybody else is right? Just a thought. Maaaate!

* I don't claim Tiananmen didn't happen. The US Embassy in Beijing admitted it didn't happen via Wikileaks.

The only quote you've found to substantiate this is a claim that some of the CCP's military police were killed by pro-democracy protestors. You then dramatise this and make it sound as if Tiananmen square was a bloodbath where the CCP's poor, innocent military police with their defenceless little tanks and machine guns were the victims of a vicious, pro-democracy protest. They didn't stand a chance against a stack of university students and sending in tanks was DEFINITELY not an excessive show of force, nor was it to send a message that the CCP will in no way consider the option of letting people elect the country's government (and that those who complain will be killed). Only a fool would come to that conclusion...

Sorry but I can't remember a time when a western democracy sent tanks and machine guns in to mow down an isolated group of protesters who were gathered in a single public square.

* Google the Uighurs. Who, by the way, were/are a proscribed terrorist organisation that attacked the Chinese state. The repression of them is a Western beat up.

Done. They're people from a country called East Kyrgyztan which became part of 'China' when Mao drew a line and went 'yeeeeah that over there is China'. Upon searching the area, the CCP slowly realised that the area contained people who didn't look northern Asian, didn't speak Chinese and practiced Islam. Rather than go 'whoops... not our home, ay... sorry guys!' the CCP's doubled down, sent these people to 're-education' camps and tried to force them to ditch their language / religion / culture...etc.

This has nothing to do with the USA by the way, incase you were curious. [/QUOTE]

* The US is the main problem in Syria. It's there on the pretext of battling Islamic State but has been involved in all sorts of chicanery buoyed by the "success" of the "Arab Spring". See the false flag operation re biological warfare for which Assad was blamed. Russia was a Syrian ally long before the civil war.

Hang on... so Islamic terrorists are an issue in China but not Syria? I think you're confusing the two countries mate.

We've fallen off the rails here a bit mate.

* Chechnya and Georgia were jihadist inspired, no doubt with the connivance of Uncle Sam. There was/is a War against terror you know or is that just the purview of the US?

Now you're just going on a tangent of naming random countries and saying they're farked up because of the USA. Let's stick to your first 3 points before we go here because you've been unable to establish there is any meaningful acceptance of their validity outside listening to anti-western shills on niche 'blogs' and the like.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Okay, the first 3 points.

* Google Tiananmen Square/Wikileaks. US diplomatic documents say no massacre on the Square. Eyewitnesses are cited. That's why they want Assange - he has an annoying habit of spilling the beans.

* The Uighurs - again, google the likelihood of Uighur repression/ concentration camps etc. A Right Wing beat up.

* Syria. You appear not to know what the civil war is about. "Islamic terrorists" are peripheral.

Enough of your made up stuff and msm guff.

[ism22]

Okay, the first 3 points.

* Google Tiananmen Square/Wikileaks. US diplomatic documents say no massacre on the Square. Eyewitnesses are cited. That's why they want Assange - he has an annoying habit of spilling the beans.

How about you try going to China and googling the 'Tiananmen Square Massacre'.

If the US is the country with something to hide then how come I can google denials of the widely accepted facts of the matter and yet one can't even speak of it in China without being arrested?

Take your time... roll up a spliff... Google John Menadue's official response to this question and get back to me. I'm not moving on until you've cobbled together a satisfactory defence of your first point.

[mightyrooster]

I see Penny Wong on Twitter bleating on about this Russian election

Oiling up the propaganda machine to lead us into us along with a few others into a war with Russia

I don’t know what Penny said but you’ve got to give it to Vlad the lad. 87%. What a popular fella he is. Could you imagine any Australian Prime Minister or political party romping in with 87% of the vote? And to be THAT popular after 20 years in power. We get sick of them after 1 or 2 terms.

[Andrew Walker]

I don’t know what Penny said but you’ve got to give it to Vlad the lad. 87%. What a popular fella he is. Could you imagine any Australian Prime Minister or political party romping in with 87% of the vote? And to be THAT popular after 20 years in power. We get sick of them after 1 or 2 terms.

The Russians are very loyal people They love Vlad

[Random Rooster]

Britain already have troops on the ground Macron is hugging and puffing about going in The war drums are beating whether it’s all a smokescreen remains to be seen

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ce-2024-03-14/

https://theconversation.com/british-troops-operating-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-what-international-law-says-224896

Yes Macron ran his mouth and said it wasn't out of the question that NATO troops would be deployed inside Ukraine. Within hours most members of NATO completely ruled out doing so. Taking on Russia is suicide- for both sides

[Random Rooster]

Honest academic opinion says that he would have had a similar result no matter who ran in opposition.

Who knows what happened to Navalny? Our msm certainly don't but the reaction is 100% predictable. Russia is our power elite's enemy because it is the US's enemy. It doesn't take much nous to see through that. Aristotle warned us to be always skeptical.

I will seek guidance from Aristotle, as I have doubts regarding the highlighted aforementioned remark. The sceptic within me harbours the belief that you might have constructed it. If a source can be provided, I will happily eat Four'n"Twenty pie. If you are unable to do so, I will remain sceptical of whatever statements you make henceforth!!!!

[Paddo Colt 61]

I don’t know what Penny said but you’ve got to give it to Vlad the lad. 87%. What a popular fella he is. Could you imagine any Australian Prime Minister or political party romping in with 87% of the vote? And to be THAT popular after 20 years in power. We get sick of them after 1 or 2 terms.

The difference MR is that, unlike us, the Russians have 50 million dead in living memory. They also have the memory of no second front for 4 years and only then when the writing was on the wall with the Red Army advancing West. More recently they have the carpetbagging invasion of US money in the 90s and the all out attempt to make Russia a failed state. It's the oil in the Caucuses that the US is after.

[ism22]

Paddo: 'Tiananmen Square didn't happen'

Jizz: 'It's widely accepted that pro-democracy protesters were killed by the CCP's military police. The CCP does not allow discussion of this matter and you'll be locked up if you mention the event in China as it is VERY sensitive to the CCP'.

Paddo: 'BUT THE USA IS INVADING RUSSIA!!!!!!! THEY ARE JEALOUS THAT VLAD JUST 'WON' ANOTHER TERM AND ARE TRYING TO SAY THE ELECTION WAS INVALID [let's ignore the fact that the opposition leader died just before the election while being detailed in a -20'C cell in Siberia thanks to Vlad... following his attempted assassination which involved the usage of a $$$ poison that only the Kremlin possesses... hmmmm... nothing shady there at all!]

Jizz: 'The USA is not invading Russia... Russia is invading Ukraine. That aside, you've just changed topics in an attempt to evade having to discuss the serious flaws in your previous argument.'

[King Salvo]

The difference MR is that, unlike us, the Russians have 50 million dead in living memory. They also have the memory of no second front for 4 years and only then when the writing was on the wall with the Red Army advancing West. More recently they have the carpetbagging invasion of US money in the 90s and the all out attempt to make Russia a failed state. It's the oil in the Caucuses that the US is after.

Your knowledge of WW2 is scant, to say the least; no matter what the topic is, it ends with your usual anti-West and especially US rant.

Interesting, so what would have been your plan for opening a second front then? Notwithstanding the battles in North Africa, which lasted almost 3 years (over 600,000 Axis soldiers were captured)—Greece, Crete, Italy, the Balkans, etc.—plus the war against Japan from December 7, 1941,.

You must have forgotten about Dunkirk in May 1940, where miraculously over 300,000 allied troops were evacuated, and of course, the Battle of Britain. The Germans never recovered from these losses and lost over 1700 planes, with over 2600 experienced pilots and aircrews killed.

There was no way they would have been able to mount an invasion of Europe, as was the case on June 6, 1944, any earlier.

Of course, you forget that even your Stalin said that without the US Lend Lease, the Soviet Union would have lost the war.

At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.” Nikita Khrushchev, who led the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, agreed with Stalin's assessment.

https://it.usembassy.gov/america-sen...s%20assessment.

[Andrew Walker]

Back to current matters Wang Yi is currently in the country The highest level or most important politician to visit our shores in some time

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...ry-2024-03-20/

[King Salvo]

Okay, the first 3 points.

* Google Tiananmen Square/Wikileaks. US diplomatic documents say no massacre on the Square. Eyewitnesses are cited. That's why they want Assange - he has an annoying habit of spilling the beans.

* The Uighurs - again, google the likelihood of Uighur repression/ concentration camps etc. A Right Wing beat up.

* Syria. You appear not to know what the civil war is about. "Islamic terrorists" are peripheral.

Enough of your made up stuff and msm guff.

Syrian War

Factors

• Unemployment.
• Drought.
• Increase in State repression.
• Corruption.
• Lack of democracy. - Syrian Ba'ath Party has been in power since 1963 - Al Assad's have been in power for 53 years as Presidents - Hafez 29 years and his Son Basha currently 24 years
• The collapse of the lira.
• Iran's interference in Syria affairs.
• Sectarianism and rule of the minority.
• Discrimination against Kurds
• Economic inequality

Putin, with his so-called 87% vote, lags behind al-Assad: 2000 (99.74%), 2007 (99.82%), 2014 (92.20%), and 2021 (95.19%).

There is no way in true democracies that one "candidate" would receive such a percentage of votes; this only occurs when such countries are run and controlled by authoritarian and totalitarian regimes with a single despot in charge.

[mightyrooster]

The difference MR is that, unlike us, the Russians have 50 million dead in living memory. They also have the memory of no second front for 4 years and only then when the writing was on the wall with the Red Army advancing West. More recently they have the carpetbagging invasion of US money in the 90s and the all out attempt to make Russia a failed state. It's the oil in the Caucuses that the US is after.

Not sure how this relates to Putin’s astounding longevity in popularity at election time. Are you suggesting he is the one and only Russian politician who sees this which makes him a God like or Taylor Swift type figure to the Russian masses? Is he the only person for 20 plus years now capable of running some anti west / anti America rhetoric? Menzies, Hawke, Howard had long stints as PM but in the end they lost some or all of their aura with the masses. Not forgetting Hawke’s situation was a bit different. 87% popularity after 20 years and no competition?