Minus Western propaganda what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[ism22]

I think you are inside this guy's head Comrade.

It's all cheap tricky from Paeddo... nyuk nyuk nyuk

[Paddo Colt 61]

All of this ranting and diversion regarding the alleged evils of the Soviet Union and modern day Russia represents a failure to face the fact that Russia had/has a mighty security concern and that 90% of world opinion agrees with it. It is only the West, the ex Imperialists led by the USA that promotes the fiction that the war was unprovoked. Even Malcolm Fraser foresaw it. Time to address that basic issue fellas unless the motive is to confuse the issue (for the average reader on this site) until it is beyond discussion. The King focuses on anti Communist stuff that most people have internalised over time so cognitive dissonance shuts down any further thought by them and our totally biased media dominated by the company that sold us WMDs doesn't help at all.

Propaganda is egregious. This week a Ukrainian government official was forced to resign and received death threats after he told the truth about a rocket "attack" on an apartment block which resulted in several civilian deaths. Ukrainian air defence had clipped the missile causing it to crash and explode where it did, civilians were not its target.

Few should lament the recent death of former Major General and ex senator (LNP - what else?) Jim Molam who was the OIC of the brutal attack on Fallujah during the illegal Iraq War. The attack was a war crime with thousands of civilians killed and the city destroyed and it was pretty much reported as such by the New York Times and other media (not including any here it must be said). Total arsehole like most military officers and we're better off with his passing.

[King Salvo]

All of this ranting and diversion regarding the alleged evils of the Soviet Union and modern day Russia represents a failure to face the fact that Russia had/has a mighty security concern and that 90% of world opinion agrees with it. It is only the West, the ex Imperialists led by the USA that promotes the fiction that the war was unprovoked. Even Malcolm Fraser foresaw it. Time to address that basic issue fellas unless the motive is to confuse the issue (for the average reader on this site) until it is beyond discussion. The King focuses on anti Communist stuff that most people have internalised over time so cognitive dissonance shuts down any further thought by them and our totally biased media dominated by the company that sold us WMDs doesn't help at all.

Propaganda is egregious. This week a Ukrainian government official was forced to resign and received death threats after he told the truth about a rocket "attack" on an apartment block which resulted in several civilian deaths. Ukrainian air defence had clipped the missile causing it to crash and explode where it did, civilians were not its target.

Few should lament the recent death of former Major General and ex senator (LNP - what else?) Jim Molam who was the OIC of the brutal attack on Fallujah during the illegal Iraq War. The attack was a war crime with thousands of civilians killed and the city destroyed and it was pretty much reported as such by the New York Times and other media (not including any here it must be said). Total arsehole like most military officers and we're better off with his passing.

Comrade Paddo your Russian Propaganda and General Propaganda is like Swiss Cheese plenty of holes in it- Fact is this was an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation .

The Apartment Complex in Dnipro was struck by a Russian Missile and zero to do with Ukraine Air defence and to attempt to defend Russia and shift the blame over this is unbelievable and down right callous - the building was hit by a Russian Kh-22 missile, which Ukraine does not have the capability to shoot down.

The official in question is not a Military person or expert and merely suggested it could have been shot down by Kyiv which he later admitted was a fundamental error on his part so he did the right thing and tendered his resignation

You listen to and read way too much Russian and General Propaganda from fictional sources such as Lavrov and Stalinist Little Legs Putin and associated lackeys of the regime including the websites you frequent.

As for Major General Molan he was a Great Australian and Military Officer and may he Rest in peace - absolutely unbelievable and utterly disrespectful remarks about him and his passing.

It does show though the ideology of the people Ukraine are fighting against as you an example of that - Completely and Totally brainwashed on Anti-West Propaganda - A rather Black Hearted Person

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Senator Jim Molan was a pretty amazing Australian, and God knows we need a lot more like him. Served his country militarily for 40 years, than ventured into public service again for his country as a bold and patriotic Senator. A giver, not a taker. I pine that his ilk may be bred out.

A key player in Operation Sovereign Borders (yes ours to manage), a staunch advocate against the Chinese communist threat in our region, and a voice of reason comdemning the insanity to demonise fossil fuels.

Too many medals to mention. A proud legacy, rest well brave man.

[King Salvo]

Wow a Russian on Russian National TV saying this - mmm he better not go near any windows

The "special military operation" was a disastrous mistake and it is a senseless situation leading the country to a dead end.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1615993220265308160

[mightyrooster]

Totally unnecessary comments about Jim Molan there Paddo. It shouldn’t matter whether you agree with his politics or not, if you can’t show respect when someone recently passes away, it’s best to say nothing at all.

[King Salvo]

Putin repeats Hitler's speech word for word. And this is not the first time. For example, Putin's speech after the occupation of Crimea is a plagiarism of Hitler's speech about the occupation of Austria.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1615781853541146624

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Totally unnecessary comments about Jim Molan there Paddo. It shouldn’t matter whether you agree with his politics or not, if you can’t show respect when someone recently passes away, it’s best to say nothing at all.

Absolutely MR.

[Paddo Colt 61]

All of the peas are out of the pod and, citing no evidence whatsoever, comes the claim that we have lost a great Australian. Mark Latham is not usually quotable but he did memorably comment, regarding soldier boys, that he had never met one who wasn't a meathead.

Ol' Jimmy Molam planned and commanded the deadly assault on Fallujah while embedded in the illegal US occupying force. Fallujah is notorious for widespread reports of war crimes including the use of White Phosphorus which Western media hypocritically decried when Sadam used it saying that there was no better reason for regime change. It is an atrocious weapon that burns into the body and keeps burning until its oxygen supply runs out. We are signatories to a ban on its use when civilians are involved. Molam was the planner of that.

People, excepting all males 14 to 45, were ordered to leave the city but many chose to remain with their menfolk and about 50,000 civilians were there when the attack began. Electricity and water were cut off and the Red Cross was prevented from entering. During the assault the hospital was occupied to prevent reports of civilian casualties and staff and patients were bound and left without water and food. Ambulances were fired on and American snipers killed women and children in the streets and also civilians showing white flags The UN was highly critical of the whole operation which was planned and coordinated by our very own "great Australian".

There is little evidence that resistance in the city was anything more than ordinary people reacting to an invasion they saw as illegal. Shades of the Ukraine it would seem.

Relatively few insurgents were found, most had scarpered before the attack but 70% of the city was destroyed and thousands were dead. International law states that a commander is responsible if he knew or should have known that war crimes were committed on his watch.

Then our hero's back in Oz planning to circumvent the UN Charter on Refugees to which we are signatories.

One should not criticise the dead when the deceased is a Right Wing champion? What hypocrisy. Get your hands of it.

[King Salvo]

All of the peas are out of the pod and, citing no evidence whatsoever, comes the claim that we have lost a great Australian. Mark Latham is not usually quotable but he did memorably comment, regarding soldier boys, that he had never met one who wasn't a meathead.

Ol' Jimmy Molam planned and commanded the deadly assault on Fallujah while embedded in the illegal US occupying force. Fallujah is notorious for widespread reports of war crimes including the use of White Phosphorus which Western media hypocritically decried when Sadam used it saying that there was no better reason for regime change. It is an atrocious weapon that burns into the body and keeps burning until its oxygen supply runs out. We are signatories to a ban on its use when civilians are involved. Molam was the planner of that.

People, excepting all males 14 to 45, were ordered to leave the city but many chose to remain with their menfolk and about 50,000 civilians were there when the attack began. Electricity and water were cut off and the Red Cross was prevented from entering. During the assault the hospital was occupied to prevent reports of civilian casualties and staff and patients were bound and left without water and food. Ambulances were fired on and American snipers killed women and children in the streets and also civilians showing white flags The UN was highly critical of the whole operation which was planned and coordinated by our very own "great Australian".

There is little evidence that resistance in the city was anything more than ordinary people reacting to an invasion they saw as illegal. Shades of the Ukraine it would seem.

Relatively few insurgents were found, most had scarpered before the attack but 70% of the city was destroyed and thousands were dead. International law states that a commander is responsible if he knew or should have known that war crimes were committed on his watch.

Then our hero's back in Oz planning to circumvent the UN Charter on Refugees to which we are signatories.

One should not criticise the dead when the deceased is a Right Wing champion? What hypocrisy. Get your hands of it.

Interesting comments again from the Anti -West Pro Authoritarian and Totalitarian regime and Ideology mouth piece Comrade Paddo

Gees using the irrelevant Mark Latham now for your references and whose comments were unanimously described by all sides of legitimate politics as " absolutely insensitive and inappropriate and stand condemned".

Ah yes for obviously reasons you omitted that there were thousands of Insurgents in Fullujah not a few ordinary people - Al Qaeda / Islamic Army in Iraq/ Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna/ 1920 Revolution Brigades/ Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party – Iraq Region/ Mahdi Army ( Chechen Mujaheddin)

mmm few insurgents found - Up to 2000 insurgents killed and 1500 insurgents captured with countless others including senior insurgent commanders escaping prior to or during the fighting.

Little resistance mmm - Battle of Fallujah - 7 November – 23 December 2004 (1 month, 2 weeks and 2 days)

The Coalition military used leaflets and broadcasts to encourage the remaining civilians to leave the city before the assault and up-to 90% fled the City .

In fact it was the Insurgents who stopped the remaining citizens from leaving - preferring to use them as human shields as reported by UNHRC - UN Refugee Agency who happened to be there

Ordinary people don't prepare for a battle as follows one has to say.

The Iraqi insurgents and foreign Mujahideen present in the city prepared fortified defenses in advance of the anticipated attack. They dug tunnels, trenches, prepared spider holes, and built and hid a wide variety of IED'S.

In some locations they filled the interiors of darkened homes with large numbers of propane bottles, large drums of gasoline, and ordnance, all wired to a remote trigger that could be set off by an insurgent when troops entered the building.

They blocked streets with Jersey Barriers and even emplaced them within homes to create strong points behind which they could attack unsuspecting troops entering the building. Insurgents were equipped with a variety of advanced small arms,and had captured a variety of U.S. armament, including M14s, M16s, body armor, uniforms and helmets.^[39]

They booby-trapped buildings and vehicles, including wiring doors and windows to grenades and other ordnance. Anticipating U.S. tactics to seize the roof of high buildings, they bricked up stairwells to the roofs of many buildings, creating paths into prepared fields of fire which they hoped the troops would enter



RIP the Great Australian Major General and Senator Andrew James Molan (Jim Molan) - We Salute You for your distinguished service in both the Military and in Civilian Life.

[ism22]

All of the peas are out of the pod and, citing no evidence whatsoever, comes the claim that we have lost a great Australian. Mark Latham is not usually quotable but he did memorably comment, regarding soldier boys, that he had never met one who wasn't a meathead.

1. Russia is invading Ukraine as we speak. I don't think we need further evidence of this, or Russia's rhetoric (which a baby could deconstruct, but apparently you and your buddy John Menadue struggle with this mammoth task).

2. Mark Latham is not quotable. Oh sorry here we go again... ad hominem attacks... how dare I call Mark Latham a bitter fark... I forgot that he's held a bunch of senior roles and is a 'heavyweight' whose opinions must be critically analysed rather than ignored on the basis that he's an unreliable source.

3. Major General's not a 'soldier boy' rank.

[Paddo Colt 61]

You've only read half the Wiki lising King. Scroll down to "controversies". White phosphorus, depleted uranium - War crimes. And it wasn't even a victory longterm!

Prepared defences? IUDs? Those cunning, evil Arab bastards, how dare they try to defend themselves. It was an illegal invasion based on an outright lie you dill.

[ism22]

You've only read half the Wiki lising King. Scroll down to "controversies". White phosphorus, depleted uranium - War crimes. And it wasn't a victory!

Then you read Vlad Putin's wiki and there's a controversy or two. Lets just ignore those though and...

1. Call an outright unilateral invasion of Ukraine for the purpose of conquest (with zero basis under international law) a 'special operation' and gloss over the fact it's completely barbaric, while blaming the USA / Ukraine for it. Yes sure there'd be no conflict if Ukraine just handed over its capital city to Russia and let Russia install a puppet government. A two year old can explain to you why that's not acceptable because I lack the patience.

2. Call a multilateral peacekeeping mission to enforce a 2002 UN resolution an 'illegal invasion of Iraq'. While I accept that this argument exists, I think CONTEXT is very important!!! The government was commanding terrorist cells to attack citizens and endorsed a guy who flew planes into US landmarks as an act of terror. I'm all for due process but how many UN resolutions do you need when people are dying at the hands of a terrorist-run state that has repeatedly refused to comply with unanimous UN ceasefire resolutions? IMO you're clutching at straws to suggest the US had absolutely no basis behind the said peacekeeping mission (which was a peacekeeping mission!!! The goal was to protect citizens and shut down terrorist organisations... not to steal land/resources from Iraq).

If you can't see how putting the two in the same basket, while over-emphasising the alleged illegality of the latter (and ignoring the blatant illegality of the former) then you're cooked. That grass you're smoking must be some serious hydroponic shyte, comrade!

[Andrew Walker]

With the so called goal being to protect citizens in Iraq they did a miserable job of it They left an absolute mess The only Iraqis I know who lived there at the time have just as much disdain for Saddam as they did the USA The stories I’ve been told are chilling They had a good happy life before the West decided they needed protecting

Jiz I credited you with far more intelligence than Point 2 in your last post.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

Then you read Vlad Putin's wiki and there's a controversy or two. Lets just ignore those though and...

1. Call an outright unilateral invasion of Ukraine for the purpose of conquest (with zero basis under international law) a 'special operation' and gloss over the fact it's completely barbaric, while blaming the USA / Ukraine for it. Yes sure there'd be no conflict if Ukraine just handed over its capital city to Russia and let Russia install a puppet government. A two year old can explain to you why that's not acceptable because I lack the patience.

2. Call a multilateral peacekeeping mission to enforce a 2002 UN resolution an 'illegal invasion of Iraq'. While I accept that this argument exists, I think CONTEXT is very important!!! The government was commanding terrorist cells to attack citizens and endorsed a guy who flew planes into US landmarks as an act of terror. I'm all for due process but how many UN resolutions do you need when people are dying at the hands of a terrorist-run state that has repeatedly refused to comply with unanimous UN ceasefire resolutions? IMO you're clutching at straws to suggest the US had absolutely no basis behind the said peacekeeping mission (which was a peacekeeping mission!!! The goal was to protect citizens and shut down terrorist organisations... not to steal land/resources from Iraq).

If you can't see how putting the two in the same basket, while over-emphasising the alleged illegality of the latter (and ignoring the blatant illegality of the former) then you're cooked. That grass you're smoking must be some serious hydroponic shyte, comrade!

Wonderfully summarised in your second para Ism, but its going to have the conspiratists wetting their pants. Big bad US of A...