Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Random Rooster]

Public opinion in the Global South sympathises with Russian rationale re the war - that it is the result of an existential crisis brought on by the spectre of US/NATO military expansion to the Russian border. Russia is/was simply defending the status quo and the people of the GS see that.

Your simple UN head count of support is iffy and lacks nuance to say the least. Each South nation's official position is not clearly condemnatory of Russia. Many went along with the UN "motherhood" resolution, after all the US is a world hegemon, but they did not condemn, mirroring the public opinion in their countries. The only lot who are balls deep are Western vassal states of the US and they (including OZ) now look like egregious fools. Whipped into line originally only to have the rug pulled out now.

Your claim is a "looks like" proposition based on official numbers. It's not unlike the proposition that the US is the champion of "freedom". To many it "looked like that" but clearly wasn't.

Really, in this country the grievous embarrassment is the Libs/MSM fault. Since way back, the ALP has been wedged over National Security. It's a complete beat up as I've explained in the past but it has a long history as an electoral plus because Mugsville buys it and always has. When in gov, the ALP attempts to restrict "Defence" spending (or did once) but the risk in doing that is serious given our mendacious right wing media's reach, so on major issues it seeks, or is wedged into, uniformity with the Right.

What Trump has done is lifted the benign mask off the face of Empire, showing the world its true colours and leaving the media/Libs with no clothes on. The realisation should at least upset our internal mania with defence exposing, as it does, the total hypocrisy of Uncle Sam. But it probably won't.

Already media hacks are calling for greater defence spending here at the bottom of the World in the absence of any US guarantees - a sort of go-it-alone derring do, middle finger reaction in the face of US perfidy. Little Ozzy punching above its weight again. A sentiment that Jaxie, 08 and Sal might applaud seeing they'd never have to fight - intelligence issues would prevent them enlisting. Anyway, best to leave the rough stuff to John Wayne who, at this moment is hopefully being thawed at some Cyronics warehouse. Come the moment, come the man eh Jax.

Cmon Paddo how does a "simple head count" of the UN seem "iffy" but your 90% of the world sympathises with Russia is legit? I mean even if you said it was fifty ftfty id want to see some real proof on that- but 90% is just pigs flying out of thin air stuff. Here is a study by Cambridge Uni that may give a better balance on how the world views affairs.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/worlddivided

Having said that im pretty much with you on everything else. Whilst i always maintained that the US meddling in others world affairs, such as they have in the middle east, has been the source of much of the worlds instability, i admit that i was wrong on how low the US can go.

I guess while MAGA supporters are strutting around like alpha males, events like last nights disastrous media conference helps take the spotlight off the House Republicans voting to advance a budget resolution that slashes Medicaid funding by nearly $1 trillion to provide tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and big corporations, paving the way for even deeper cuts of up to $2 trillion that would strip health care from tens of millions of Americans. Seems like the bill forgot to include abolishing tax on tips, overtime and social security. Oh well,bad luck

[King Salvo]

It's all connected as Putin has said many times " that the collapse of the Soviet empire “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” - "It was a disintegration of historically Russia under the name of the Soviet Union,"

What do you think that means plus when Putin says that "Ukraine didn't exist as a separate state and had never been a nation and that Ukrainians are Russians" - That goes back to the Soviet Union times when Ukrainians were known as "Little Russians"

The above was said many times by Putin and his Stooges before the Russian Invasion of Ukraine - 2014 ( Crimea and Donbass) and 2022 ( Full Invasion of Ukraine)

There has been many attempts to bury what's left of Lenin ( mostly plastic of sorts now) too but he is still there - I have viewed him a few times - It's like Russia can't move ahead and still need to cling onto the past - there has been a concerted effort to "rehabilitate" Stalin as well - white washing the Gulags/executions/Purges/ Collectivisation forced famines ( i.e Holodomor in Ukraine)

Impossible to reform the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact Block to the way it was as none of the countries(Majority i.e not under Kremlin control ) would ever want to revisit that period.

Russia controls Belarus despite Lukashenko being the "President" - Belarus was formerly known as Belorussia or White Russia - mmm that Russia reference again - What would happen if Belarus folk booted out Lukashenko and elected a pro West/Europe Government- Russia would no doubt would invade it too. - sure highly unlikely as like Putin Lukashenko has any opponents/opposition eliminated.

I remember when Russia and Belarus signed the Treaty on the Creation of a Union State i.e - a common head of state, legislature, flag, coat of arms, anthem, constitution, army, citizenship and currency. Attempts were made for others to sign on - Ukraine and Kazakhstan for example.

None ever did and quite rightly so.

An Eurasian economic Union was later formed comprising of Armenia , Belarus, Kazakhstan , Kyrgyzstan and Russia - a somewhat mini EU but controlled by Russia - more politically driven - all roads lead to Moscow/Kremlin.

All too convenient for Putin to say it's NATO and Nazi's as we have heard that before.

Did Putin attempt to invade Sweden and or especially Finland when they were applying to join NATO- No - Helsinki is around 300 Km's from St Petersburg with the 5th largest border with Russia - 1271.80 km's - Ukraine 1925.80 km's - Mongolia - 3485.00 km's - China - 4209.30 km and Kazakhstan the largest - 7512.80 km's




https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...er-russia.html

Putin said there were "Nazi's" in Chechnya ( 2 Wars) , plus Dagestan ( squash the independence from Russia movement ) plus Georgia ( illegally annexation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia ) and of course Ukraine.

All these have something in common - Chechnya and Dagestan independence ( wanted to breakaway from Moscow/Kremlin's Iron Grip) - Georgia and Ukraine elected pro West and Europe Governments ( Russia backed the pro Russian Militias and of course sent in the little green men ( Neo Nazi Wagner) - Illegal Annexation of Crimea and the Donbas)

Putin's ongoing concern is losing control of the "Stans" and so called "Independent" Russian republics who often advocate for full independence - Folk in Russia want independence too - Siberian Independence Movement for an example - fuelled not least by the unequal distribution of revenue from the regions rich oil and minerals resources.




The Russian Duma said the average salary in Russia per month is 791 USD (1274.27 AUD) - Videos show average wages in regions at around 216 USD or less per month (347.99 AUD)

If a regional person is receiving 216 USD (347.99) per month then a person in Moscow and or St Petersburg must be receiving 1366 USD ( 2200.74 AUD) per month for this average of 791 USD ( 1274.27 AUD)

Where did or does the money go - certainly not much to the regions or in salary and pension rises across the board - Putin sitting on a lazy 200 Billion USD of Assets plus of course the Oligarchs and Regional Governors get their cut as well.

Ah yes Authoritarian and Totalitarian regimes get rich schemes - the higher you are up in the regime the more you can make. -mmm very Soviet Union Like

[mightyrooster]

The White House clash is hilarious (Is that what you refer to Randy?) not so much in bewildered Zel trying to talk logic to a pair who didn't want to listen but in the popular reaction on X. Just days ago their masses (and ours) were firm in their misguided belief that this war was good v evil writ large - Russia was evil full stop. The Randy/MR/08/Salvatore/Issy line. Now the American X posters and the masses I would suggest have turned 360, turning on the hapless Nazi Uke leadership who were duped into sacrificing their young people on the basis of US ambitions and false promises. We now need to see Zelenski as the bad guy which he is in fact and the sheeple will instantly fall into line. Confused maybe but happy to reset their "opinions". It's a difficult one for our msm.

What is surprising is that the Euros want to continue war mongering when peace is offered. It's a good line from Trump.

You’ve misrepresented me again on this subject. I have always maintained that the US does meddle in other countries business way too often and make out it is doing so for the good of everyone when in actual fact it is only looking after itself, while attempting to maintain its power status. I have then said multiple times that two wrongs don’t make a right and just because I don’t trust the US on what’s happening in the Ukraine because they have helped contribute to the instability there in the first place, does not make Putin some sort of saint or hero. I have sad this repeatedly but you only chose to focus on my Putin hatred instead of my dislike for US foreign policy. Which is why I gave up on this thread.

Trump has pretty much proven why you cannot trust the US. While Putin is still an egomaniac, just like his buddy Trump.

[King Salvo]

You’ve misrepresented me again on this subject. I have always maintained that the US does meddle in other countries business way too often and make out it is doing so for the good of everyone when in actual fact it is only looking after itself, while attempting to maintain its power status. I have then said multiple times that two wrongs don’t make a right and just because I don’t trust the US on what’s happening in the Ukraine because they have helped contribute to the instability there in the first place, does not make Putin some sort of saint or hero. I have sad this repeatedly but you only chose to focus on my Putin hatred instead of my dislike for US foreign policy. Which is why I gave up on this thread.

Trump has pretty much proven why you cannot trust the US. While Putin is still an egomaniac, just like his buddy Trump.

No Involvement at in all in the removal of the Yanukovych/Azarov Government in 2014 - Russian propaganda the same as the Nazi's excuse they use to invade countries and annex regions and oh NATO as well - that was purely done by the Ukraine Citizens.

We know folk on the ground in Ukraine at the time closer to the events and Mrs Salvo's of course knows them better and for longer than me- There was no CIA folk running around organising protests and what not at all pure fantasy - we were in Chernivtsi at the time - Mid December to Mid January - Russia the last 2 weeks of January and 1st week of February. - Russian TV was on full propaganda mode.

Throw in

• Government Corruption
• Abuse of Power
• Oligarch influence - Ukraine has them too - the old privatisation voucher scheme as I mentioned before
• Police Brutality
• Human Rights Violations
• Repressive Anti Protest laws
• Restoration of the 2004 Ukraine Constitution

It boiled down to the failure of Yanukovych to sign the Political and Free Trade Agreement with the EU which was the catalyst or last straw - The Majority of Ukraine Citizens wanted it and the Verkhovna Rada (Ukraine Parliament) voted overwhelming to finalise it - Yanukovych under pressure from Moscow/Kremlin/Putin didn't sign it

The EU and US sent Diplomatic folk to Ukraine to meet with Yanukovych to convince him to negotiate a peace deal - Hardly the stance of folk supposedly behind the Revolution of Dignity/Maidan Revolution one would say.

The brokered peace deal by the EU/US involved Yanukovych signing a measure to return Ukraine to it's 2004 constitution - In 2010, Yanukovych restored the country's 1996 constitution, which hands greater power to the presidency. - No removal of him as President was part of this brokered peace deal

Of course Yanukovych failed to sign the measure and after a period of calmness he sent in the riot police - 82 people killed and over 1.100 injured. The protesters reformed in supporting the restoration of the 2004 Ukraine Constitution.

The Verkhovna Rada ( Ukraine Parliament) signed a decree condemning the use of force and for all Institutions to cease immediately all military actions against protesters.

Yanukovych knew the gig was up and fled the country - first saying he had resigned - then when in Russia ( Granted Political Asylum by Putin ) he rescinded the resignation and stated that any new elections would be Illegal as he was still the President. - The New Ukraine Government has issued a warrant for his arrest

The Verkhovna Rada ( Ukraine Parliament) voted 328 to 0 to remove Yanukovych from office - so did the the US/EU make them vote that way. Of course not

Of course Russia took advantage of this as we all know backing and arming Pro Russian Separatists and sending in the little green men ( Neo Nazi Wagner) to illegally annexe the Crimea and Donbas.

[Andrew Walker]

Cmon Paddo how does a "simple head count" of the UN seem "iffy" but your 90% of the world sympathises with Russia is legit? I mean even if you said it was fifty ftfty id want to see some real proof on that- but 90% is just pigs flying out of thin air stuff. Here is a study by Cambridge Uni that may give a better balance on how the world views affairs.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/worlddivided

Having said that im pretty much with you on everything else. Whilst i always maintained that the US meddling in others world affairs, such as they have in the middle east, has been the source of much of the worlds instability, i admit that i was wrong on how low the US can go.

I guess while MAGA supporters are strutting around like alpha males, events like last nights disastrous media conference helps take the spotlight off the House Republicans voting to advance a budget resolution that slashes Medicaid funding by nearly $1 trillion to provide tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and big corporations, paving the way for even deeper cuts of up to $2 trillion that would strip health care from tens of millions of Americans. Seems like the bill forgot to include abolishing tax on tips, overtime and social security. Oh well,bad luck

Disastrous media conference I thought it was glorious Trump put Zelensky well and truly in his rightful place

Now as for the reporter asking Zelensky Why he doesn’t wear a suit I say Bravo bravo bravo As it is something I’ve always wondered

[Random Rooster]

Disastrous media conference I thought it was glorious Trump put Zelensky well and truly in his rightful place

Now as for the reporter asking Zelensky Why he doesn’t wear a suit I say Bravo bravo bravo As it is something I’ve always wondered

Russia and their allies would agree with you Andy. Not that America's allies needed to be told where they stood with Uncle Sam, but the message has been well and truly rammed home now. Europe and Canada no longer see the US as the leader of the free world- maybe they never were but the US certainly don't have many friends left from the old alliances.

Wonder why that reporter didn't ask why a unelected person can show up to the oval office for a media conference to address the nation dressed in a t-shirt, a baseball cap and with his kid that was picking his nose and wiping it on Trumps desk. Same guy showed up at the first Republican cabinet conference dressed in the same garb. Somehow that's not disrespectful?

Maybe Paddo is right, Trump is showing the world Americas true colours.

As per usual, The Lincoln Project seem to nail it for what it really is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_mZbrbm9g