Minus Russian propaganda, what's the real story on the Ukraine?

[Random Rooster]

Yay! I win, can you fcuk off now?

Kari Lake said she won too!!

Co-incidentally she is against the US support of Ukraine against Russia....along with the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Paul Gosar, Rand Paul, Josh Hawley.....these are the far right Republican politicians your views align with....yet ironically it's the same side of politics you accuse others of standing with. Makes no sense

[mightyrooster]

It’s getting a bit heated in here.

[Paddo Colt 61]

I have no knowledge of those to whom you refer Randy but I presume that your "knowledge" comes from Fox News which pretty much explains your opinions.

It's not uncommon for the views of those normally diametrically opposed to coincide for different reasons. My view is that Russia has a case re the Ukraine and that the real culprit in the whole affair is the evil Empire. Republican troglodytes on the other hand are opposed because the Trumpists are essentially isolationist and resent the drain on American treasure. Rather than seeing the US as a culprit, they champion US exceptionalism. In other words don't get involved other than to bomb the bejeezus out of anyone who gets in the way of US hegemony. The other motive is to discredit the Democrats by whatever means possible.

I got a meathead acquaintance who sits with his dog watchin' that Murdoch shit all day. At the time it was like 9/11 affected him personally. He couldn't see the brilliance, bravery and commitment of those who retaliated against an Empire which was/is the most violent and murderous on Earth. The one that mug Australia has hitched its wagon to. Maybe you're him? Live in Clovelly?

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster; It's getting a bit heated in here.

I'm sorry dear. I normally avoid emotion but that ratbag tag team would try the patience of a saint and I don't much care for that paedophile slur. Might do something about it - take away his Super and the holiday house for starters.

[mightyrooster]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n971095][QUOTE=mightyrooster; It's getting a bit heated in here.

I'm sorry dear. I normally avoid emotion but that ratbag tag team would try the patience of a saint and I don't much care for that paedophile slur. Might do something about it - take away his Super and the holiday house for starters.

[/QUOTE]

Do I also detect a bit of sarcastic derision directed my way there? I was only making an observation. I do agree though the paedophile slur is over the top. I also miss the poetry thread I have to say.

[Paddo Colt 61]

No derision.

[Random Rooster]

I have no knowledge of those to whom you refer Randy but I presume that your "knowledge" comes from Fox News which pretty much explains your opinions.

It's not uncommon for the views of those normally diametrically opposed to coincide for different reasons. My view is that Russia has a case re the Ukraine and that the real culprit in the whole affair is the evil Empire. Republican troglodytes on the other hand are opposed because the Trumpists are essentially isolationist and resent the drain on American treasure. Rather than seeing the US as a culprit, they champion US exceptionalism. In other words don't get involved other than to bomb the bejeezus out of anyone who gets in the way of US hegemony. The other motive is to discredit the Democrats by whatever means possible.

I got a meathead acquaintance who sits with his dog watchin' that Murdoch shit all day. At the time it was like 9/11 affected him personally. He couldn't see the brilliance, bravery and commitment of those who retaliated against an Empire which was/is the most violent and murderous on Earth. The one that mug Australia has hitched its wagon to. Maybe you're him? Live in Clovelly?

Hate to disappoint you.....

I was born in Bankstown, grew up in Bankstown, my political idol was our local member Paul Keating and was present at the Bankstown Sports club when he won his 2 elections.The only time i voted Liberal was for Malcolm Turnbull- even then it was because of Paul Keating revealing the extent of their friendship when i went and saw him speak at the Opera House. I got a beautiful caricature print hand signed by Keating,Whitlam, Hawke,Wran,Bracks and Bob Carr that i picked up at a Labor fundraiser....maybe even impress you?

Ohh i dont read the Tele but i did tune in to Sky News Australia last week to see Peta Credlin have a sook. I also checked in with Fox News after the mid-terms....enjoyable viewing

So when you make out that i'm some big right wing conservative it's so far off the mark i got to laugh. Maybe your radar isn't as accurate about everything and everyone like you think it is??? Just a thought

[ism22]

Kari Lake said she won too!!

Co-incidentally she is against the US support of Ukraine against Russia....along with the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Paul Gosar, Rand Paul, Josh Hawley.....these are the far right Republican politicians your views align with....yet ironically it's the same side of politics you accuse others of standing with. Makes no sense

In as few words as possible (gimme a minute, I'll try to whittle it down)... IMO Paddo's confusion is that he's a Whitlam fan who hasn't updated his understanding of geopolitics to 2022.

- Whitlam/Fraser were progressive because they opened up trade to Asia (including China).

- Russia and China's current leaders are far more nationalist/protectionist (i.e. right-wing) that they were back then.

- Supporting free trade is left-wing. Supporting wars and expansionary dictatorships is not.

- Paddo is backing right-wing nationalism rather than progressive social policies (e.g. 'no war', 'liberalism', 'democracy'...etc).

In summary, he wants to be cutting edge and relevant like Whitlam and Fraser were at the time they were opening up to countries that included Russia and China. However, his wires are crossed. Rather than being a critic of Fox's right-wing media, he just hates all media that's coming outta liberal democracies. All of it. The left, the right, the centre... he thinks it's all cooked and the Kremlin/CCP are the only sources you can trust.

Alas by doing so he's not being progressive like Whitlam and Fraser were when they implemented progressive trade policies. He's backing some of the most batshyte crazy, right-wing ideologies out there... which includes an invasion of Ukraine, backed by hardcore Russian nationalists.

[King Salvo]

In as few words as possible (gimme a minute, I'll try to whittle it down)... IMO Paddo's confusion is that he's a Whitlam fan who hasn't updated his understanding of geopolitics to 2022.

- Whitlam/Fraser were progressive because they opened up trade to Asia (including China).

- Russia and China's current leaders are far more nationalist/protectionist (i.e. right-wing) that they were back then.

- Supporting free trade is left-wing. Supporting wars and expansionary dictatorships is not.

- Paddo is backing right-wing nationalism rather than progressive social policies (e.g. 'no war', 'liberalism', 'democracy'...etc).

In summary, he wants to be cutting edge and relevant like Whitlam and Fraser were at the time they were opening up to countries that included Russia and China. However, his wires are crossed. Rather than being a critic of Fox's right-wing media, he just hates all media that's coming outta liberal democracies. All of it. The left, the right, the centre... he thinks it's all cooked and the Kremlin/CCP are the only sources you can trust.

Alas by doing so he's not being progressive like Whitlam and Fraser were when they implemented progressive trade policies. He's backing some of the most batshyte crazy, right-wing ideologies out there... which includes an invasion of Ukraine, backed by hardcore Russian nationalists.

Comrade Paddo would have been jealous that Whitlam met one of his hero's in Comrade Mao.

Ah yes Mao's great leap forward (1958-62) and cultural revolution - 1966 to 1976 (little red book/red army/red guards) where 80 million through starvation , prison hard labour /mass murder and executions lost their lives.

Even Cats/Dogs/Birds were not spared as they were seen as a sign of bourgeois decadence in the so called cultural revolution which only ended when Mao died in 1976.

Like their Soviet Union commie mates all three bodies of the orchestrators of forced starvation/ mass murder and executions/deportations/imprisonment in gulags and re-education concentration camps in Lenin/Stalin/Mao were put on permanent public display in specially built mausoleums. Stalin after being denounced by Khrushchev was later removed from the Lenin mausoleum and buried.

Maybe Comrade Paddo can explain why his beloved Russia still has Lenin in a mausoleum and haven't buried him yet - Ditto China who kind of denounced Mao.

According to Comrade Paddo though there is nothing wrong with these types of regimes and or communism and any adverse comments about China and Russia/Soviet Union is purely US led West Capitalist Running Dogs propaganda and we are all brainwashed sheepies to believe it.

Baa humbug

[Paddo Colt 61]

Do these two write for the Betoota Advocate? If not they should - a total waste of Absurdist talent right there.

There are many who would share the opinions of Heckle & Jeckle here without any real thought about their own trusting emotional commitment - that's what it is, emotional, most people are strangers to rationality. I saw a poster outside a pub in Botany last night (I don't drink but the Captain Cook does a good, reasonably priced steak). Anyway, the poster showed a gentleman with a befuddled look on his face and it read " Think independently? Too hard. Much easier to believe the mainstream media and politicians". It gave me a little cause for optimism but not that much.

In the moral purity stakes the US must finish mid to late field at best. As a nation its origins rest on human slavery - millions of humans from Africa. Its venerated "founding fathers" owned other human beings to whom they did not extend the principle that "all men are created equal" nor were those unfortunates entitled to "the pursuit of happiness".

After the Civil War which was essentially fought over money (the economic future direction - industrial or plantation- certainly not the iniquity of slavery) Lincoln's replacement, the former slave owner Andrew Johnson reinstated States Rights to the defeated South where former slaves far outnumbered the white population. Johnson saw the implications of a black majority when it came to voting so the task was then to prevent that probable demise of white supremacy. Jim Crow laws and worse ensued and that same dire suppression endures up to the present, plain for all to see in the jailed population - Gulags anyone? The irony is that the black suppressed minority provides the pop culture forms that underpin American soft power - that which influences Sheeple the world over to see the US as a benign, positive place. Its racist history is also the reason that it is prone to bomb the bejeezus out of the coloured world with little or no compunction.

"Think independently people? Too hard. Much easier to believe the media and politicians". Heckle & Jeckle do.
.

[King Salvo]

Do these two write for the Betoota Advocate? If not they should - a total waste of Absurdist talent right there.

There are many who would share the opinions of Heckle & Jeckle here without any real thought about their own trusting emotional commitment - that's what it is, emotional, most people are strangers to rationality. I saw a poster outside a pub in Botany last night (I don't drink but the Captain Cook does a good, reasonably priced steak). Anyway, the poster showed a gentleman with a befuddled look on his face and it read " Think independently? Too hard. Much easier to believe the mainstream media and politicians". It gave me a little cause for optimism but not that much.

In the moral purity stakes the US must finish mid to late field at best. As a nation its origins rest on human slavery - millions of humans from Africa. Its venerated "founding fathers" owned other human beings to whom they did not extend the principle that "all men are created equal" nor were those unfortunates entitled to "the pursuit of happiness".

After the Civil War which was essentially fought over money (the economic future direction - industrial or plantation- certainly not the iniquity of slavery) Lincoln's replacement, the former slave owner Andrew Johnson reinstated States Rights to the defeated South where former slaves far outnumbered the white population. Johnson saw the implications of a black majority when it came to voting so the task was then to prevent that probable demise of white supremacy. Jim Crow laws and worse ensued and that same dire suppression endures up to the present, plain for all to see in the jailed population - Gulags anyone? The irony is that the black suppressed minority provides the pop culture forms that underpin American soft power - that which influences Sheeple the world over to see the US as a benign, positive place. Its racist history is also the reason that it is prone to bomb the bejeezus out of the coloured world with little or no compunction.

"Think independently people? Too hard. Much easier to believe the media and politicians". Heckle & Jeckle do.
.

General

mmm so all folk under communist regimes were/are allowed to think independently?

These evil commie regimes caused so much pain and suffering for 100's of million of their citizens through forced starvation/persecution/deportations to gulags and re-education concentration camps/ mass murder and mass executions.

I suppose next you will say Stalin's 5 years plans/Purges and Mao Great Leap forward and cultural revolution were necessary so folk could think "independently"

Not sure how you could ever equate US Prisons to the Gulags and re-education concentration camps they had and still have in the Soviet Union/Russia and China though.

Racism

Racism mmm your beloved Soviet Union/Russia and China are the top of the major league when it comes to racism one has to say

Stalin reversed much of his predecessor's previous internationalist policies, signing off on orders for exiling multiple distinct ethnic-linguistic groups brandished as "traitors", including the Balkars, Crimean Tatars , Chechens, Ingusg . Karachays , Koreans , Meskhetian Turks , Ethnic Germans , Ukrainians , Armenians , Azerbaijanis etc who were collectively deported to Siberia or Central Asia, where they were legally designated " Special Settlers " meaning that they were officially second-class citizens with few rights and were confined within a small perimeter.

The winter of 1953, however, was especially dark and ominous, especially for the city’s Jews. On January 13th, Pravda announced the discovery of the Doctors’ Plot, a supposed conspiracy by high-ranking Jewish physicians to murder important Kremlin officials. The report launched a vicious anti-Semitic media campaign that played on long-standing Russian fears and hatreds. By the end of February, Jews across the country believed in the imminence of a pogrom that would murder thousands of them and exile the survivors to concentration camps in the Soviet Far East.

Not forgetting Russia in current times either - Chechnya/Georgia/Ukraine

It is well documented the inhuman treatment of ethnic minorities in China throughout it's History(Various Dynasties/Mao's great leap forward and cultural revolution) up to current times - Uyghurs and Tibetans for an example

US

In 1870, the 15th Amendment was ratified to prohibit states from denying a male citizen the right to vote based on “race, color or previous condition of servitude."

The Majority of Confederate Soldiers didn't own slaves and only around 4% of the population of the South were actually slave owners. - Most would say they were fighting for the concept of states rights and not pro slavery reasons.

Britain abolished slavery in 1833 and the US and other countries should have followed suit.

Communist Slavery

Basically most folk living under communist regimes were/are slaves - slaves to be used by the communist party in any capacity required and slaves to the commie Ideaology and personality cult of their leaders.

As I said the Russian Federation may not be communist but it does share similarities to the old USSR including being a slave to the Ideaology and personality cult of it's leader - Old Little Legs Putin and his band of cronies.

One would say if folk in the West had a choice between Capitalism and Communism 99.99% would chose Capitalism - Dtto the former countries of the USSR that voted to leave.

As Free Citizens in the West we have a choice and can think for ourselves.

The real sheepies are those poor folk who have lived or live under communist regimes or those with a love and passion for commie ideology and with outdated cold war anti US/West views

[Paddo Colt 61]

Blah...blah...blah. Talk to the hand unless there is a newer refrain. This stuff is Right Wing tosh with a definite Catholic tinge to it not to mention a generous dose on mind reading on your part. As I've pointed out, a Harvard University survey indicates that 90% of World opinion is sympathetic to both Russia and China.

[King Salvo]

90% of the world !!! - That must have some survey then to survey 8 billion people

[ism22]

90% of the world !!! - That must have some survey then to survey 8 billion people

LOLz he probably read it on some alt right blog, so it must be true. I just did a web search and the only remotely similar stats I can find are...

- 30% of Republicans think the US is providing too much support for Ukraine (i.e. the PaeddoColt69'ers from the alt-right).

- 56% of Russians support the war.

[Random Rooster]

Tucker Paddo Murdoch Carlsson telling it like it is.....

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...ines-zelenskyy