Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=King Salvo; Comrade Paddo when are you enlisting in Little Legs Putin's army of the unwilling - sign up for 12 months and survive and you are rewarded with Russian Federation Citizenship?

A killer blow right there King you cunning devil you.

[A Country Member]

No but just as bad, a John Pilger article from 2014. Available on johnmenadue.com. Cripes...not a lot of freedom round here it seems.

Here is the original article as published by The Guardian.
Bloody msm

[ism22]

A factual summary can be found here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

[Hint: having a policy of locking up Russia spies doesn't make a government 'Nazis'. Vlad is not Jewish and it's not accurate to say that Ukraine being politically independent from Russia is a form of cultural clensing].

In short...

What was Putin's original goal?
The Russian leader's initial aim was to overrun Ukraine and depose its government, ending for good its desire to join the Western defensive alliance Nato. After a month of failures, he abandoned his bid to capture the capital Kyiv and turned his ambitions to Ukraine's east and south.
...
The claims of Nazis and genocide in Ukraine are completely unfounded but part of a narrative repeated by Russia for years. "It's crazy, sometimes not even they can explain what they are referring to," complained Ukraine's foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba.
...
How have Putin's aims changed?
A month into the invasion, Russia pulled back from Kyiv and declared its main goal was the "liberation of Donbas" - broadly referring to Ukraine's eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk. More than a third of this area was already seized by Russian proxy forces in a war that began in 2014, now Russia wanted to conquer all of it.
...
How Putin sees Ukraine
Since Ukraine achieved independence in 1991, as the Soviet Union collapsed, it has gradually looked to the West - both the EU and Nato.

Russia's leader has sought to reverse that, seeing the fall of the Soviet Union as the "disintegration of historical Russia". He has claimed Russians and Ukrainians are one people, denying Ukraine its long history and seeing today's independent state merely as an "anti-Russia project". "Ukraine never had stable traditions of genuine statehood," he asserted.
...
What next for Russia itself?
Russia has tried to silence dissent. Protest of any kind is banned and more than 15,000 people have been detained. "The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors," said President Putin.

There has been a big exodus of IT workers and other professionals and the political opposition has either fled or been jailed, as in the case of opposition leader Alexei Navalny.

A wide array of Western sanctions threaten to contract Russia's economy by up to 10% this year and hike inflation by more than 20%:

[Random Rooster]

Here is the original article as published by The Guardian.
Bloody msm

In Ukraine, the US is dragging us towards war with Russia | John Pilger | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com

Yes i seen Pilger's documentary called The Coming War on China ( that's right "ON" China- makes no doubt about who is the victim is!! )

Un-surprisingly Pilger's hatred for the United States led him to produce a piece that made apologies for Chinese totalitarianism, distorts the truth about Asian politics, and portrays China as a passive victim of a new international power struggle.

His love of all things China is matched by his love of all things Russia. Pilger's views are often aired by Russian State TV alongside Tucker Carlsons and most of his Fox News colleagues pro Putin- push......good luck to them!

[Paddo Colt 61]

Take off the blinkers boys, check the emotional impulses and, fgs, cite some sources with a little credibility. Bet both of you would have been and are gung ho for Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Cuba, Venezuela and now the Yemen. In fact, as Pilger points out, an enemy of the US is any community independent of Western power and occupying territory that is strategically important or rich in resources, so there will be future invasions and enemies for you to fall into line on - "Sheeple" comes vividly to mind.

Good work Count re the Pilger article. The sheep...., I should say people, should have the opportunity to read objectively the reports and opinions of a highly awarded journalist who does not rely on any right wing press baron for his bread and butter and does not accept US media reports at face value.

[Random Rooster]

Pilger is a sensationalist. He will generally go against the grain even if it means ignoring facts. It appeals to the ego's of the intellectual nobodies who think they can see through the general consensus.

[Rooster1908]

Pilger is a sensationalist. He will generally go against the grain even if it means ignoring facts. It appeals to the ego's of the intellectual nobodies who think they can see through the general consensus.

So Pc could well be this Pilger then . Interesting

[Random Rooster]

So Pc could well be this Pilger then . Interesting

no no....this is Pilger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHash5takWU

Although PC may be in the audience

[mightyrooster]

Pilger is a sensationalist. He will generally go against the grain even if it means ignoring facts. It appeals to the ego's of the intellectual nobodies who think they can see through the general consensus.

Hmm that second sentence reminds me of someone around here….
Actually there’s two of them, always coming to each other’s aid on matters of China and Russia.

[ism22]

Yes i seen Pilger's documentary called The Coming War on China ( that's right "ON" China- makes no doubt about who is the victim is!! )

Un-surprisingly Pilger's hatred for the United States led him to produce a piece that made apologies for Chinese totalitarianism, distorts the truth about Asian politics, and portrays China as a passive victim of a new international power struggle.

His love of all things China is matched by his love of all things Russia. Pilger's views are often aired by Russian State TV alongside Tucker Carlsons and most of his Fox News colleagues pro Putin- push......good luck to them!

> On the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal on 4 March 2018, Pilger said in an interview on Russia's RT: "This is a carefully constructed drama as part of the propaganda campaign that has been building now for several years in order to justify the actions of NATO, Britain and the United States, towards Russia. That’s a fact". Such events as the Iraq War, "at the very least should make us sceptical [of the UK government]...

...

> Pilger wrote in December 2002, of British broadcasting's requirement for "impartiality" as being "a euphemism for the consensual view of established authority". He wrote that "BBC television news faithfully echoed word for word" government "propaganda"...

---

A familiar playbook, noting he's literally being quoted/endorsed by Russia's state-controlled media.

1. Ignore anything bad that Russia's doing and claim that actually 'the west' might actually be doing these things, not Russia (even when it makes no logical/factual sense).

2. Claim all western commentary (from a vast range of countries and competing sources that are ideological opposites) is 'propaganda'. Yep BBC / KGB... same thing. Gotcha. Instead cite random white monkeys.

3. Finish off by changing the topic and trying to talk about whether the war in Iraq was the right decision, to intentionally distract discussions away from whether or not Russia invading Ukraine is okay. Demand that this false dichotomy of Iraq war v Ukraine was be debated rather than debating something along the lines of 'Russia attacking Ukraine... good or evil?'

[Random Rooster]

> On the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal on 4 March 2018, Pilger said in an interview on Russia's RT: "This is a carefully constructed drama as part of the propaganda campaign that has been building now for several years in order to justify the actions of NATO, Britain and the United States, towards Russia. That’s a fact". Such events as the Iraq War, "at the very least should make us sceptical [of the UK government]...

Yes this sort of conspiracy type rubbish from Pilger really tells you plenty about his credibility.

An "independent" reporter doesn't always equal a " non biased " reporter

[A Country Member]

Yes this sort of conspiracy type rubbish from Pilger really tells you plenty about his credibility.

An "independent" reporter doesn't always equal a " non biased " reporter

Totes Random.

Why do you believe it was one way and not the other?
Do you have the facts or have you been taken down the pied pipers hole?

[A Country Member]

no no....this is Pilger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHash5takWU

Although PC may be in the audience

At least show the full scene Totes.

He always gets his man

[Random Rooster]

Totes Random.

Why do you believe it was one way and not the other?
Do you have the facts or have you been taken down the pied pipers hole?

You're right- i don't have have all the facts...but who does? I go with what makes sense to me. I joined the protest march (the only time i joined a protest) against the war in Iraq because it didn't make sense to me that the US was invading a country that was of no direct threat to them, nor did the US have any proof of weapons of mass destruction.

I'm not a believer of any military action, anywhere and by anyone. It never solves any problem but certainly creates plenty

[ism22]

You're right- i don't have have all the facts...but who does? I go with what makes sense to me. I joined the protest march (the only time i joined a protest) against the war in Iraq because it didn't make sense to me that the US was invading a country that was of no direct threat to them, nor did the US have any proof of weapons of mass destruction.

I'm not a believer of any military action, anywhere and by anyone. It never solves any problem but certainly creates plenty

Pretty much ay.

There's no dichotomy here where you have to be for the Iraq war if you oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

I'm opposed to wars in general. Particularly when it's an attempt to conquer a neighbour that refuses to submit to you on a political level.