Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[King Salvo]

President Zelensky was being bullied by President Trump and Vice President Vance and more than held his own - 100% correct about the 2019 Minsk Agreement too - Russia has broken others as well.

2014 Minsk Agreement collapsed when At the start of January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regular military, which together with separatist forces of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) began a new offensive on Ukrainian-controlled areas, resulting in the complete collapse of the Minsk Protocol ceasefire.

2019 Minsk Agreement collapsed as well when Russia officially recognised the DPR (Donetsk Peoples Republic) and LPR ( Luhansk Peoples Republic) on 21st February 2022 and then on February 22 2022 Putin announced that the Minsk Agreements no longer existed. Russian then launched a full invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022.

Everyone knows about the sham referendums in the DPR and LPR.

Trumps proposed deal with Putin has a very much Munich Agreement feel about it - Czechoslovakia wasn't invited to that one and Ukraine wasn't to be invited to Trumps one either

The Munich Agreement was a treaty signed in Munich, Germany on September 30, 1938 by Britain, France, Italy, and Nazi Germany. The agreement allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a German-speaking region of Czechoslovakia. In exchange for Nazi Germany not making any more territorial claims in Northern Europe.

Hitler had no intention of adhering to the Munich agreement - Nazi Germany invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia and then Western Poland with the assistance of Stalin's Soviet Union who invaded Eastern Poland and then the Baltic States under the carve up of Western and Eastern Europe protocol also known as the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact ( Nazi Germany and Soviet Union Non Aggression Pact)

Does anyone really think that Putin would never make any more territorial claims in Eastern Europe?

Trump is channelling Neville Chamberlain "Peace in Our Time" - You don't negotiate with a despot dictator then or now.

[King Salvo]

Jeez Randy. Putin is highly popular in Russia, a Russian Jaxie would love him - strong man firm in his convictions, a man of action who won't take a backward step, uneasy around gays, like ol' Pete not reluctant to "speculate".

Maybe Netanyahu is first cab if we're talking war crimes.

Putin has no opposition the same as his many puppets - i.e Lukashenko in Belarus , Kadyrov in Chechnya , Tokayev in Kazakhstan - bit of a warning to Tokayev when Putin said that Kazakhstan is a Russian Speaking Country though - Russia owns/controls 30% of Kazakhstan's Uranium and Oil Production.

Any opposition to Putin and his Puppets somehow have "accidents" resulting in their passing and or end up in jail on made up charges

Putin is a war criminal - Ukraine and should also be for the Syrian Civil War in Russia's military backing the despot al-Assad regime - Amazing to watch al-Assad despot regime rule end as neither of his two main allies in Russia and Iran did a thing to stop it.

ICC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situati...vich-putin-and

Netanyahu is a resistance leader and not a war criminal at all and leads his country in resisting the never ending attacks by Islamic Jihadist Terrorist Groups whose manifesto is to destroy Israel and Kill all Jewish People World Wide.

[Rooster1908]

President Zelensky was being bullied by President Trump and Vice President Vance and more than held his own - 100% correct about the 2019 Minsk Agreement too - Russia has broken others as well.

2014 Minsk Agreement collapsed when At the start of January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regular military, which together with separatist forces of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) began a new offensive on Ukrainian-controlled areas, resulting in the complete collapse of the Minsk Protocol ceasefire.

2019 Minsk Agreement collapsed as well when Russia officially recognised the DPR (Donetsk Peoples Republic) and LPR ( Luhansk Peoples Republic) on 21st February 2022 and then on February 22 2022 Putin announced that the Minsk Agreements no longer existed. Russian then launched a full invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022.

Everyone knows about the sham referendums in the DPR and LPR.

Trumps proposed deal with Putin has a very much Munich Agreement feel about it - Czechoslovakia wasn't invited to that one and Ukraine wasn't to be invited to Trumps one either

The Munich Agreement was a treaty signed in Munich, Germany on September 30, 1938 by Britain, France, Italy, and Nazi Germany. The agreement allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a German-speaking region of Czechoslovakia. In exchange for Nazi Germany not making any more territorial claims in Northern Europe.

Hitler had no intention of adhering to the Munich agreement - Nazi Germany invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia and then Western Poland with the assistance of Stalin's Soviet Union who invaded Eastern Poland and then the Baltic States under the carve up of Western and Eastern Europe protocol also known as the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact ( Nazi Germany and Soviet Union Non Aggression Pact)

Does anyone really think that Putin would never make any more territorial claims in Eastern Europe?

Trump is channelling Neville Chamberlain "Peace in Our Time" - You don't negotiate with a despot dictator then or now.

They held him to Ramson Salvo , do what we tell ya to do or we will feed you to the wolves .That orange man is a piece of work but vance is such a slime .

[Paddo Colt 61]

hard to know what the fallout of the oval office meeting will be. i'm hoping it will be 'the disaster we had to have'. hopefully trump now realises that zelensky means business and they'll come to some sort of a deal. without the u.s. it's very hard for the west and, frankly, the western value of democracy.
trump wants to end the war which is great but trusts putin which is crazy. even if trump thinks he can keep putin to any deal he makes trump won't be around in four years time and putin will want to eat the rest of ukraine up, not to mention the baltic states.
vance's intervention wasn't helpful. what does zelensky have to thank trump for? praise him for saying that he, zelensky, started the war? thank him for calling him, zelensky, a dictator?
i thought zelensky put his position well under pressure. trump's idea of peace is giving in to putin. that would end the war now with unjust outcomes and is unlikely to lead to a long lasting peace

Are you a young person Caz? M/F? Sorry, others here probably know you well but don't recall you. You express a few msm ideas there very confidently, obviously strongly held personally. What's your view of the Chinese warships?

[caz]

Are you a young person Caz? M/F? Sorry, others here probably know you well but don't recall you. You express a few msm ideas there very confidently, obviously strongly held personally. What's your view of the Chinese warships?

sure, i'm a young person, male and female. whatever.
the chinese warships? hard for us to complain about them being here when we go to the south china sea. seems like the chinese could have given more warning but that's a bit hazy

[Paddo Colt 61]

Well that's reassuring. I asked before because I didn't know how brutal/indulgent I should be to a female or young new member in posting a comment. How do you know these things about Putin? Has the thought that it might be contrived occurred to you?

[Andrew Walker]

Well that's reassuring. I asked before because I didn't know how brutal/indulgent I should be to a female or young new member in posting a comment. How do you know these things about Putin? Has the thought that it might be contrived occurred to you?

Caz is not new He used to post as zac He’s also not young I know this from his posts as Zac He’s always come across as quite the leftist bordering on a communist ideology

[Random Rooster]

Well that's reassuring. I asked before because I didn't know how brutal/indulgent I should be to a female or young new member in posting a comment. How do you know these things about Putin? Has the thought that it might be contrived occurred to you?

Could have been. I mean i was looking forward to Russia's most outspoken Putin critic, Alexei Navalny, being exposed as a Nazi criminal who hid behind smoke and mirrors of the anti-corruption foundation he founded in 2011, being recognised by Amnesty International as a prisoner of conscience and being awarded the Sakharov Prize for his work on human rights. However at the age of 43, he died suddenly while taking a walk in the prison yard. Shit happens i guess. The fact it happens to anyone who gains momentum in opposing Putin is just a co-incidence- or maybe they are still alive and MSM is just lying to us? Maybe it's Putin's enemies setting him up and killing his opponents so sheep like me think it had something to do with Putin? The possibilities are endless!

[Paddo Colt 61]

The possibilities are pretty much endless and we know that because we've been subjected to a never ending stream of Russia horror stories since 1917 and still going . The diff is that Russia is no longer communist but State Department demonisation is not restricted to "communists", look at the treatment of Saddam, Gaddafi, Zelenski and that devout freedom fighter, Osama. Whichever state is a competitor/ideological rival or simply standing in the way of US interests is degraded with lurid stories of all kinds of mendacity. It's called "Manufacturing Consent".

What you and MSmedia suggest re Vlad could be true but who would know? I don't know and I don't form rigid opinions on maybes. One thing for sure, I don't trust US propaganda - WMDs anyone?

[King Salvo]

Just unlucky for Putin's opponents who haven't fled Russia or gone into exile to "accidentally" die from beatings in custody plus "accidental blunt force trauma" , poisonings, shootings, falls from windows, and even in plane crashes.

How unlucky can be people be?

Took Putin's despot regime 2 attempts to "accidentally" get rid of Alexei Navalny but only 1 for Yevgeny Prigozhin ( Head of Neo Nazi Wagner - The Kremlins private paramilitary militia) - very convenient for Putin that Dmitry Utkin and other Senior Wagner leaders were also on board that flight

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/...ief-wsj-a83526

Ah yes a list of Putin's opponents - the crosses are the one's that will no longer cause any problems to Putin's despot regime - all "accidents" of course

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposi...utin_in_Russia

[ism22]

136 countries offered assistance to the USA after 9/11. Can't remember any of them asking for their money 'back' or saying 'hey heeey... Bin Laden's a standup bloke!!! Sure he bombs buildings and stuff but that's because the US provoked him by taking sides in Israel! He's just protecting his own turf... you've gotta see things through his eyes, rather than through the lens of western propaganda. Oh and he bailed out a $$$ business I inherited from my dad so my hands are tied to the point where I can't criticise him. So that's that! Kiss the ring or get farked'.

Chump will eventually unfold. He's worse than bankrupt because he's now just a puppet of a dictator, who any other US president woulda been a million times more powerful than. Those who are currently prancing around as 'alpha males' are gonna eventually snap out of it and realise they're complete idiots who've been duped by Chump's bollocks.

[King Salvo]

There is a history of this though "Lend Lease" - I remember reading and or seeing on a documentary that Britain paid off the final instalment of it's lend lease loan to the US in 2006.

53% of Ukraine's mineral resources including gas and oil reserves are located in regions illegally annexed by Russia - The major Soledar Salt mine in the Donetsk Oblasts was captured by Putin's private army ( Wagner).

Trump is pretty naïve to think that his mate Putin won't mind giving the US access to these resources when these are still illegally in Russian hands.

The invasion of Ukraine was never about "Nazi's" and NATO it was purely a land grab for these mostly untapped resources plus Ukraine's fertile soil and sea ports access

Ukraine is known as the "bread basket" of Europe - A major world producer of grain crops like wheat, barley, and corn. The Sevastopol Sea port (Crimea) is a vital port for the Russian Navy - It's the HQ of Russia's Black Sea Fleet - Sevastopol is a warm water port on the Black Sea which does not freeze over in winter

[Random Rooster]

Marco Rubio on the promise of the US to protect Ukraine. Must be a different Marco Rubio from the one that was interviewed by CNN in your post?

https://youtu.be/3ADT1DVnvK4

[Random Rooster]

[Random Rooster]