Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Random Rooster]

Stan Grant's high dudgeon at a the temerity of someone on Q&A attempting balance is not a lot different to yours

Like Putin shutting down all independent media that dares report anything that is critical of the Kremlin?

"Lobbing missiles at a neighbouring country" is precisely what Russia is trying to avoid. Having NATO bases up to the border gives Russia little cause for joy, they've been through armageddon in the lifetime of many of them. You seem to believe that their concerns don't matter. Because they're Boogie Man Russians? Communists? The US tells you?

How many missiles have been lobbed into Russia since WW2 from NATO countries? What neighbouring country would stupid enough to lob missiles into a country that has 4000 plus nukes? If Russia did have security concerns before the invasion you can times that by 100 now.

My personal belief, and it's just my thoughts, is the answer lies in the annexing of Crimea. Putin thought that by annexing Crimea with a stealth invasion and launching an armed uprising in Donbas, he would shake Ukraine's unity and prompt the southern and eastern provinces of the country to break away from Kyiv and join the Russian Federation as a new territory. That didn't work, so the current invasion is an attempt to use force on a massive scale to get a similar result. It was a strategic blunder and now Putin is looking for a way out without looking like a failure. Invading countries achieves nothing. The USA have proven that time after time

When I learned to think at the University that I was privileged and fortunate enough to attend....."

Yes, yes, we know you went to uni and you were a high school teacher

You yourself illustrate that and with a Murdoch dominated media "informing" the Sheeple we are in big trouble.

Your views of the Ukraine invasion mirrors that of Fox News, so it doesn't make much sense slagging off about them

[mightyrooster]

With respect some things aren't worth responding to but if you want to specify and repeat the point I will respond, It's a debate after all.

Good advice, which I need to start following.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Oh pleez Random. Talk about distortion.

The late George Kennon who headed up the CIA in the 90s and was the architect of Russian "Containment" in the 60s (hardly a Russophile) warned Obama about taking NATO up to the Russian border. Obama, another dud in whom people had faith but who failed to stand up to the US Military Industrial Complex caved in no doubt frightened of being tagged "soft" which is the same grip that the LNP and our own Intel clowns have on the ALP. Security is a big frightener of the Sheeple.

Back then Kennon advised that the NATO move was a "tragic mistake", that Russia would "respond adversely", that there was no reason for it whatsoever and that "nobody was threatening anyone else". Owen Harries a well known right wing academic and the bete noire of my student generation suggested that the reason for the expansion was the strength of the American-Polish vote and the votes of other Americans of Eastern European origin as well as the vested interests of those in the NATO organisation and Kennon publicly agreed with that, said he couldn't have put it better.

The present brutal reality is that NATO played hardball in Kosovo when Russia was weak and won in the short term but is now paying the price. If you wanna get an update on that, take a minute to go to johnmenadue.com and see ex ADF officer Cameron Leckie's piece "The Ukraine - a Decisive transfer of the balance of Power from West to East".

If you can't lift the quality of comment with references to authority other than your own and the MSM's, please don't bother responding and the Uni/teacher smear (you know what you're doing) is getting tired.

[Random Rooster]

If you can't lift the quality of comment with references to authority other than your own and the MSM's, please don't bother responding

I think you called it "critical thinking". If you don't like what i have to say then i suggest you dont bother responding to me rather than telling me what i should or shouldn't do.

Uni/teacher smear (you know what you're doing) is getting tired.

First time i mentioned it.....but yes you have mentioned it numerous times and yes you know what your doing and yes it's getting tired. The world is full of educated idiots. Your dated education level means about as much to me as mine does to you.

[Paddo Colt 61]

On and on with the ad hominem. I've forgotten most of what I "learned" in my "dated education" but the process of learning is never forgotten.

In a recent post you were cavalier about Russian security concerns practically calling them groundless fantasies yet I'll bet that like your political party and News Ltd you're far less than happy, concerned and bellicose maybe, about China's "military base" in the Solomons? But those evil Russians - meh!

It's not a military base by the way, it's harbour development courtesy of China's 'Belt and Road" initiative that you might care to read more about. Being the economic powerhouse that it is, China hopes to lead world prosperity by developing to the East and West - to Central Asia, Europe and the Pacific. China, apart from securing its own borders, has never threatened anyone apart from the LNP, Newscorp and the USA's hegemony.

[Random Rooster]

On and on with the ad hominem. I've forgotten most of what I "learned" in my "dated education" but the process of learning is never forgotten.

In a recent post you were cavalier about Russian security concerns practically calling them groundless fantasies yet I'll bet that like your political party and News Ltd you're far less than happy, concerned and bellicose maybe, about China's "military base" in the Solomons? But those evil Russians - meh!

It's not a military base by the way, it's harbour development courtesy of China's 'Belt and Road" initiative that you might care to read more about. Being the economic powerhouse that it is, China hopes to lead world prosperity by developing to the East and West - to Central Asia, Europe and the Pacific. China, apart from securing its own borders, has never threatened anyone apart from the LNP, Newscorp and the USA's hegemony.

China? Please see previous posts about you changing the subject when your argument goes nowhere

Newscorp? I don't need to watch Fox News on the Ukraine conflict....i can just read your pro-Russia posts. No point in slagging off about Newscorp when you're mirroring the views of Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity

I was in the protest march against the American invasion of Iraq- the needless slaughter of civilians and young soldiers. It achieved nothing and made for ongoing unrest in the whole region- just like all of America's invasions of countries who posed no direct threat to them. The same goes for Russia now. For the loss of civilian lives, the flattening of entire cities, the millions of refugees, the humanitarian catastrophe and the loss of young soldiers from both countries- it will only achieve negative security and economic outcomes for Russia

[Paddo Colt 61]

And who is really to blame for the tragedy you describe?

With China and the Solomons I was drawing an analogy - cavalier about their security but frothing about ours. Jezz I need to explain everything?" Takes me back to teaching - have I mentioned that before?

Please Random, read that piece that I mentioned at #123, it covers most of your arguments at #121. We could discuss the contrast. Seriously. We're in bit of a rut here.

Ya gotta do it bro! To extend the Country Member's metaphor "I'm holdin' you up here man" - but I do admire your passion.

[Rooster1908]

Good advice, which I need to start following.

Pretty sure I pointed this out a while ago .But I'm actually enjoying the way you and others are trying to convince the dribbler

[mightyrooster]

Pretty sure I pointed this out a while ago .But I'm actually enjoying the way you and others are trying to convince the dribbler

That you did, but unfortunately I can be a bit stubborn. I'm just having a break for the time being then I'll see how I feel.

[ism22]

And who is really to blame for the tragedy you describe?

With China and the Solomons I was drawing an analogy - cavalier about their security but frothing about ours. Jezz I need to explain everything?" Takes me back to teaching - have I mentioned that before?

Please Random, read that piece that I mentioned at #123, it covers most of your arguments at #121. We could discuss the contrast. Seriously. We're in bit of a rut here.

Ya gotta do it bro! To extend the Country Member's metaphor "I'm holdin' you up here man" - but I do admire your passion.

Grade: 0/10 - please re-submit.

- Summarised some irrelevant opinions about the Solomon Islands' relationship with China rather than critically analysing Russia's reason for using military force to bomb Ukranian cities to the ground.

- Provided no valid sources for these opinions.

- Lacked form and structure. It is unclear who 'Country Member' is, what the quote refers to or how it relates to Russia invading Ukraine. I suggest you read the question more closely.

[Paddo Colt 61]

See Country Member comment at #111. Get with it Ism. Those legal docs must be nightmare for you.

[ism22]

See Country Member comment at #111. Get with it Ism. Those legal docs must be nightmare for you.

Oh right, you quoted your own alt account? Nice work mate.

[A Country Member]

Oh right, you quoted your own alt account? Nice work mate.

How many alts do you have Ism?

[ism22]

How many alts do you have Ism?

Clearly thousands... how else would I be able to thoroughly defeat such a solid army of analytical beings in an argument?

[Paddo Colt 61]

Doesn't matter how many you have mon ami, you keep on repeating that emotional stuff. I don't blame you, class, years of of conditioning - Russia bad, China bad, Venezuela, Cuba bad. The Western Media doesn't help. I hate the thought of the chaos and grief of war but worse is the knowledge that war sells big time and how do you maximise that? By appealing to emotions. Creating cheer squads that rev up hatred of the other side.

The ABC is a worry. I think that we've a new era there unless a new government rectifies things. The impartial analysis of most things is pretty much gone and News and current affairs seems to take the same foreign feeds as the commercials. Cuts to budget are at the root of it and job loss has really put the frighteners on the organisation. Presumably to curry favour and broaden the audience there's been a sizeable recruitment from the private sector all of whom have been disappointing. That execrable bloviator Stan Grant whose interview schstic is to give a mini lecture and then ask the glassy eyed interviewee if they agree. Patricia Karvelis is another ex News Corp lightweight, on RN Breakfast fcs. Girlish and banal she's the epitome of a group thinker completely out of her depth. That's what you get when you hire Year 10 leaver journos "trained on the job" at News. I just hope that they haven't hired editors.

I had an HSC History student (Have I mentioned I was a teacher?) years ago. A blokey kid, loudmouthed in class and unreasonably confident. Horrified that he had received 6/20 for an essay, he discounted my advice regarding his poor writing and even poorer grasp of the topic, saying "I'm gonna be a journalist Mum's got me a job at the Tele". And so he did, got by lines about big car crashes, became a Channel 9 nightly news contributor, flew the world on assignment. Still couldn't cut it - that's the kinda guy whose reporting you'd believe?