Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Random Rooster]

My reference was to a French academic commenting on PM (ABC) who merely said that Putin was popular and would have beaten any opponent - an "honest opinion" I thought given the usual tone of our msm. And it's an opinion Randy, not the word of God which you seem to think only issues from Western opinion. Sorry Pal not a gotcha.

Wow thats the biggest twist of words, even for you!! It was a "honest opinion" according to you which made this random a " honest academic?". One of your best! It's a generic throw away line at best.

Interesting to see Putin on stage besides his carefully selected election opponents, all of whom joined the in applauding him with admiration.

Now Vlad waits for the keys to Kiev, which will be delivered with love from his orange American MAGA lap dog, should he win the November election......although i note that you did predict the end for Ukraine is imminent, due to having "no men of fighting age left with little ammunition". Waiting....waiting

[mightyrooster]

You might think but it is the Russian people who decide these things. Some on here think it's all rigged in Russia but plainly it isn't or no more than an American election with its Super Packs and rule by the rich.

I know very little about Putin so what "bad" can I say. It is difficult to find any objective discussion in Western media. Professor J Sachs is the only non biased commentator that I have read yet the Global South sees him as something of a hero. I certainly wouldn't entertain hypocritical finger pointing. Socrates told us to be skeptical of everything.

As with Russia generally, I use my loaf and I read alternative media. I don't jump on mindless bandwagons.

If you are going to accuse others of ignorant bias over Putin, I suggest it wouldn’t hurt to do some reading up on him yourself otherwise your alternative opinions or objections could also be seen as ignorantly biased.

I agree with you on US elections, especially when only 40% of the country bothers to vote and it comes down to two candidates from the same two parties. But just because the process in the US is flawed in the eyes of some, myself included, doesn't mean the Russian process is perfect and beyond criticism.

[Paddo Colt 61]

"Honest" in that most academic msm comment toes the line. He resisted that.

I never said defeat was imminent. I said that it was inevitable as it is - no US money (they know a bad investment) and the Euros tossing in a lot of old stuff. Lost in time is the truth that this is not a innocent democratically elected Ukraine regime. It came to power by a US engineered coup, banned opposition and set Nazis on Russian enclaves that refused to entertain the "result".

[Random Rooster]

I agree with you most if not all Western news services are bias. Perhaps this would be more to your liking

http://brisbane.china-consulate.gov....0_11263648.htm

Andy it's really easy to find a Paddo approved reputable information source.....its any news media that reports anything that agrees with his views. If something is reported/opinion that he doesn't agree with then its just brainwashing the sheeple garbage

[ism22]

"Honest" in that most academic msm comment toes the line. He resisted that.

I never said defeat was imminent. I said that it was inevitable as it is - no US money (they know a bad investment) and the Euros tossing in a lot of old stuff. Lost in time is the truth that this is not a innocent democratically elected Ukraine regime. It came to power by a US engineered coup, banned opposition and set Nazis on Russian enclaves that refused to entertain the "result".

LOLz I love how you've just moved on from your failed defence of your disproven opinions about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. Concurrently you ignore the elephant in the room, which is that China sensors all discussions about the event.

While moving on, you make a claim that private media companies cannot be trusted, as if they're less reputable than the media arm of a dictatorship that'll lock you up for discussing it finds too politically sensitive (e.g. the fact it killed a shit load of students running pro-democracy protests).

Happy to discuss flaws with mainstream media reporting. However when your alternatives are:

- Official messages from dictatorships that ban discussion of anything they deem too sensitive.

- Disreputable blogs run by the unemployed child of a controversial ex-PM's obstinate chief of staff (which 'publishes' content that's clearly been 'drafted' by shills who are loyal to the above-mentioned dictatorship).

Then 'the MSM' sounds pretty good to me as it reports EVERYTHING and you can make up your mind whether or not you agree (including after reading the above-mentioned disreputable blogs). Oh yeah, and you won't get Chairman Albo's boys knocking at your door when you go on a rant that claims all levels of Australia government are corrupt and in bed with Rupert Murdoch. No matter how farcically wrong you are, nobody can stop you rambling on over here because it's a free country!

As stupid as I know you are, I am all for you talking shyte as it only further disproves everything you're saying. There's no need for me to read Menadue's blog when I have you telling me about it. Thank you very much for reminding me that 'diversity of opinion' is embraced by Australia...

[ism22]

Hopefully tomorrow night's game mirrors the current 60-0 score whereby Jizz's boys (Easts) are putting a cricket score on Redfern Cult's commie comrades

[Paddo Colt 61]

Hopefully tomorrow night's game mirrors the current 60-0 score whereby Jizz's boys (Easts) are putting a cricket score on Redfern Cult's commie comrades

Huh? You're at it again. Be careful with that liver. Amazing that you're so far gone, living in a world of good and bad guys. And you're a lawyer?

And for the umpteenth. The American embassy in Beijing reported no massacre in Tiananmen. Wikileaks dropped their communique into the public domain. You can google it though that might be a bit too much for the cognitive dissonance.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Andy it's really easy to find a Paddo approved reputable information source.....its any news media that reports anything that agrees with his views. If something is reported/opinion that he doesn't agree with then its just brainwashing the sheeple garbage

Not so. Why would I agree with the egregious propaganda that our right wing media pushes? Keating clearly doesn't. I mean one can't keep on accepting US and Western "concerns" for the welfare of Palestinians when there are fake entreaties for peace on one hand and the continuing supply of WMDs to Israel on the other. Oh and a few parachutes to feed two million.

It's a pity that the world's brown people don't have our msm to explain things to them. As I say, I use my loaf having shrugged off Western bullshit years ago. It ain't too hard.

[Andrew Walker]

Huh? You're at it again. Be careful with that liver. Amazing that you're so far gone, living in a world of good and bad guys. And you're a lawyer?

And for the umpteenth. The American embassy in Beijing reported no massacre in Tiananmen. Wikileaks dropped their communique into the public domain. You can google it though that might be a bit too much for the cognitive dissonance.

I thought he was doing quite well till that post you quoted One cannot help but think the limoncello had kicked in

[A Country Member]

There’s a pile on happening here.
Though this place does remind me of the schoolyard with the actions of some. They’d be wise to tread carefully or the teach will hand out detentions or better still, a caning.

[A Country Member]

Don't know what else I can say to you. Clearly, any alternative to the Western narrative is inconceivable to you. The cognitive dissonance too much to bear. Does he fact that the US has been at war for 95% of its existence not raise some sort of red flag? Or is it "Don't matter, I like the music and the movies too much".

That soft power hold that the US exert, is about all it has going for it. Yet, you scrape below the veneer, like the teeth n tits, it’s all fake.

I would guess that the small percentage of opposition to Vlad and his party would be Russki’s like our King Stalin or Marshall Salvo, who wear a baseball mitt down and like to eat peanut butter and jam sandwiches.

You are what you eat.

[ism22]

Huh? You're at it again. Be careful with that liver. Amazing that you're so far gone, living in a world of good and bad guys. And you're a lawyer?

And for the umpteenth. The American embassy in Beijing reported no massacre in Tiananmen. Wikileaks dropped their communique into the public domain. You can google it though that might be a bit too much for the cognitive dissonance.

Mate - if you think there were no mass killings and that the CCP's open / honest about the matter then you're an absolute mug. Fine, I'll engage with your 'disputed cable' (though accounts by Chinese videos, books, articles...etc that were all destroyed by the CCP would be more valuable).

---

1. In 2011, three secret cables from the United States Embassy in Beijing [based on discussions with Chinese officials and their version of events] agreed there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square. Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters outside the square as they fought their way from the west towards the center.

2. Chinese scholar Wu Renhua. who was present at the protests, wrote that the government's discussion of the issue was a red herring intended to absolve itself of responsibility and showcase its benevolence. Wu said that it was irrelevant whether the shooting occurred inside the square or in adjacent areas, stating, "Really, whether the fully equipped army of troops massacred peaceful, ordinary folks inside or outside the square make very little difference. It is not even worthwhile to have this discussion at all."

3. After the protests, officials banned controversial films and books and shut down many newspapers. Within a year, 12% of all newspapers, 8% of all publishing companies, 13% of all social science periodicals, and more than 150 films were either banned or shut down. The government also announced that it had seized 32 million contraband books and 2.4 million video and audio cassettes.

4. The authorities mobilize security forces, including members of the People's Armed Police, every year on 4 June in order to prevent public displays of remembrance.

5. Zhang Shijun, a former soldier who was involved in the military crackdown, published an open letter to President Hu Jintao that sought to have the government reevaluate its position on the protests. He was subsequently arrested and taken from his home.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Look at the US Embassy report Izzy. You haven't done that yet? The horse's mouth, that's what I'm going on.

[ism22]

Look at the US Embassy report Izzy. You haven't done that yet? The horse's mouth, that's what I'm going on.

I've addressed your claim that the killings happened outside the square rather than in the square. This is a widely known red herring (a tactic you seem to enjoy). Noting, it's an established fact that pro-democracy protests were broken up by the CCP's military police, with many proponents being killed or arrested. Saying 'there's reports the killings happened while people were being chased outta the square, not in the square itself' is a rather juvenile tactic of trying to distract people away from the more substantive fact that protesters were broken up by the CCP's military and killed... nobody's disputing this.

Moving on from your intentional red herring (which I also addressed in my previous post, so it didn't actually need further discussion/highlighting)... the fact is that this event clearly happened and the CCP has banned people from talking about it. The end. Your opinion has been disproven.

[Andrew Walker]

Look at the US Embassy report Izzy. You haven't done that yet? The horse's mouth, that's what I'm going on.

Would you be so kind to provide us with a link