Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=King Salvo; You have to scratch your head and wonder how anyone could support such an ideology as Communism as their leaders were all the same-despots - 100's of millions forced into hard labour or executed under their regimes - i.e Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Ho Chi Minh/ Kim II-Sung/Castro

Do you have any authority for all of that? Independent evidence please, not just "Aw...everybody knows!!". I daresay that they do know of a version at best.

It is true that Che, after the consolidation of power in Cuba, was appointed head of security and later executed a couple of hundred who had been damned as torturers and murderers under the notorious Batista regime which had, in concert with the US, killed thousands There was huge US inspired outcry but Che's efforts pale in comparison to Pinochet's record following the US engineered coup in Chile. The Allende government was democratically elected.

Look don't waste time berating me, go read Malcolm Fraser's book which warns you/us about embracing the USA. His warning has commonality with the Ayatollah. Both must be communists?

[King Salvo]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n967057][QUOTE=King Salvo; You have to scratch your head and wonder how anyone could support such an ideology as Communism as their leaders were all the same-despots - 100's of millions forced into hard labour or executed under their regimes - i.e Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Ho Chi Minh/ Kim II-Sung/Castro

Do you have any authority for all of that? Independent evidence please, not just "Aw...everybody knows!!". I daresay that they do know of a version at best.

It is true that Che, after the consolidation of power in Cuba, was appointed head of security and later executed a couple of hundred who had been damned as torturers and murderers under the notorious Batista regime which had, in concert with the US, killed thousands There was huge US inspired outcry but Che's efforts pale in comparison to Pinochet's record following the US engineered coup in Chile. The Allende government was democratically elected.

Look don't waste time berating me, go read Malcolm Fraser's book which warns you/us about embracing the USA. His warning has commonality with the Ayatollah. Both must be communists?



[/QUOTE]

I suppose it was a gimmick that Khrushchev denounced Stalin / the USSR commo party denounced Stalin as a dictator (the cult of personality) / they removed Stalin from Lenin's mausoleum and buried him and renamed Stalingrad -Volgograd etc etc

Beria (Head of the NKVD) should not have been the only one tried and then taken out and shot - they were all complicit in supporting Stalin's forced famine (collective farms) purges/arrests /show trials /deportations to gulags and executions.

Even one of your hero's in Lenin himself said not to give Stalin the top job and any power as well a despot knows if someone else is also a despot.

[ism22]

Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Ho Chi Minh/ Kim II-Sung/Castro never did anything bad. Please find me detailed, first-hand hand government documents from their regimes (translated to English) that provide confessions that they killed/tortured/enslaved people or it's all bollocks. The USA has lied to you, you sheep!!! Nothing in the history books is true!!! You are all so stupid to blindly accept the lies you have been told!!!

...

Che Guevara is my hero... we need more leaders like him in Australian politics...

---

Look don't waste time correcting me. Unless John Menadue, Gough Whitlam, Malcolm Fraser, some white monkey being paid by China/Russia/Saudi Arabia or a violent dictator said it then it's just western propaganda! You know the drill surely...

Thanks for the clarification Paeddo, greatly appreciated.

[Paddo Colt 61]

"Paeddo" hits a new low point? Ad hominem rules OK!!! So does Cancel Culture

How does Stalin fit in all this? Russia is not Communist, the Comms are the opposition party. Nor is it an autocracy, there are elections. Surely you won't argue that those elections are illegitimate? Our MSM had Menzies in power for 23 years and when, eventually, the ALP got in and did things like sewering the Western Suburbs and equivalents in all Capital cities, the Right engineered a coup. Is that what youse mean by illegitimate?

I would, however, have loved to have been an interrogator in Cuba after the revolution. Watching the fear on the faces of those who had trained in Waterboarding and hurling people from helicopters at the School Of The Americas. I would have been delighted to have given them a taste of that. Che had the firing squad running hot and so, was merciful to those lowest of low life.

Calm down fellas, just ropin' a dope (or dopes) with the fantasy.

[Eggspert]

I'm no expert on this topic but a work colleague who's half Russian/Ukrainian explained to me that the Americans are basically using Ukrainian soliders to the last man if they have to in a proxy war with Russia.

He explained they have been undermining the region since the overthrow of a Ukrainian pro Russian president.

Can only imagine the problems people who are half half or in mixed marriages are going through in this conflict. WW3 is a scary possibility.

[ism22]

"Paeddo" hits a new low point? Ad hominem rules OK!!! So does Cancel Culture

...

Stalin's not a commie. In modern Russia, commies are the opposition party!!!

...

Calm down fellas, just being a dope (or dopes, in reference to the fact I have a second account).

Thank you kind sir for calling all who accept the mainstream version of all this dopes and sheep. I don't personally have experience smoking dope or mounting sheep, but I'll take your word for it.

PS - I intentionally avoid the word 'communism' because no bloody dictatorship has ever been communist, socialist, democratic or a place run by 'the people'.

Similarly to how all bloody dictators deny and do their best to prevent all discussion of things like genocide and oppression... they also don't name their countries 'The Fascist Dictatorship of War, Poverty and Oppression'. Rather, they staple on a heap of misused terms to try and fool the west.

Did you know that China's a democracy that has elections?!? Yeah... 100% of people voted for the CCP.

[King Salvo]

"Paeddo" hits a new low point? Ad hominem rules OK!!! So does Cancel Culture

How does Stalin fit in all this? Russia is not Communist, the Comms are the opposition party. Nor is it an autocracy, there are elections. Surely you won't argue that those elections are illegitimate? Our MSM had Menzies in power for 23 years and when, eventually, the ALP got in and did things like sewering the Western Suburbs and equivalents in all Capital cities, the Right engineered a coup. Is that what youse mean by illegitimate?

I would, however, have loved to have been an interrogator in Cuba after the revolution. Watching the fear on the faces of those who had trained in Waterboarding and hurling people from helicopters at the School Of The Americas. I would have been delighted to have given them a taste of that. Che had the firing squad running hot and so, was merciful to those lowest of low life.

Calm down fellas, just ropin' a dope (or dopes) with the fantasy.

Ah yes elections in the Russian Federation -mmm opposition party leaders have a habbit of strangely disappearing / meeting an untimely demise and or are jailed on trumped up charges not withstanding the vote rigging that goes on.

Just a coincidence or bad luck you will no doubt say

Conveniently the Russian Constitution was changed to increase the President terms from 4 to 6 years when Putin was "re-elected" in 2012 and changed again in 2020 to enable Putin to serve an additional 2 x 6 year consecutive terms as President from 2024 as under the 2020 changes his previous consecutive terms served don't count- re-set to 0 - so he could be there till 2036 - aged 84

Oh he also signed a bill giving former presidents and their families full immunity for anything they’ve done during their lifetimes.

When I say "re-elected" - he could only serve 2 consecutive 4 year terms ( May 2000 to may 2008) under their 1993 constitution so he had Medvedev step in for 4 years ( May 2008 to May 2012) as the token President until he could be "re-elected" again in 2012

Next you will be telling us they have democratic Elections in China and even had them when Mao was the Despot/Dictator I mean Chairman.

[mightyrooster]

Thank you kind sir for calling all who accept the mainstream version of all this dopes and sheep. I don't personally have experience smoking dope or mounting sheep, but I'll take your word for it.

PS - I intentionally avoid the word 'communism' because no bloody dictatorship has ever been communist, socialist, democratic or a place run by 'the people'.

Similarly to how all bloody dictators deny and do their best to prevent all discussion of things like genocide and oppression... they also don't name their countries 'The Fascist Dictatorship of War, Poverty and Oppression'. Rather, they staple on a heap of misused terms to try and fool the west.

Did you know that China's a democracy that has elections?!? Yeah... 100% of people voted for the CCP.

Lol, some funny stuff. That gave me a laugh.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster; Lol, some funny stuff. That gave me a laugh.

Clearly, you are easily amused Ms. Rooster. Usually rants like those two serve up are a cause for some concern rather than delight. Their Good v Evil binary reminds me of Catholic school in the 60s in the case of Salvo and, of course, with a bourgeois background ( private school, Rugby nd craft beers,beers, beers) Conservatism is often a given.

Neither ever address an issue. What I see every time is just wild emotion accompanied by "own facts", name calling and years of thought free MSM conditioning.

Izzy claims to have never done weed, maybe that's his problem - the closed mind. Often one needs some kind of mind expander to clear the mist of propaganda that surrounds us all. The first thing that needs revision is his sense that "the people" are wise and judicious when a quick look at the most popular TV shows suggests otherwise. What? After an evening of reality TV - Love Boat, Farmer and MAFS they settle into rumination on geopolitics? The Libs always ran that amusing line about the 'wisdom' of the electorate after yet another election determined by our near monopoly MSM. They were especially wise after the coup in 75.

I revive the words of the American thinker and journalist H L Menkin, "The more the American people clamour for a President just like them, the sooner they'll have a moron in charge.

[ism22]

If you'd sat around punching bongs instead of being an elite athlete, doing marathons in your 40's, re-training as a lawyer after a messy divorce, living in Asia for a decade and working in M&A with a specialisation in Asian investors then you'd have a greater appreciation of my opinions.

See what you're saying there mate but equally... maybe if you'd challenged yourself a bit harder, done a professional degree, lived/worked in Asia and learned a few different languages you'd have a better understanding of these matters.

Smoking a few bongs and then rambling about a heap of conspiracy theories while in a drug-induced state of euphoria where you're hyper-priming everything 'opens' your mind to a thing called bullshyte. It's much harder and more beneficial to actually do the work required to broaden your actual understanding of stuff rather than hyper-priming a heap of irrelevant concepts.

[mightyrooster]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n967173][QUOTE=mightyrooster; Lol, some funny stuff. That gave me a laugh.

Clearly, you are easily amused Ms. Rooster. Usually rants like those two serve up are a cause for some concern rather than delight. Their Good v Evil binary reminds me of Catholic school in the 60s in the case of Salvo and, of course, with a bourgeois background ( private school, Rugby nd craft beers,beers, beers) Conservatism is often a given.

Neither ever address an issue. What I see every time is just wild emotion accompanied by "own facts", name calling and years of thought free MSM conditioning.

Izzy claims to have never done weed, maybe that's his problem - the closed mind. Often one needs some kind of mind expander to clear the mist of propaganda that surrounds us all. The first thing that needs revision is his sense that "the people" are wise and judicious when a quick look at the most popular TV shows suggests otherwise. What? After an evening of reality TV - Love Boat, Farmer and MAFS they settle into rumination on geopolitics? The Libs always ran that amusing line about the 'wisdom' of the electorate after yet another election determined by our near monopoly MSM. They were especially wise after the coup in 75.

I revive the words of the American thinker and journalist H L Menkin, "The more the American people clamour for a President just like them, the sooner they'll have a moron in charge.

[/QUOTE]

Come on Paddo. You have to admit you do the good guy / bad guy thing too, only the other way around. In your eyes the US is always the big bad guy, while you'd have us all believe Putin and China are white angels, always being victimised, only ever doing bad things when provoked. Whereas I look at the big picture and it's clear to me both sides are as bad as one another.

[Paddo Colt 61]

In my estimation the US is the bad guy but it is also the estimation of most of the world apart from the Anglosphere. Also I've never said that Russia and China were "white angels" but I have said both, and especially Russia, have case.

During this week Sergei Lavrov the Russian foreign minister accused the US of lying about there having been no peace talk proposals by Russia. Note that it was proposals to the US not to the Ukraine. If any further proof was needed, that peace talk rejection alone tells us that the US is running the whole show and that Ukraine is a puppet state. The US is willing to fight to the last plucky little Ukrainian it seems.

The US has moved the Command Centre to East Germany where it can get on with its high tech offensive without the Ukrainians stuffing things up. It is the US that has been providing and operating the very sophisticated weaponry that has sunk a Russian flagship and targeted Russian senior command. Remember it was US insistence on militarising territory right up to the Russian border that caused the conflict in the first place. Now it won't allow the Ukraine to entertain peace discussions which is a worry because the Pentagon has said that the Ukraine can't win.

As they've said previously, the war aim is to weaken Russia to the fullest extent possible. Meanwhile with every escalation of High Tech weaponry, the risk of a nuclear exchange by a frustrated Putin, grows more and more likely.

Predictably, I've not seen any mention of this in our MSM.

[Random Rooster]

Izzy claims to have never done weed, maybe that's his problem - the closed mind. Often one needs some kind of mind expander to clear the mist of propaganda that surrounds us all. The first thing that needs revision is his sense that "the people" are wise and judicious when a quick look at the most popular TV shows suggests otherwise. What? After an evening of reality TV - Love Boat, Farmer and MAFS they settle into rumination on geopolitics?

So you're saying smoke some weed, stop watching TV and it will become obvious to you that it's actually the USA that is the cause of all of the worlds problems?? Really?

[Random Rooster]

As they've said previously, the war aim is to weaken Russia to the fullest extent possible. Meanwhile with every escalation of High Tech weaponry, the risk of a nuclear exchange by a frustrated Putin, grows more and more likely.

Predictably, I've not seen any mention of this in our MSM.

If Russia honoured the Budapest Memorandum then there would be no war. Its that simple

[King Salvo]

As Comrade Paddo would be unlikely to have a TV or watch it that often if he did (Full of decadent capitalist West programs) he would do some light reading one assumes - i.e Das Captial/ The Communist Manifesto/ Lenin's State and Revolution/Mao's Quotations/ Kim Jong Il -the "Peoples" leader/Ho Chi Minh's Blue print for revolution/Castro-My Life.