Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[ism22]

Well if you love the Chinese system soooooooooo much why are you living here still though in this in your mind "decadent west capitalist country".
You are a contradiction to say the least with your enduring love of China/Russia etc vs your hatred of the West but you still choose to live in the West though - why ?

'Cause Russia was not Communist last time I looked and besides, I'm not Russian.

'Cause I'm not Chinese either.

[Grumble - why is a guy calling everybody stupid such a moron that he can't push the 'quote' button and close the brackets when he cuts/pastes? Not hard, mate!]

I'm not Japanese... I'm not Vietnamese either. And yet, I've lived in both countries. Heck I was born an Italian citizen (still am) and have family visas to live in both Japan and Vietnam for as long as I like. People are allowed to move around, mate! Quit making bullshyte excuses for you having zero desire to live in a dictatorship.

Ever heard of going outside rather than staying inside, hitting the dakka and reading johnmenadue.con (while ironically calling everybody else stupid)? I hear you can learn stuff that way!

FWIW as this is about Russia...

- My half brother is half Russian and I was partly raised by his mother (so I actually speak a little Russian and have a 'connection'). None of us wanna live in Russia.

- I work as an M&A lawyer. Straight outta uni a friend who's well connected offered me a $$$ job in Russia that involved setting up shell companies on the UK/Australia (common law jurisdictions) so that oligarchs could hide their money. BIG money on offer mate... I turned it down as he advised that 'accidents happen in Russia, you don't just go out at night or walk the streets, you have to be vigilant the whole time, including about what you say to people'. Despite the money on offer, he's now moved on from that role.

So yeah... opportunities exist if you're that way inclined. There's big money on offer for white monkeys who wanna defect to Russia/China - isn't hard.

Why don't I defect then? Oh right because I enjoy the freedom of living in a democracy and am not what did you call them... a 'sheeple', like 1/2 your johnmenadue.con defectors who will say anything for the right price (usually not that much).

[Random Rooster]

Sieg Heil Von Salvo.

'Cause Russia was not Communist last time I looked and besides, I'm not Russian.

'Cause I'm not Chinese either.

On the other hand why aren't you over in the USA? To be fair you just about are, living here. We've even got an American with near monopoly ownership of our MSM. The Tea Party, The Proud Boyz and the Oath Keepers would fight over you - not often that a passionate foreign Nazi patriot comes their way.

When Russia invaded Ukraine the Proud Boys telegram channels began posting about traveling to Ukraine to fight alongside Russian soldiers......even the Nazi's know that the Nazis Putin claims to be ridding the Ukraine of really don't exist.

Paddo the far right conservative/religious/white supremacists/nazi nutcases are right behind Putin. As i've said in numerous posts your views on the Ukraine /Russia conflict mirrors that of Fox News Tucker Carlson.

So when you go on about the Nazis supporting anyone against Russia.....well......

[Random Rooster]

Heck I was born an Italian citizen (still am) and have family visas to live in both Japan and Vietnam for as long as I like. People are allowed to move around, mate! Quit making bullshyte excuses for you having zero desire to live in a dictatorship.

Hang on, in light of the recent Italian election you really are a Nazi...or a fascist at best (or worst)

I got my Italian citizenship to make it easier to travel around Europe- i swear that was the only reason!

Auf Wiedersehen

[ism22]

Hang on, in light of the recent Italian election you really are a Nazi...or a fascist at best (or worst)

I got my Italian citizenship to make it easier to travel around Europe- i swear that was the only reason!

Auf Wiedersehen

LOLz I didn't vote, but it was kinda cool receiving all the docs

[Paddo Colt 61]

Hey Izzie, Russia is CAPITALIST . Jeez we're sick of hearing about your relatives with a finger on many pulses, some are even eye witnesses to momentous events which never happened.

The law career is also confusing. One minute it's a modest achievement at best, next it's a brilliant career. Changes from the footy forum to this one.

[ism22]

Hey Izzie... not that you ever said so but Russia is CAPITALIST, not COMMUNIST. Why do people always get confused about what system of government expansionary dictatorships use? Russia... USA... same system of government, my dude.

Also, I'm sick of hearing about how you speak multiple languages and have friends/colleagues/relatives with skin in the game. Don't get me started on the fact you have a career that involves navigating relevant geopolitics as this completely destroys my straw-man argument that you're actually not actually human... you're really a sheep that gets everything they know from Fox... specifically ignoring Tucker Carlson, mind you.

1. Russia is an expansionary dictatorship that is currently trying to take-over a neighbour using military force. I've consistently stayed away from trying to define its system of government as dictatorships rarely describe themselves using accurate lingo.

2. Chin-up... you've called me a sheep and implied that I'm a fool on multiple occasions. I get that citing my chosen vocation may be viewed as boastful/arrogant but I don't think that's what's going on here. I've simply proven that you're running a straw man argument that we're all stupid, watch Fox news and don't put our minds to other opinions (such as Menadue.con). I'm confirming I've put my mind to the said materials and disagree with them based on my personal and professional experience.

3. As noted, there's ample opportunities for you to live in Russia or China if you so desire. Hell there's westerners who have defected to North Korea because they've gotten caught-up in your line of thinking that 'the west' is broken beyond repair and defecting to a dictatorship will be paradise. If you're interested, I know somebody who can hook you up with the paperwork (please do - then I won't have to put up with your gratuitous anti developed world rants).

[Paddo Colt 61]

Mmmm...that's not me you've quoted. Is it a parody of somefin'. It's the second time.

* Lawyerin' relies on precision - Russia is not a Dictatorship. There are many nations that call themselves "democracies". Even in the US conservatives stipulate that theirs is a Republic. Democracy is a relative term. Do we have a democracy here even when an unelected official can dismiss an elected government? Russia has elections and universal suffrage ergo it is a democracy. It is also NOT communist. What is your "accurate lingo"?

* Is the US expansionist in your opinion? It certainly is aggressive and no stranger to military force. Extreme military force if it comes to that. It puts Russia in the shade on that score. In fact Russia has been offensive only with regard to its own security apart from beating up the fascist Wehrmacht single handedly.

* I'm sayin' most people are stupid politically because they're uninterested. Thucydides noticed it way back, it's not an original observation.

* "Go and live in Russia why dontcha" is an old ad hominem trope typically employed by those who are bog ignorant but passionately opposed to ideas which conflict with their often groundless prejudices. It's an expression of Cognitive Dissonance and it's big in Oz where betting with mates is much preferred option to thinking.

* You don't "have to put up with" anything - go elsewhere. That won't be Menadue of course because your "personal and professional experience" (not to mention those of your relatives, eye witnesses and sundry fishermen) is at odds with the diplomats, academics and independent journalists who contribute to it.

How on Earth did you ever become a lawyer? Then again, my daughter lectures in Law at SU and she tells me that most are 6/10. I, too, have a Law degree and was myself a 6/10 which is why I never play the card.

[King Salvo]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n967991][QUOTE=King Salvo; Well if you love the Chinese system soooooooooo much why are you living here still though in this in your mind "decadent west capitalist country".
You are a contradiction to say the least with your enduring love of China/Russia etc vs your hatred of the West but you still choose to live in the West though - why ?

.................................................. .................................................. ...

Sieg Heil Von Salvo.

'Cause Russia was not Communist last time I looked and besides, I'm not Russian.

'Cause I'm not Chinese either.

On the other hand why aren't you over in the USA? To be fair you just about are, living here. We've even got an American with near monopoly ownership of our MSM. The Tea Party, The Proud Boyz and the Oath Keepers would fight over you - not often that a passionate foreign Nazi patriot comes their way. Such is your passion that one day I hope to thank you for your service but that day might never come 'cause you're the kinda guy that says, "Well if there's a nuclear war it'll be Putin's fault".

You're wasted here really when you could be over there haranguing any malcontents, assuring them that more than 1 million dead from Covid has far more merit than the Chinese few thousand (those fools put their citizens' safety before money, can you believe that?) or that trailer park living is a hoot as is not being able to afford health care. And how good is life on the US minimum wage or the excitement to be felt being a waiter earning tips only not to mention the frisson of being drafted for military service in one of the endless wars for freedom. Tip: Don't get sick over there pal.

If you wanted to go negative you could sneer at the Chows who have free medical care, free university education, affordable housing and a minimum wage fast becoming comparable with that earned by the deliriously happy American working class - those fcukin' Chinese losers, 96% of them approve of their rulers' performance. Meatheads!

[/QUOTE]

Of course all talk no action - you would never live in those countries as you know deep down West is best

96% approval that's pure fiction to say the least and straight from the China commo party propaganda machine no doubt - mmm they would be looking for the 4% that didn't approve though.

In commo countries those folk who disapprove of such leaders and parties disappear and or spend an awful long time in one of the many gulags or re-education concentration camps.

Your Old Comrades Chairman Stalin and Mao had 100% approval it is claimed. Yeh sure they did

Even now 70% of Russians approve of Stalin with 56% even saying he was their greatest leader - both were despicable despots of the worst kind imaginable who one way or another ordered the deaths of 10's of millions and interned 10's of millions in gulags/re-education concentration camps

You conveniently provide questionable and unsupported examples of what that nasty wicked capitalist west has done whilst completely ignoring what has happened and does happen in commo countries under your favoured communist political system.- Ah yes the so called workers paradise

I can imagine you living in North Korea and being woken every day around 5 or 6 am by the high volume of North Korea Communist songs played every day then either walking or peddling by push bike from your designated residence to your designated place of work which are both chosen for you.

Very very few cars or even buses exist- passing by parks where folk are waving red flags -they are not practicing for some event they are doing this to encourage you to work harder for the supreme leader as he calls himself.

Forget about using the internet or mobile phone as these are for internal use only and only by the trusted few comrades- Have to watch North Korean Government TV with no subtitles and Cable TV is not available of course.

No nipping down to the shops whenever you feel like it either as there aren't many and they sell mainly limited packaged and canned goods as well like the majority of North Koreans you won't own a refrigerator either due to power shortages.

If you live in the more rural areas of North Korea you will be doing much hard labour as no machinery is available to ease the work burden and even less food/ products/services are available too which is similar in both China and Russia when you go beyond the bigger cities

Come on Comrade Paddo time you had the full communist experience in North Korea even if just as a tourist.

[mightyrooster]

Meanwhile...how's that special military operation in Ukraine going I wonder? Very 'entertaining' by the way you three. Sort of.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Sieg Salvo!
Enough with the ranting already. I shouldn't encourage you but the 96% comes from the Brookings Institute (Harvard University) which surveys citizen satisfaction with government world wide. Oh hang on it could be a buncha commos that McCarthy missed.
* Are these ordinary folk like the Chook Penners being bundled out of their homes at midnight their only crime a profound ignorance of all things political?
* North Korea was obliterated by Curtis Lemay and the USAF during the war there. Saturated with defoliants to the point where little grows and famine is commonplace as a result. Typical of the US, they fcuk it up and then jeer "Look at those stumblebums they can't feed themselves". And nongs here buy it (lookin' at you Obersturmfuhrer.)
* Russia is not Communist for the umpteenth. It was but has not been for 30 years, I dunno how does one explain such things to a dedicated Catholic person who believes in "priests"?
* What a lurid picture you paint of life in "Commo" countries. In some ways it doesn't sound so bad - no ads, no traffic snares, no social media, no cable TV (yay!!), no nipping down to the shops where some poor bastard is rostered at all hours on minimum wage or less.
* An American journalist wrote that the the most powerful weapon that the US has given Ukraine is its propaganda machine.

[ism22]

- Russia's not a dictatorship, people just choose not to protest, campaign against the incumbent government or have public gatherings because they supersticiously believe it might bring them bad luck.

- North Korea's only the way it is because of the USA. Ask the USA why they constantly provoke innocent little Kim Jong Un who would never hurt a fly. If they just left him alone, he'd be a saint!

- Telling me I refuse to live in Russia because living in an expansionary dictatorship sux balls is homo (which is illegal in Russia BTW, so there's no way I'd wanna break Vlad's holy, benevolent laws that are there for the good of the people).

- Some crusty old fart who's lost his marbles has been head of PM&C [with no previous career] and [then government-owned] Qantas (by sheer fluke, noting he has no clout as a contemporary thinker & is widely known to be a basket case). If you disagree with his utterances, you are wrong... unless you are head of PM&C or Qantas.

- Ukraine is rightfully one of Russia's babies and Russia has never tried to take it over by planting spies within its government and making fake pro-Russian movements in an attempt to say 'see... the babies just want their mother back!!! Aaaaaw so cuuute!' The evil USA has been the baby snatcher that's spread totally false propaganda that they are independent, democratic and want nothing to do with Russia. Joe Biden continues to train nazis from within who are sending Ukranian Russian Jews to the gulag and gassing thousands of innocent, Ukranian Russian Jews as we speak.

Thanks for your clarification, comrade.

[King Salvo]

Sieg Salvo!
Enough with the ranting already. I shouldn't encourage you but the 96% comes from the Brookings Institute (Harvard University) which surveys citizen satisfaction with government world wide. Oh hang on it could be a buncha commos that McCarthy missed.
* Are these ordinary folk like the Chook Penners being bundled out of their homes at midnight their only crime a profound ignorance of all things political?
* North Korea was obliterated by Curtis Lemay and the USAF during the war there. Saturated with defoliants to the point where little grows and famine is commonplace as a result. Typical of the US, they fcuk it up and then jeer "Look at those stumblebums they can't feed themselves". And nongs here buy it (lookin' at you Obersturmfuhrer.)
* Russia is not Communist for the umpteenth. It was but has not been for 30 years, I dunno how does one explain such things to a dedicated Catholic person who believes in "priests"?
* What a lurid picture you paint of life in "Commo" countries. In some ways it doesn't sound so bad - no ads, no traffic snares, no social media, no cable TV (yay!!), no nipping down to the shops where some poor bastard is rostered at all hours on minimum wage or less.
* An American journalist wrote that the the most powerful weapon that the US has given Ukraine is its propaganda machine.

Can you provide the link to this "96%" though

The parlous state of North Korea Agriculture lays at the feet of the so called "peoples" government with their military fed first policy/ stalinist collective farms compounded by poor farming techniques/ Investment/ lack of transport and storage facilities and natural disasters etc etc

When the Soviet Union Collapsed your Russian and Chinese mates withdraw support and demanded hard currency for imports so you can throw this into the above as well - mmm no honour among despot regimes it seems.

North Korea military budget is between 25 to 40% of their GDP so if they cut back on this then they would have funds to modernise their agriculture and other facilities such as power stations/hospitals/schools etc.

One would say you have never visited North Korea which would no doubt be on your bucket list but have you ever been to Communist China and or Autocratic/Plutocracy Russia though?

You speak so highly and fondly of both one would figure that if you did visit you would have loved it so much you would have made inquiries with the relevant body on how you could stay there on a somewhat permanent basis.

Ah yes old little legs Putin on his meager salary of 140k and a lazy few hundred billion in assets around the world must stay up at night worrying about the common folk in city/rural/country regions of Russia struggling to make ends meet.

Struggle to buy new shoes even

The Kremlin press secretary has said he cannot understand a survey that shows that Russians struggle to afford new shoes.

Dmitry Peskov was commenting on a report by state statistics agency Rosstat.

It found that a third of households polled could not afford two pairs of shoes per person, per year.

The data also revealed that 80% of Russian families found it difficult to make ends meet.

According to Rosstat calculations, in the first quarter of 2022 the number of people with incomes below the poverty line was 20.9 million. At the same time, at the end of 2021, the agency reported 12.4 million Russians below the poverty line. Thus, in the first three months of 2022 there were 8.5 million more poor people in Russia, or 68.5%. In the first quarter of 2022, Rosstat proceeded from 12,916 rubles per month - the minimum income, sufficient to live in Russia, according to the department.

12916 rubles is 335.05 AUD

The Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat) is the governmental statistics agency in Russia

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47800419

[Random Rooster]

Meanwhile...how's that special military operation in Ukraine going I wonder? Very 'entertaining' by the way you three. Sort of.

I'd like to know why it was necessary to impose martial law in areas that 93% of residents voted in favour of being under Russia rule over Ukraines?? Why does the military need the power to do whatever they like when you got compliant citizens that have got your back?

[King Salvo]

I'd like to know why it was necessary to impose martial law in areas that 93% of residents voted in favour of being under Russia rule over Ukraines?? Why does the military need the power to do whatever they like when you got compliant citizens that have got your back?

If the "referendum" was legit there would be no reason to impose martial law.

One would seriously ask the question if they were willing voters though in this "referendum" - Armed Militia/Russian Soldiers coming to your residence and or stopping you in the street/store etc and taking you to a voting station where you're strongly encouraged to vote a certain way raises legitimate questions about the validity of the result of such a "referendum".

The following is a common story

Mariupol resident Oleksandr, 53, had just entered a hardware store when Russian soldiers suddenly came up to him and took him outside.

They were holding rifles. The soldiers asked if Oleksandr wanted to vote, and he said "no." But they took him to the nearest "polling station" anyway, forcing him to participate in the sham annexation "votes."

The Russian soldiers weren't precisely dragging him by force, but "they made it clear that it's worth going and voting to join Russia," Oleksandr said. "They claimed if we vote 'yes,' we can live peacefully and prosperously."

Those of military age in these Russian annexed/occupied regions were threatened with mobilization into the Russian army if they did not vote - those that refused to vote where taken on mass to conscription offices - forced conscription.

Human rights activists estimate over 100,000 Ukrainians have been conscripted in occupied Donbas since mid-February. Forced conscription in the occupied territories is a war crime, experts say, calling it abduction.

[Andrew Walker]

I'd like to know why it was necessary to impose martial law in areas that 93% of residents voted in favour of being under Russia rule over Ukraines?? Why does the military need the power to do whatever they like when you got compliant citizens that have got your back?

I am sure it is for their safety