Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[A Country Member]

Yes yes!!! Im 100% in total agreeance with you-please check some of my earlier posts. All those wars you mention were based on bullshit and achieved nothing besides needless death all round.Ultimately the USA lost those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. George W Bush is a war criminal

And that is it. War just doesn’t work anymore. Let’s just hope that the US understands this after those last two efforts.

What worries me is that the US aren’t at war with themselves when they are at war with someone else. They need a common foe to quell the growing discontent within their own population.

[mightyrooster]

Yes yes!!! Im 100% in total agreeance with you-please check some of my earlier posts. All those wars you mention were based on bullshit and achieved nothing besides needless death all round.Ultimately the USA lost those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. George W Bush is a war criminal

Exactly! Just because the US has done this, as you say based on bs, and failed does not justify Putin doing the same. I've been saying this all along.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Sure but it's very naive isn'it. We're talking fear about security from NATO's atomic weapons.

The US cares not an ounce about collateral damage. I could go on about their current conduct in the Yemen to illustrate and maybe I will.

[mightyrooster]

Sure but it's very naive isn'it. We're talking fear about security from NATO's atomic weapons.

The US cares not an ounce about collateral damage. I could go on about their current conduct in the Yemen to illustrate and maybe I will.

And the Russians do care about collateral damage?

[Rooster1908]

Learn to use the space bar bra

My wife wears a bra bro

[A Country Member]

My wife wears a bra bro

Ahh, those repressive symbols of patriarchal subservience.

I thought you were opposed to tyrannical regimes Coona?

[Random Rooster]

And that is it. War just doesn’t work anymore. Let’s just hope that the US understands this after those last two efforts.

What worries me is that the US aren’t at war with themselves when they are at war with someone else. They need a common foe to quell the growing discontent within their own population.

I don't think war ever worked.

What worries me is that Putin is a 69 year old who is close to the richest man in the world and acquiring more wealth brings him no satisfaction......but he wants his legacy to be that of a man with the power that re-united the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Maybe he thought he could capture all of Ukraine and establish a puppet government with the Ukrainians people throwing flowers in support as the tanks rolled??

Yeah like those puppet governments in Iraq and Afghanistan that the US tried telling us were democratically elected.....didn't work out too good did it. What a waste of life. Out of all the US senators who approved the Iraq invasion only 1 had a son in the military. Sacrificing your young sons or daughters was a sacrifice they were willing to take. War is a appalling scam

[ism22]

Sure but it's very naive isn'it. We're talking fear about security from NATO's atomic weapons.

The US cares not an ounce about collateral damage. I could go on about their current conduct in the Yemen to illustrate and maybe I will.

The difference between Russia in Ukraine and the USA in Afghanistan/Iraq is that Russia's purpose for the war is conquest. Russia wish to take Ukraine (a stable country) by force... not rid it of a barbaric terrorist organisation.

I think it's fair to say that Bin Laden is dead and there was stability in Afghanistan until the US left voluntarily. In contrast, Russia has caused absolute chaos in Ukraine and it's behaving more like Al Qaeda in that it's looking to take-over countries based on ridiculous conspiracy/quasi-religious theories.

Since the US isn't party to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, I think people who blame the US for it are buying into some pretty hectic Russian trolling/propaganda. Russia's been standing over Ukraine for years and attempting to do a soft take-over. That failed (i.e. they tried seeding Ukranian politics with successive puppet leaders, a guy made a comedy show that mocked how ridiculous this was and then he got elected). So... Russia surrounded them with troops, said 'bring back the puppet leaders or we'll attack'... failed to take it in one fell swoop... and now they've just started bombing beautiful cities to the ground.

The only thing the US has done thus far is intercept all of Russia's internal communications about the matter, announce Russia's intention to invade a month earlier than Russia wanted (based on hacked/leaked communications - the media knew it all before it happened despite years of threats) and by doing so, enable Ukraine to be fully prepared for the timing (which was supposed to be a secret that involved bribing a small number of troops defending Ukraine then marching into town with them hand in hand saying 'THERE IS NO WAR... THE PEOPLE WANT THEIR MOTHER BACK... MOTHER RUSSIA!!!' If this is evil then blow me!!!

[Rooster1908]

Ahh, those repressive symbols of patriarchal subservience.

I thought you were opposed to tyrannical regimes Coona?

yep

[zac]

i wouldn't say no war is justified - fighting hitler was necessary - but this is one of the dumber ones. the number one task is to stop it by giving russia some sort of exit. not sure prosecuting war crimes is a good idea at this stage. if it meant stopping the war and the russian army going home then let's call it quits.

[Paddo Colt 61]

"Richest man in the world", mass executions, a madman invading his neighbours - all without a scintilla of evidence. Weeks ago Russia announced that ALL evacuees exit to Russia, Why? Militia like the Azovs were shooting people crossing the Russian border - reasonably assuming that they were Russian (the Ukraine population is 50% Russian). In order to make it less certain that only Russians were crossing, the stipulation that ALL had to evacuate via Russia was made. Given that sort of fanatical and murderous anti Russian tendency, might not the "massacred" civilians be Russians and the perpetrators the militias? How would we know? Isn't the situation hazy enough to encourage doubt especially given the US's role in previous conflicts. Julian Assange is persecuted for blowing the whistle on that Chopper massacre that we all saw.

The Russians tried all sorts of diplomacy to negotiate a roll back of Western encroachment since the 90s. In 2019 the US refused to reinstate the ban on medium range nuclear weapons - that's REINSTATE, they withdrew from it. Cause for concern? Look at the carry on here about a Chinese harbour in the Solomons. Not seeing the US role in all this is willful blindness.

[Random Rooster]

"Richest man in the world", mass executions, a madman invading his neighbours - all without a scintilla of evidence. Weeks ago Russia announced that ALL evacuees exit to Russia, Why? Militia like the Azovs were shooting people crossing the Russian border - reasonably assuming that they were Russian (the Ukraine population is 50% Russian). In order to make it less certain that only Russians were crossing, the stipulation that ALL had to evacuate via Russia was made. Given that sort of fanatical and murderous anti Russian tendency, might not the "massacred" civilians be Russians and the perpetrators the militias? How would we know? Isn't the situation hazy enough to encourage doubt especially given the US's role in previous conflicts. Julian Assange is persecuted for blowing the whistle on that Chopper massacre that we all saw.

The Russians tried all sorts of diplomacy to negotiate a roll back of Western encroachment since the 90s. In 2019 the US refused to reinstate the ban on medium range nuclear weapons - that's REINSTATE, they withdrew from it. Cause for concern? Look at the carry on here about a Chinese harbour in the Solomons. Not seeing the US role in all this is willful blindness.

Well if this is your belief then there's nothing anyone can say to change your views.
We can only see what unfolds in the coming months

[Rooster1908]

He could be on to something about the Chinese harbor . Its probably just for P & O ships and the like

[Paddo Colt 61]

The Chinese government has 4 foreign bases (one off the coast of Africa has probably closed by now) and none are extensive military installations in the way that US bases are. By contrast, the US has 800 bases worldwide some of them huge like Diego Garcia which focuses on China. It's the same story as the aggressive attitude to Russia - ring them with missiles and then point the blame at any reaction they might take. Only an ignorant fool could keep believing that the US is the White Knight protecting the world from "evil". Unforch the Sheeple are characterised by ignorant fools.

Like Russia, China is the object of misinformation and propaganda. Both are seen as competitors who need to be put back in their place - subservient to Uncle Sam.

[ism22]

The Russians tried all sorts of diplomacy to negotiate a roll back of Western encroachment since the 90s. In 2019 the US refused to reinstate the ban on medium range nuclear weapons - that's REINSTATE, they withdrew from it. Cause for concern? Look at the carry on here about a Chinese harbour in the Solomons. Not seeing the US role in all this is willful blindness.

As noted, there was no diplomacy. Russia simply said 'install a puppet government that's pro-Russia or we'll destroy you until you give in!!!' They're now blowing everything up because Ukraine has refused to give in.

It's a farce that you suggest there was an opportunity for people to discuss this in a civil manner (or that there's issues that needed sorting out from Ukraine's end).

---

PS - didn't you know the 'leaked' version of Manning's 'collateral damage' video was heavily edited to exclude the context (soldiers were copping heavy fire from terrorists and some journos walked right into the middle of them without wearing their media uniforms... unfortunate but it's kinda what you get when you dress up as a terrorist in an attempt to get better footage of action)? Just assumed you'd know, being the 'analytical' one and all.

Meanwhile, Russia's 'collateral damage' is in the thousands (tens of thousands?) and they've only been there for a month. I note you don't give a cr@p about any of that.