Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[ism22]

Don't believe ya Randy. Paddo Boys don't cry.

Caaarn... randy? Boys don't cry? I didn't even have to doctor that one, bro.

For the record, you do spend a lot of time complaining about 'ad hominem' criticisms, mostly concerning my poetic license, unfortunate typographical errors and objective descriptions of your political leaning.

You're pro-war, pro-authoritarianism and anti-west based on an extremely narrow breadth of reading, which centres around a blog owned by a batty ex-mandarin (the awkward right-hand man of two extremely short-term PMs, who they finally got rid of by parachuting into a Qantas CEO role for a fixed term of 3 years). I dunno how this is 'smartest man in the room' material! I really don't get where your grandiose opinions about your own intelligence come from...

[mightyrooster]

Caaarn... randy? Boys don't cry? I didn't even have to doctor that one, bro.

For the record, you do spend a lot of time complaining about 'ad hominem' criticisms, mostly concerning my poetic license, unfortunate typographical errors and objective descriptions of your political leaning.

You're pro-war, pro-authoritarianism and anti-west based on an extremely narrow breadth of reading, which centres around a blog owned by a batty ex-mandarin (the awkward right-hand man of two extremely short-term PMs, who they finally got rid of by parachuting into a Qantas CEO role for a fixed term of 3 years). I dunno how this is 'smartest man in the room' material! I really don't get where your grandiose opinions about your own intelligence come from...

Wow...that's a mouthful....

[ism22]

Wow...that's a mouthful....

Haha yes sorry, I tried my best to summarise his idol and failed to do so succinctly. Oh well, I'll chop down some of the words for my next draft.

[A Country Member]

Swapped out craft beer for champaign it seems

[ism22]

Swapped out craft beer for champaign it seems

Beers, beers, more beers and no dakka TBH. Old mate's an example of what the latter can do to your logical reasoning (and how it increases paranoia).

When it comes to bloody dictatorships (which sit dead bottom of the Universal Human Rights Index), I really don't think there's much to be gained by pretending they're morally superior to developed democracies.

[Paddo Colt 61]

I'm tellin' youse that your dreamin' if you think that the Ukraine is winning this war. The US is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian but the realities are:
* The Ukraine military has outnumbered the Russian contingent yet, with the exception of Kharkov, the Ukrainians have "captured" areas of little strategic importance and is nowhere close to a knockout blow.
On the other hand, the Russian mobilisation of 300000 extra troops suggests that it might be.
* The Ukraine counter offensive has reached its end point with massive loss of life and materiel and the resupply is slowing.
* Richard Marles tells us that the Ukraine is fighting with a largely reservist force which infers that its regular army is now past tense - a large proportion killed, wounded or captured.
* It takes months to train troops for even rudimentary battle skills and officers a lot longer. Ukraine does not have that time.
Months ago Russia and the Ukraine were on the verge of an agreement but the US scuttled that determined to "weaken" Russia using Ukrainians as cannon fodder and our Labor Government has gone along with it both of them propagandising to the absolute max.

[ism22]

I'm tellin' youse that your dreamin' if you think that the Ukraine is winning this war... the Russian mobilisation of 300000 extra troops suggests that Russia is winning, which is my preferred outcome.

I admire your free-flowing, progressive views there. Such a leftie supporting forced conscription and cheering on the aggressors in an invasion of a nation as if it were a sport. Such riveting, left-wing material there...

[Random Rooster]

I'm tellin' youse that your dreamin' if you think that the Ukraine is winning this war. The US is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian but the realities are:
* The Ukraine military has outnumbered the Russian contingent yet, with the exception of Kharkov, the Ukrainians have "captured" areas of little strategic importance and is nowhere close to a knockout blow.
On the other hand, the Russian mobilisation of 300000 extra troops suggests that it might be.
* The Ukraine counter offensive has reached its end point with massive loss of life and materiel and the resupply is slowing.
* Richard Marles tells us that the Ukraine is fighting with a largely reservist force which infers that its regular army is now past tense - a large proportion killed, wounded or captured.
* It takes months to train troops for even rudimentary battle skills and officers a lot longer. Ukraine does not have that time.
Months ago Russia and the Ukraine were on the verge of an agreement but the US scuttled that determined to "weaken" Russia using Ukrainians as cannon fodder and our Labor Government has gone along with it both of them propagandising to the absolute max.

Qanon Lite!

[Paddo Colt 61]

Meaning what exactly? Address the issues as you did in the one anti Iraq war that you were dragged along to.

On a brighter note Cambridge University surveys reported in the Financial Review indicate that while the US propaganda machine has engineered hostility towards China and Russia in the "Liberal Democracies" the reverse is the case in the developing world which maintains a positive view of both. Of the 1.2 billion populations of the Western bloc, 75% now have a negative view of China. However, of the 6.3 billion in the rest of the world 70% are positive toward China and 66% positive toward Russia.

Of course the US aims its propaganda at the wealthiest and strongest militarily but the rest see their future welfare and prosperity firmly linked to the Belt and Road initiative. Needless to say the sheeple here have bought the US version unlike our geographical neighbours.

[King Salvo]

Meaning what exactly? Address the issues as you did in the one anti Iraq war that you were dragged along to.

On a brighter note Cambridge University surveys reported in the Financial Review indicate that while the US propaganda machine has engineered hostility towards China and Russia in the "Liberal Democracies" the reverse is the case in the developing world which maintains a positive view of both. Of the 1.2 billion populations of the Western bloc, 75% now have a negative view of China. However, of the 6.3 billion in the rest of the world 70% are positive toward China and 66% positive toward Russia.

Of course the US aims its propaganda at the wealthiest and strongest militarily but the rest see their future welfare and prosperity firmly linked to the Belt and Road initiative. Needless to say the sheeple here have bought the US version unlike our geographical neighbours.

" Of the 1.2 billion populations of the Western bloc, 75% now have a negative view of China. However, of the 6.3 billion in the rest of the world 70% are positive toward China and 66% positive toward Russia"

Wow that survey must have taken decades - mmm how come i didn't complete that survey or be contacted though

This alleged positive attitude towards China and Russia doesn't have anything to do with China/Russia providing financial incentives and military hardware etc does it? - mmm did the survey take into account their histories as I am sure other countries would be far less positive towards them especially those that lived under Soviet Rule from Moscow

[King Salvo]

I'm tellin' youse that your dreamin' if you think that the Ukraine is winning this war. The US is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian but the realities are:
* The Ukraine military has outnumbered the Russian contingent yet, with the exception of Kharkov, the Ukrainians have "captured" areas of little strategic importance and is nowhere close to a knockout blow.
On the other hand, the Russian mobilisation of 300000 extra troops suggests that it might be.
* The Ukraine counter offensive has reached its end point with massive loss of life and materiel and the resupply is slowing.
* Richard Marles tells us that the Ukraine is fighting with a largely reservist force which infers that its regular army is now past tense - a large proportion killed, wounded or captured.
* It takes months to train troops for even rudimentary battle skills and officers a lot longer. Ukraine does not have that time.
Months ago Russia and the Ukraine were on the verge of an agreement but the US scuttled that determined to "weaken" Russia using Ukrainians as cannon fodder and our Labor Government has gone along with it both of them propagandising to the absolute max.

I am sure little legs Putin has a spare uniform you can wear to front the Western Press so you can tell equally tall stories like Baghdad Bob

Petrozavodsk Paddo perhaps " We're Driving the Criminal US led West Backed Ukrainian forces into the Black Sea " The Ukrainians are either surrendering or changing sides and Joining The Russian Federation to fight against Criminal US led West Imperialism"

[Random Rooster]

Meaning what exactly? Address the issues as you did in the one anti Iraq war that you were dragged along to.

You figure it out Tucker....you're good at figuring things out

[ism22]

" Of the 1.2 billion populations of the Western bloc, 75% now have a negative view of China. However, of the 6.3 billion in the rest of the world 70% are positive toward China and 66% positive toward Russia"

Wow that survey must have taken decades - mmm how come i didn't complete that survey or be contacted though

This alleged positive attitude towards China and Russia doesn't have anything to do with China/Russia providing financial incentives and military hardware etc does it? - mmm did the survey take into account their histories as I am sure other countries would be far less positive towards them especially those that lived under Soviet Rule from Moscow

News flash... if you ban free speech/press and then invade neighbouring countries for the purpose of imposing your system of governance upon them, people might form negative opinions about you.

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For those who want propaganda...

> Mr Medvedev said the task of the fatherland was to "stop the supreme ruler of Hell, whatever name he uses — Satan, Lucifer or Iblis".

...
He said Russia has different weapons, powerful enough to "send all our enemies to fiery Gehenna"
...

> Satan's weapons, Mr Medvedev said, were "intricate lies ... and our weapon is the truth, that is why our cause is right. That is why victory will be ours."

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You can't make this stuff up! Meanwhile in Paddo's brain, factual reporting of this is fiendish propaganda. How dare countries where there is freedom of press make a mockery of such comments, highlighting how horrible Russia's propaganda engine is.

[Paddo Colt 61]

* Russia's incursion was the culmination of broken assurances regarding the West advancing "not one inch" eastward toward the Russian border. Are you denying that happened or that it might have been a serious provocation?
* Do you also deny the abandonment of the Minsk Agreement regarding the security of ethic Russian enclaves in the East enduring the deprivations of Nazi militia? Just two years ago Marise Payne cancelled the passport of a former Australian soldier intending to join the infamous Nazi Azov battalion - those days were a bit different it seems.
Settlement talks between Ukraine and Russia looked like getting somewhere a couple of months back but were scuppered by the US which has a old and inglorious history of diplomatic chichanery and interference.

How about engaging with the facts once in awhile King? Unfortunately, the old shout down and name calling tactic works with people reluctant to face up to their cognitive dissonance but it helps not one iota at getting at the truth of matters. Besides that it's puerile.

[ism22]

* Russia's incursion was the culmination of broken assurances regarding the West advancing "not one inch" eastward toward the Russian border. Are you denying that happened or that it might have been a serious provocation?
* Do you also deny the abandonment of the Minsk Agreement regarding the security of ethic Russian enclaves in the East enduring the deprivations of Nazi militia? Just two years ago Marise Payne cancelled the passport of a former Australian soldier intending to join the infamous Nazi Azov battalion - those days were a bit different it seems.
Settlement talks between Ukraine and Russia looked like getting somewhere a couple of months back but were scuppered by the US which has a old and inglorious history of diplomatic chichanery and interference.

How about engaging with the facts once in awhile King? Unfortunately, the old shout down and name calling tactic works with people reluctant to face up to their cognitive dissonance but it helps not one iota at getting at the truth of matters. Besides that it's puerile.

PADDO... we cannot continue until you understand the basic facts.

- Zelenzkyy is not Hitler. Even if he was, there's no legal basis for Russia to try and conquer Ukraine (see https://johnmenadue.com/russia-what-...st-memorandum/).

- The USA (for all its flaws) doesn't have a lid on free speech, nor does it have a Russia/China style propaganda machine. As the world's largest economy (also beibg a developed, democratic economy) its actions attract a lot of attention. The fact it opposes Russia's invasion of Ukraine doesn't mean it started it!

- Russia's openly spreading centralised propagand by calling Ukraine 'nazis' and 'satan' (while using biblical analogies of it sending Ukraine to hell using nuclear weapons if it doesn't give-up). This is all coming outta Moscow and there is not even a nuanced factual basis for it.

Show some sorta engagement with the basic facts, otherwise it's just a circular discussion where you're constantly telling us that you think the USA's morally bankrupt whereas Russia/China are the envy of the world when it comes to morals and human rights. I respect your right to hold this opinion, but it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand...