The China Thing - are we on the wrong side of history?

[ism22]

There was another proverb. Keep talking and it will come to me...

[ism22]

Thought this was a good video for you BTW bro...

https://youtu.be/EyPPi3xRjuw

[Paddo Colt 61]

There is an excellent piece on the drift to war with China by Phill Hynes on johnmenadue.com today. Hynes lists the premeditated steps that have been taken or have been led by the US and which, clearly, will lead us into war presumably in the not too far distant future given the current goading which is going on. Lamentably, the Labor government seems wedged by our Right Wing US dominated "Security" services and is compelled to follow suit or else 1974 again. Then again, Labor has its share of Right Wingers too. Meanwhile the Sheeple amble on unconcerned and even hostile to any criticism of the US and that unconcern is encouraged by a war monger American citizen with a near monopoly control of our mass media. It is dangerous for Australia to be so closely allied to the US.

The thought occurred that Scomo's recently revealed accumulation of powers to himself with the connivance of our soldier boy Governor General may have been in anticipation of global hostilities. The PM declares war on our behalf after all, there's no debate about it? Then again, his motive might have been to take full charge when the Rapture arrives - not far off I'm told. Someone will have to guard those buses to Heaven, we can't all have a seat. What a nutcase government we've had for the last 10 years.

[ism22]

John Menadue's got NFI and is best ignored.

That aside, it's worth mentioning that during my most recent visit to Japan, I met a range of Chinese and Taiwanese immigrants. They were all friends and the Chinese people happily volunteered that Taiwan's a different country with a different culture/language. In Japanese they call Taiwan's language 'Taiwanese' (plus the people are Taiwanese... there's a traditional Chinese character for the country).

We didn't talk politics but they all thought I was Russian so I got a taste of their thoughts/feelings (I had a few business owners spooked coz a big white dude with a mask on was walking around the place, going into bars and talking to randoms... the Chinese shop owners all said that all Russians are violent and they're scared of them starting). Once I said I was Australian (none of them understand the Japanese word for 'Australia' so I had to show them on a map), their faces all lit up, they smiled and it was like 'yeah we're all friends here'.

A few remarked that Chinese... Taiwanese... Australians... we're all friends. It's the politicians who are all full of shyte and we'd all be better off without geopolitics.

My personal conclusion is that John Menadue needs to go out and have a Chinese massaji as he's way too tense and there's never a happy ending to his stories.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Jeez, Fishermen, Taiwanese immigrants, Russian haters all with sagacious views on geopolitics that match your own carefully considered positions. I keep telling you, Menadue hosts the site, contributors are Australian former diplomats, academics and experienced journalists whose opinions you'll never read in our MSM - too complicated for devotees of reality TV. Admittedly, they're not up to the sophisticated standard of those Fisher folk but there you go. I cite Menadue because, given their backgrounds, contributors are credible and can't be cited as wing nuts.
You're another cancel man -ism and one inclined to subject anyone foolish enough to listen/read to verbal diarrhea. Hopefully others might be justifiably concerned about our alliances, that arch radical Malcolm Fraser was - concerned enough to write a book!

[ism22]

Jeez, Fishermen, Taiwanese immigrants, Russian haters all with sagacious views on geopolitics that match your own carefully considered positions. I keep telling you, Menadue hosts the site, contributors are Australian former diplomats, academics and experienced journalists whose opinions you'll never read in our MSM - too complicated for devotees of reality TV. Admittedly, they're not up to the sophisticated standard of those Fisher folk but there you go. I cite Menadue because, given their backgrounds, contributors are credible and can't be cited as wing nuts.
You're another cancel man -ism and one inclined to subject anyone foolish enough to listen/read to verbal diarrhea. Hopefully others might be justifiably concerned about our alliances, that arch radical Malcolm Fraser was - concerned enough to write a book!

Jeez a bunch of geriatrics who post on a site owned by John Menadue keep spewing out a bunch of pro-authoritarianism 'opinion' pieces that view democracies (all over the world) as being evil and dictatorships as being benevolent mothers that are just looking for ways to reunite with their children.

All I can say is that this is a FORUM (i.e. we're here to discuss opinions) and my opinions are shaped by the people I've met along the way (hint: not John Menadue).

I stand by my point that Menadue's stuff (whether written by him personally or endorsed by his website) is out of touch and doesn't reflect what anybody's saying on the street.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Are you drunk -ism?Anybody on the street? Gotta be kiddin'. When Adlai Stevenson was running for the US Presidency in the 50s a well wisher called "I'm voting for you and so is every intelligent American" to which he replied "Thanks but I'll need a majority".

[A Country Member]

There’s a lot of hate out there comrade.
The soft US power is like a malignant cancer.

[mightyrooster]

Jeez a bunch of geriatrics who post on a site owned by John Menadue keep spewing out a bunch of pro-authoritarianism 'opinion' pieces that view democracies (all over the world) as being evil and dictatorships as being benevolent mothers that are just looking for ways to reunite with their children.

All I can say is that this is a FORUM (i.e. we're here to discuss opinions) and my opinions are shaped by the people I've met along the way (hint: not John Menadue).

I stand by my point that Menadue's stuff (whether written by him personally or endorsed by his website) is out of touch and doesn't reflect what anybody's saying on the street.

I think I’ll quit before I start. I don’t feel like bashing my head against a brick wall again.

[Johnny Brass]

China's treatment of some of its close neighbours hasn't been to their best interests.
The multiple dams they have constructed upstream of the Mekong has effectively given them the power to turn the tap off for what is the lifeline for those in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Thailand at their whim.
Whenever the people vote in a candidate that opposes the thai/chinese elite that includes the royal family the army performs a coup at the elites beckoning in Thailand. Education levels are kept low deliberately as a means to control and the Lese-majeste laws implemented to silence any criticism of the royal family.
The Chinese government have had close ties with the thai military in stemming any opposition and and winning contracts that benefit them financially.
Pre covid Thailand had become swamped with chinese tour groups on package deals where they stay and eat in only chinese owned establishments which does little to benefit the everyday citizens.
In Cambodia they did similar building casinos only using chinese labour to cater for their tourists that has ruined Sihanoukville.
Democracy has been crushed in Myanmar by the military with China's help.
Not many benefits for the average Joe Blow in those countries by China's involvement Paddo.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Absent evidence for most of what you write as well as the ubiquitous pall of Western anti China propaganda, I really can't comment beyond saying that China may think that the internal affairs other nations are their own business unlike the US which has engineered regime change 29 times since the war and is still at it in the Ukraine and in HK and Taiwan which are internationally recognised as parts of China.
Like most humans, the Chinese are ethnocentric - they don't like Thai food? Try Americans for parochialism, they're the world champs.
Dammed river disputes occur in all countries that share borders - Egypt?
What is clear is that, like most sheeple, you've swallowed the Cool Aid big time and are, presumably more than happy to see your children off to war on behalf of a failing World hegemon, one with an appalling record for violence to boot.

[eddie]

The problem with colt, like a lot of lefties, is they go too far the other way.
I've got nothing good to say about Americas influence on politics or culture, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna piss in Chinas pocket.
Who'd prefer to live in Hong Kong after the lease expired as to before?
Does Taiwan think they'd be better off under a corrupt communist regime?
Was Tianamen Square an example of a better form of government?
Both America and China are trade bullies that are corrupt at the highest levels.

[mightyrooster]

The problem with colt, like a lot of lefties, is they go too far the other way.
I've got nothing good to say about Americas influence on politics or culture, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna piss in Chinas pocket.
Who'd prefer to live in Hong Kong after the lease expired as to before?
Does Taiwan think they'd be better off under a corrupt communist regime?
Was Tianamen Square an example of a better form of government?
Both America and China are trade bullies that are corrupt at the highest levels.

Exactly Eddie. Just because you can see and agree that the US are bullies does not automatically mean China (or Russia) are poor innocent victims. Because clearly neither are.
Also, I'm sure Tiananmen Square was just orchestrated by the corrupt western media so as to brainwash us dumbos for life.

[Johnny Brass]

Absent evidence for most of what you write as well as the ubiquitous pall of Western anti China propaganda, I really can't comment beyond saying that China may think that the internal affairs other nations are their own business unlike the US which has engineered regime change 29 times since the war and is still at it in the Ukraine and in HK and Taiwan which are internationally recognised as parts of China.
Like most humans, the Chinese are ethnocentric - they don't like Thai food? Try Americans for parochialism, they're the world champs.
Dammed river disputes occur in all countries that share borders - Egypt?
What is clear is that, like most sheeple, you've swallowed the Cool Aid big time and are, presumably more than happy to see your children off to war on behalf of a failing World hegemon, one with an appalling record for violence to boot.

No absence of evidence Paddo, everything I've stated has happened and I've witnessed through travelling through all those countries mentioned and taken an interest in.
I advocate all young people to travel and see how others live and experience different cultures to broaden their life and thought processes otherwise they end up with a very narrow view on life as you seem to.
I'm not the one pushing for war yet you are happy to see Vlad blowing a neighbour to rubble.
The problem when the likes of Putin and Xi give themselves jobs for life is that they want to be remembered in history and leave a lasting legacy and that usually involves military expansion.
It's looking likely that there will be some sort of showdown over Taiwan shortly which isnt good for anyone and hopefully can be resolved peacefully. Im not a fan of the yanks and their foreign interferences either and in many respects the Chinese government is following the path that big American multinationals have done in building infrastructure that poor countries can never repay.
I'll have a crack at cool aid as long as a shot of vodka accompanies it.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Re Tiananmen Square, The Pandora Papers (google it) contained descriptions from Western observers on the spot, some from the American embassy, who say they saw no evidence of the sort of charges that are made by the US. You need to read it. No deaths, Tankman lived.

I'm always surprised on here that some people run the same line and when evidence to the contrary is proffered, they ignore it. It's a very basic, even crude, way of dealing with cognitive dissonance.

Same goes for Johnny Brass and the popular view of China that he reflects. It should be popular it's propagated as gospel by our Right Wing media and has, accordingly, become deeply entrenched. We saw the propagators in action at the Chinese Ambassador's visit to the National Press Club - rude, inattentive and aggressive. Maybe it's a legacy of what White Australia did to us. We've always been frightened by Asia.

I have long touted johnmenadue.com. The people who contribute, and Menadue himself, are no mugs. They've been at top of our Public Service and our universities, they're not ratbags or big mouths. I ask you Johnny Boy to read some of the China articles there and to look at the credentials of the contributor. Don't be "Ah fcuk that, I already know!". Unless you do that there's really no point to us dialoguing is there apart from you wanting to yell at a Lefty?