Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Just kidding MR. I like to pull the teacher tone now and then - takes me back.

No, I was wanting to say that in the many discussions you've had, do you mean on here or more widely? If more widely, I trust that you express a more balanced opinion than that with which you began? We've put the no case on this thread over time so you might now be a little more circumspect? This is not a rebuke, just askin' is all.

Somehow I picture you at a dinner party raising the Ukraine topic after the discussion of kids and the footy falters. Ah them's were the days, ear bashing people at the few dinner parties I was invited to. Guests would jostle for seats furthest away from me. What I'm sayin' is you've gotta watch it at dinner groups and don't lay the Russian case on too thickly.

[mightyrooster]

Paddo, most of that went over my head. Dinner parties are really not my style. Too upmarket for me and I’m really, really surprised that guests would jostle for seats further away from you. I could think of nothing more exciting than copping an ear bashing on the virtues of Vlad and Xi Jinping.

[mightyrooster]

Also Paddo, once and for all can you stop saying my opinion isn’t balanced. I have one of the most balanced opinions on here. I’m not all out pro US as I hate the US. I’m not pro Putin either and I’ve pointed out several times that we need to have a good relationship with China. There are plenty on here that are flat out biased in either direction and you are one of them.

[zac]

Well we haven't got the big stick presently and see Keating's comments on even if we did. Do you not see that the US is hell bent to limit the power of China for economic reasons, certainly not ideological. They're Capitalist in practice fgs? We are now part of the US strategy no matter what Albo says. That was the Scomo plan and that is understood. Sheridan said that a China takeover of Taiwan would mean war for the US+ Oz because the Chinese would go for Pine Gap - he's a ex seminarian, US devotee and a warmonger and not worth listening to but his views are the views of Oz conservatives. Of course the masses are, at the moment, alright with that.

maybe there are problems down the track but atm the deal gives us a big stick. what's a big stick is in the eye of the beholder and i'd say atm china will see us as a potentially bigger threat. we need to use that to our advantage and get on the record as wanting to improve our relationship with china. it's in both our interests and as ironic as it may seem the aukus deal might help if we get the diplomacy right. a big if but not impossible.

sure, china is a great power and has legitimate interests in its own backyard and any attempt to prevent that could end up badly

[A Country Member]

Due to the ‘big stick’ being applied by fellow Chookpenners, I’ve now accepted our loss sovereignty and started to talk like an American.

As I want to sound legitimate, I’ve decided I want to adopt a particular area’s sound. The current options are:

Boston - quite peculiar and may disguise my Aussie drawl
North Dakota - to confuse any actual mericans I might encounter
Seattle - in case my leanings are exposed

Any guidance ‘big stickers’ ?

[zac]

Due to the ‘big stick’ being applied by fellow Chookpenners, I’ve now accepted our loss sovereignty and started to talk like an American.

As I want to sound legitimate, I’ve decided I want to adopt a particular area’s sound. The current options are:

Boston - quite peculiar and may disguise my Aussie drawl
North Dakota - to confuse any actual mericans I might encounter
Seattle - in case my leanings are exposed

Any guidance ‘big stickers’ ?

you could always put it up your arse?
i don't see this as a loss of sovereignty vis a vis the yanks. in fact, if we play our cards right, we could use it to assert our independence - 'we're not going to help you with taiwan but don't worry, our aukus commitment shows that we're committed for the long haul'. \

[A Country Member]

you could always put it up your arse?
i don't see this as a loss of sovereignty vis a vis the yanks. in fact, if we play our cards right, we could use it to assert our independence - 'we're not going to help you with taiwan but don't worry, our aukus commitment shows that we're committed for the long haul'. \

Lemme get this straight. The ‘big stick’ will scare the Chinese into lowering prices and make trading with Aus easier?

I know where you can shove that idea

What radio station do you tune into whilst driving?

[ism22]

Lol.. Paddo. There’s a difference? Yes one includes China in the title and the other Ukraine but in essence both threads could be merged and given the heading ‘Minus the MSM version, what’s the facts on the US and it’s global intentions’.

Also Paddo, once and for all can you stop saying my opinion isn’t balanced. I have one of the most balanced opinions on here. I’m not all out pro US as I hate the US. I’m not pro Putin either and I’ve pointed out several times that we need to have a good relationship with China. There are plenty on here that are flat out biased in either direction and you are one of them.

Hear, hear!!!

I can't see what Paddo and/or his alts are saying (and don't care as I've already heard it - can only see this thread because you made a post most recently) but I agree. Your views are balanced and reflect reality.

Re the multiple threads - the titles are really just attention seeking clickbait, aimed at leveraging current affairs matters to entice people into arguing whether Australia should be a close ally of the USA or a close ally of Russia/China.

In reality the answer is that structurally we're a liberal democracy with a constitution and common law system that are incompatible with becoming a little dictatorship. To change this we would need a 'Copy Russia and China' party to get into power and make sweeping constitutional changes so that John Menadue is our Dear Leader until death do us part. Happy for Paddo to lobby for it but I don't think this grand plan has any MAINSTREAM support FOR GOOD REASON!!! Hence why the easier solution is to move to Russia / China if you hate Australia and think it's broken beyond repair without such changes. We're not gonna change for John Farking Menadue, Bob Carr and Shanghai Sam (all of whom were sacked for good reason!!!)

Our politicians don't always get it right and we get a say on things like exiting the Vietnam War, taking in victims of the Tiananmen Square Massacre, post Port Arthur gun laws, Iraq, Hicks, Work Choices, gay marriage, Robodebt, climate change...etc (unlike cough cough... China/Russia where you get what you get and you don't get upset... otherwise they'll lock you up).

End of the day we all support democracy, open courts, secularism, non-discrimination legislation...etc. This doesn't mean the government of the day will always 'get it right' or please everybody. In fact, we're rightly skeptical of our leaders, which is a GOOD thing because if we weren't then we'd never see things like withdrawal from wars (we left Vietnam/Iraq because they were unpopular, not because we were outta soldiers/guns) and shyte policies like Robodebt being found unlawful (doesn't happen in China/Russia as courts are not independent).

Australia ain't perfect but it could sure be a lot worse! I don't think that behaving like Russia would improve our quality of life or give us more freedom. Quite the opposite...

[A Country Member]

They haven’t cancelled me. They still read my posts lol

[A Country Member]

Anyone doing business with China best be worried. Heaven forbid you are Asian

[mightyrooster]

Hear, hear!!!

I can't see what Paddo and/or his alts are saying (and don't care as I've already heard it - can only see this thread because you made a post most recently) but I agree. Your views are balanced and reflect reality.

Re the multiple threads - the titles are really just attention seeking clickbait, aimed at leveraging current affairs matters to entice people into arguing whether Australia should be a close ally of the USA or a close ally of Russia/China.

In reality the answer is that structurally we're a liberal democracy with a constitution and common law system that are incompatible with becoming a little dictatorship. To change this we would need a 'Copy Russia and China' party to get into power and make sweeping constitutional changes so that John Menadue is our Dear Leader until death do us part. Happy for Paddo to lobby for it but I don't think this grand plan has any MAINSTREAM support FOR GOOD REASON!!! Hence why the easier solution is to move to Russia / China if you hate Australia and think it's broken beyond repair without such changes. We're not gonna change for John Farking Menadue, Bob Carr and Shanghai Sam (all of whom were sacked for good reason!!!)

Our politicians don't always get it right and we get a say on things like exiting the Vietnam War, taking in victims of the Tiananmen Square Massacre, post Port Arthur gun laws, Iraq, Hicks, Work Choices, gay marriage, Robodebt, climate change...etc (unlike cough cough... China/Russia where you get what you get and you don't get upset... otherwise they'll lock you up).

End of the day we all support democracy, open courts, secularism, non-discrimination legislation...etc. This doesn't mean the government of the day will always 'get it right' or please everybody. In fact, we're rightly skeptical of our leaders, which is a GOOD thing because if we weren't then we'd never see things like withdrawal from wars (we left Vietnam/Iraq because they were unpopular, not because we were outta soldiers/guns) and shyte policies like Robodebt being found unlawful (doesn't happen in China/Russia as courts are not independent).

Australia ain't perfect but it could sure be a lot worse! I don't think that behaving like Russia would improve our quality of life or give us more freedom. Quite the opposite...

Exactly! Also, sorry my posts dragged you back in here as I know you’ve been trying to stay away. I posted what I thought was a well balanced thoughtful post only to be told it was actually the opposite and lacking balance. I think it’s deliberate as surely a former high school teacher can read and interpret simple English.

[zac]

Lemme get this straight. The ‘big stick’ will scare the Chinese into lowering prices and make trading with Aus easier?

I know where you can shove that idea

What radio station do you tune into whilst driving?

i don't think it will scare china into anything but neither will it be the hindrance that logic would suggest - if we get the diplomacy right

[Paddo Colt 61]

SOME COMMENTS:

* The thrust of my concern from the get go in each of the current affair threads is not that we should be like any other country in ideology, it is and has been about the way that we are informed by a near monopoly MSM and an emasculated ABC. Our media and bureaucracy share a group think which never bothers its audience with context let alone the case of the other side. It's not too different, in fact it is exactly like, what others here claim is is an "unfree" media in Russia and China.

Our MSM is the tool of just a few right wing oligarchs acting in tandem with the conservative establishment of which it is part. AUKUS began as a very expensive wedge intended to reflect poorly on the ALP's security credentials (not that ALP policy hasn't been slavishly pro US in recent years) and a spineless ALP, wanting to avoid that wedge has saddled us with all with the plan's wrong headedness. It was from the outset a win-win for the Right that holds actual power in our country.

* Did you notice that in the embarrassing (for the Media) question time at the Keating NPC appearance that Matthew Knott, co author of the China war series, in his list of China "sins" did not mention Tiananmen Square? Memo to those on here still flogging that dead horse, it's time to erase it - it didn't happen though the MSM won't tell you that even though they avoid its mention these days. It is/was a crude propaganda lie exposed by Wikileaks releasing documents that we would never, otherwise, have seen which should make us all the more skeptical of US propaganda.

* Yours is a misguided view of Australia's military clout not to mention importance, Zac. Oz is inconsequential globally and, minus the US "alliance", pretty much irrelevant in the Indo- Pacific. Your Australia, independent and with a few theoretical nuclear Subs to back up what you suggest could be our confident, firm but fair relations with neighbours, doesn't exist and arguably never will. Our Right wing masters (including the "me too" ALP has thrown in our lot, inextricably, with the interests of a powerful, aggressive global Empire.

[zac]

hey, if the government had come out and said that they're going to move away from aukus, spend more money on foreign aid in the pacific and look for closer ties with china i wouldn't have complained. who can be sure what's right? my point is that there is a way that aukus can work to our advantage - if we get out diplomacy boots on and work on the relationship with china

[Paddo Colt 61]

What we can be sure about is that the spectre of an "invasion" of Australia is ludicrous. The idea that it is effective with regard to a largish percentage of the population is the worry. It means that we assign our ongoing fortunes to a significant group that is disconnected and inclined to believe anything that they are told by a lying media.

Hopefully, the calls for a Royal Commision into Newscorp will bear fruit. The trouble that Murdoch is in in the US, and has been in the UK, would appear to make investigation here a no brainer.