Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[mightyrooster]

Sorry Paddo but I’m done. If you think I still need tuition when I’m more open minded on this issue than you, then well… just think about that. I’m very happy with the amount of skepticism and critical thinking I apply to the media and government / political leader rhetoric in general, and as a former teacher if you can’t see that than I think you’re the one who needs coaching.

[Paddo Colt 61]

The more you accuse me of watching Sky News the more i realise you just throw darts.

A vague US warning??? Its was 2 public warnings- they were direct enough to even name concerts as a area of concern. Vlad dished it-even heckled it.....but it was right. Why didn't Russian intelligence pick it up? If Ukraine were harbouring ISIS terrorists why would the US be leaking these terrorist plans? Why does ISIS target Russia in the first place? Putin fuked up, but used the opportunity to blame Ukraine

Slowly, the masses of the USA are being drip fed the truth of Ukraine' terrible experience. Of course the message will not sink in to millions of them nor to others on here it has to be said. Cognitive dissonance ensures that new and conflicting evidence will be fought tooth and nail. It's human nature. Nevertheless, the process has begun. See examples below:

https://johnmenadue.com/senior-u-s-d...ia-in-ukraine/

[Random Rooster]

Slowly, the masses of the USA are being drip fed the truth of Ukraine' terrible experience. Of course the message will not sink in to millions of them nor to others on here it has to be said. Cognitive dissonance ensures that new and conflicting evidence will be fought tooth and nail. It's human nature. Nevertheless, the process has begun. See examples below:

https://johnmenadue.com/senior-u-s-d...ia-in-ukraine/

Whats any of this got to do with my post?

We are only a 9 months away from the US elections.....Donald Trump will stop the support of Ukraine and will do anything Putin asks him to. Then we can all hold hands and celebrate peace.....maybe???

[Paddo Colt 61]

Whats any of this got to do with my post?

We are only a 9 months away from the US elections.....Donald Trump will stop the support of Ukraine and will do anything Putin asks him to. Then we can all hold hands and celebrate peace.....maybe???

Intended to be an update on opinion, particularly US opinion, on the Ukes' prospects of success in the future and, indeed, the causes of the war. You appear to believe the opposite apart from the intentions of the Trumpster whose thoughts and actions you appear to have access to. Best to give that American media a rest .

[Random Rooster]

Intended to be an update on opinion, particularly US opinion, on the Ukes' prospects of success in the future and, indeed, the causes of the war. You appear to believe the opposite apart from the intentions of the Trumpster whose thoughts and actions you appear to have access to. Best to give that American media a rest .

Dont need the media to tell me.....i just listen to what Trump has to say- he is up front about his admiration for Putin, leaving NATO and not funding Ukraine. I mean Trump is the reason that House Speaker Mike Johnson wont bring the funding of Ukraine to the floor for a vote.

You see you too have direct access to the Trumpsters thoughts and actions.....but instead of listening to him you prefer to read only the opinions on John Menadue.

[Paddo Colt 61]

His thoughts and actions are erratic as I see it.

[ism22]

His thoughts and actions are erratic as I see it.

Grow up already!

[Paddo Colt 61]

For Randy and others who rely solely on reports in our MSM. This report questions the "early warning" re terrorist activity in Russia.

More than two weeks before terrorists staged a bloody attack in the suburbs of Moscow, the U.S. government told Russian officials that Crocus City Hall, a popular concert venue, was a potential target, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
...
The Russian leader himself publicly dismissed U.S. warnings just three days before the March 22 attack, calling them “outright blackmail” and attempts to “intimidate and destabilize our society.”

It is again Putin who is to blame.

However the above claims are nonsensical. As Shane Harris writes further down in his piece:

But the information that pointed to an attack on the concert hall also pointed at a potential danger for Americans in Russia. On March 7, the U.S. Embassy publicly announced that it was “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts,” and advised U.S. citizens “to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours.”

The United States shared its information with Russia the day before that public warning, according to people familiar with the matter. Naryshkin said “U.S. intelligence agencies” gave the information to the FSB, Russia’s state security service.

The public warning was given on March 8. It was explicitly time limited:

People have been told to avoid concerts in the next 48 hours amid potential ‘extremist attacks’.

The US Embassy in Moscow urged its citizens against attending large gatherings in the Russian capital.
...
‘The embassy is monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, including concerts, and US citizens should be advised to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours,’ it read.

Britain’s Foreign Office echoed the US alert, sharing it on the Travel Advice page for the country.

The warning said that the danger was during the next 48 hours, not during the days that followed those.

Putin dismissed the warning on March 19, nine days after it had exceeded its time horizon. The attack on the Crocus hall happened on March 22. There had been no new warning issued for that or any other day.

Former CIA agent Larry Johnson, who has personal experience with such warnings, is thus correct when he writes:

During the last 35 years I do not recall a single instance in which the State Department issued a warning like this specifying a specific time period for vigilance. The warning itself implies intelligence that provided a specific timeframe for the attack. So, when the attack does not happen, you need to go back to the analysts and ask, WTF!!! If the analysts had said, “Oh, wait, the Russians boosted security at the Crocus City Hall on 8 March and scared off the attack,” then the next question should have been, “Do you still believe there will be another attempt?” The analysts could have said yes, no or maybe.

So, if you believe the intelligence is credible then it was incumbent on the USG to issue another warning to continue to avoid large gatherings, such as concert halls. The USG did not do that.

Nope. The USG is pushing the line that “We warned the Russians and they did not act.” Sure looks like a psy-op to me designed to paint Putin as a heartless goon who ignored our intelligence.

And that is exactly what it is.

[Random Rooster]

Hey Paddo you didn't think you could get away with the above without disclosing the source- Shane Harris of Jeff Bezos owned The Washington Post!!

Since when are you giving any credibility to mainstream media? Welcome to the flock....you've become one of the Sheeple!!!

For arguments sake lets agree with the timelines of Shane Harris' article. March 8 was the warning for 48hrs. Putin just doesn't dismiss it on March 19- he goes one step further and puts the boot into the US intelligence. Would have been a good idea to engage your counterterrorism forces to investigate and disrupt the attacks if need be- maybe he did, i dont know, but if he didnt then do we blame the US for putting a 48hr timeframe on it, so it was just a case of Putin waiting it out? Putin is the one who bangs on about homeland security-this happened in his backyard under his watch.

However terrorism attacks are hard to stop. When you got the perpetrators willing to die in order the carry the act out it makes shutting them down a massive task. So lets say Putin did everything right and it still happened,in fact couldn't the avoided. The fact remains he blamed Ukraine before the Islamic terrorists claimed full responsibility....but then he double down and still implements Ukraine after the Islamic terrorists claimed full responsibility. I mean why the fark would Ukraine hatch up a plan to kill Russia civilians in Moscow???? All it would do is drum up more public support for the war in Ukraine......and thats exactly why Putin keeps implementing Ukraine- making a negative into a positive. I guess he cant come out and say "maybe we screwed up messing with Syria and its coming back to bite us"

[ism22]

Paddo's other tactic is on display... bikeshedding (also known as the law of triviality).

In essence, ANYBODY can express an opinion that 'the west' is lying to us and that Russia/China are more reliable sources of information. Much time can be wasted on trivialising ad-hoc facts/scenarios.

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Mate - You've admitted that you are biased towards reasoning that views Russia and China as being the 'good guys' and western democracies as being the 'bad guys' (despite the fact you have never lived outside Australia and refuse to do so... suggesting you're just being obtuse/argumentative for the joy of doing so / getting attention by doing so).

Whatever floats your boat. However let it be known... you're just bikeshedding. I don't give a fark what colour the bikeshed is if Vlad's gonna bomb it down and piss on the ashes regardless!!!

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

The law of triviality is C Northcote Parkinson's1957 argument that people within an organization commonly give disproportionate weight to trivial issues.Parkinson provides the example of a fictional committee whose job was to approve the plans for a nuclear power plant spending the majority of its time on discussions about relatively minor but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what materials to use for the staff bicycle shed, while neglecting the proposed design of the plant itself, which is far more important and a far more difficult and complex task.
...

This is a metaphor indicating that it is not necessary to argue about every little feature based simply on having the knowledge to do so. Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change.

[Paddo Colt 61]

If you read carefully, the Russians acted on the specific warnings and then dismissed them on the 19th, days after the time that was specified - the 9th and the 10th.

The US has long desired regime change in Syria as part of the overall strategy to knobble Russia. It has, probably, a bigger presence there than does the Russians. It runs false flag propaganda stunts like the nerve gas on civilians lie.

My main concern is to make sheeple aware of the biased rubbish that Western media pedals. We see it nightly on all TV including SBS and the ABC. Oz needs to be independent but I think that Whitlam's fate is what happens to those who try it on.

Izzy. I don't think that you actually understand the theme of this thread. It's about Western media and its lies, bias distortions and complicity with security services of the UK and the US. In this thread it's the Uke war. I've never mentioned China's or Russia's media, my focus is on Western propaganda and whether it's a bike shed or powerhouse, I seek to expose it as part of the ubiquitous pattern of deceit. We won't hear any of it in our msm. Few, for example, would believe that the US goaded Japan into war in 1941. Their sheeple and indeed the world's bought the unprovoked attack story, likewise with Ukraine, The US is always at it - goad, provoke by its actions and policies and when the "victim" responds, it's "Hey look what they're doing the evil bastards".

[ism22]

My main concern is to make sheeple aware of the biased rubbish that Western media pedals.

You've given me this same line countless times.

Honestly, you're sounding like somebody who's trying to recruit people for a cult...

[Random Rooster]

The US has long desired regime change in Syria as part of the overall strategy to knobble Russia. It has, probably, a bigger presence there than does the Russians. It runs false flag propaganda stunts like the nerve gas on civilians lie.

No not even close.......https://www.arabnews.com/node/2354606


I'm old enough to recall the 1999 Russian apartment-house bombings, which propelled Putin to the presidency and served as a pretext for the second Chechen conflict.

Many thought that was a false flag operation- including 4 Russian human-rights defenders (whose names i cannot recall!) that were investigating the bombings. Unfortunately they were all murdered over a 3 year period and their work was never revealed.

[mightyrooster]

No not even close.......https://www.arabnews.com/node/2354606


I'm old enough to recall the 1999 Russian apartment-house bombings, which propelled Putin to the presidency and served as a pretext for the second Chechen conflict.

Many thought that was a false flag operation- including 4 Russian human-rights defenders (whose names i cannot recall!) that were investigating the bombings. Unfortunately they were all murdered over a 3 year period and their work was never revealed.

You’re not allowed to mention that here. It’s not the correct theme. Best create a new thread titled ‘Minus Russian propaganda what’s the real story with Teflon Vlad?’.

[Random Rooster]

You’re not allowed to mention that here. It’s not the correct theme. Best create a new thread titled ‘Minus Russian propaganda what’s the real story with Teflon Vlad?’.

Hahahaha but i never said it was a false flag......nor did i say Putin had anything to do with the murders!! These things.....you know....sometimes happen in life!