Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[eddie]

Or use the quote button properly.

I think he has to be doing that on purpose..............although the only reasons I can think of for him doing so are pretty childish.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=eddie; Well I did the exercise and googled it, even though I remember what happened.....Bob Hawke crying and all. Anyway, it just confirmed what I knew. By all reports a lot more people died than China has ever admitted.

Keep on diggin' that hole Eddie. The Wikileaks leaked documents are not part of a conspiracy theory like the Moon landing, they are official US communiques from the Embassy in Beijing. You can't sneer "Bullshit!" at them. Well you can, but doing that would only say something very embarrassing about you. C'mon Edwin, you didn't read it - google "Wikileaks Tiananmen Square". You were more concerned with having a go at Hawkie. Gotta kick out at something or else that "gut feeling" of yours ain't never gonna go away.

For those interested enough there is a fine piece by John Pilger about US propaganda on johnmenadue.com this morning. No doubt the reaction of the Congas will be the "Ah...that Lefty" sneer but he has won the UK's top award for Journalism twice. It's worth reading especially by those who can't imagine that what they read in the MSM is crude propaganda.

[eddie]

Keep on diggin' that hole Eddie. The Wikileaks leaked documents are not part of a conspiracy theory like the Moon landing, they are official US communiques from the Embassy in Beijing. You can't sneer "Bullshit!" at them. Well you can, but doing that would only say something very embarrassing about you. C'mon Edwin, you didn't read it - google "Wikileaks Tiananmen Square". You were more concerned with having a go at Hawkie. Gotta kick out at something or else that "gut feeling" of yours ain't never gonna go away.
For those interested enough there is a fine piece by John Pilger about US propaganda on johnmenadue.com this morning. No doubt the reaction of the Congas will be the "Ah...that Lefty" sneer but he has won the UK's top award for Journalism twice. It's worth reading especially by those who can't imagine that what they read in the MSM is crude propaganda.

Yes I found it and read three long pages of reports.
Some of it was a bit contradictory.
The eye witnesses were not present the whole time and admitted their experiences weren't typical of all foreigners at the time.
One report denied any mass shooting took place in the square, but did say there was a lot of killing a couple of klms away.
It stated a lot of students in the square were "beat up".
All in all, I'm not sure what to take out of it, although I admit I did find it interesting.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=eddie; The eye witnesses were not present the whole time and admitted their experiences weren't typical of all foreigners at the time.
One report denied any mass shooting took place in the square, but did say there was a lot of killing a couple of klms away.
It stated a lot of students in the square were "beat up". All in all, I'm not sure what to take out of it, although I admit I did find it interesting.

Well it's a Square, not Central Park so I don't see how "their experiences weren't typical". Witnesses said that they'd heard of killings elsewhere but hadn't seen that themselves - hear say! Would beaten protesters say things like "They're killing us a few blocks away, murdering people!".

Yeah, a lot of people were beaten up just like they are in any place where they refuse to disperse. The US is notorious for having riotous police. As for "not being there all of the time" it is inconceivable that a mass killing of hundreds by crushing bodies would not be noticeable hours, even days later. That's why we don't hear about it anymore except from Voodoo Man who obviously does not want his faith in the US shaken by anything, let alone truth. Nor do we hear anything of "Tank Man" whose identity and "gruesome death" would have made bountiful propaganda copy - nothing since the photo, probably trying to cross the road.

The bottom line is that the tanks crushing people and the square knee deep in blood is bullshit and we know that from US official documents exposed by Wikileaks. Ol' Hawkie gave it gravitas here, showing how trusting Western leaders can be of US intel but then Hawkie was a CIA guy for sure, the perfect target for them in the 50/60s - a right wing trade union official with a religious anti communist background. He too took us into US military adventures, his silence was deafening after the coup in '75 and he made things much harder for Labor with Union wage demands during that period of government.

[A Country Member]

For those interested enough there is a fine piece by John Pilger about US propaganda on johnmenadue.com this morning. No doubt the reaction of the Congas will be the "Ah...that Lefty" sneer but he has won the UK's top award for Journalism twice. It's worth reading especially by those who can't imagine that what they read in the MSM is crude propaganda.

It makes you realise why the arts are incredibly important, whether it be Riefenstahl, Pilger or Jerry Bruckheimer shaping the way people take on information.

The US DoD has long funded the ‘submissive void’ via Hollywood flicks that infiltrate the wider world not just the west. When Leni does it, it’s brainwashing and when Jerry does it it’s informative entertainment.

Side note, I wonder if Pilger is a Easts man?

[Paddo Colt 61]

Grew up in Moore St Bondi. Sydney Boys High but I doubt it. Too much going on.

[zac]

It makes you realise why the arts are incredibly important, whether it be Riefenstahl, Pilger or Jerry Bruckheimer shaping the way people take on information.

The US DoD has long funded the ‘submissive void’ via Hollywood flicks that infiltrate the wider world not just the west. When Leni does it, it’s brainwashing and when Jerry does it it’s informative entertainment.

Side note, I wonder if Pilger is a Easts man?

fair points - it's good to be sceptical but not cynical of everything

[A Country Member]

fair points - it's good to be sceptical but not cynical of everything

Sorry to bring this over to rugby league but being cynical is worthy of a penalty these days. Heard it a while back and again last week I think.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=A Country Member;n962183]
It makes you realise why the arts are incredibly important, whether it be Riefenstahl, Pilger or Jerry Bruckheimer shaping the way people take on information.
The US DoD has long funded the submissive void via Hollywood flicks that infiltrate the wider world not just the west. When Leni does it, it's brainwashing and when Jerry does it it's informative entertainment.

Good analogy Count. Began in the 50s with Westerns where the individual saves the commune. I've never seen a Bruckheimer but his rubbish is pervasive, big Republican donor as well. Even high school history in the States serves up myth as fact.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE= fair points - it's good to be sceptical but not cynical of everything

Is the abandonment of upper case and most punctuation a style thing Zac? Not being critical, asking for a friend is all.

[Rooster1908]

Fu&k China and Fu&k Souths . Sorry MR for the language

[ism22]

Fu&k China and Fu&k Souths . Sorry MR for the language

Pretty much.

Not gonna waste any of my time glorifying either.

[mightyrooster]

Fu&k China and Fu&k Souths . Sorry MR for the language

No worries 08, you can throw in Putin there too while you’re at it. And Latrine. And Cody…

[zac]

Sorry to bring this over to rugby league but being cynical is worthy of a penalty these days. Heard it a while back and again last week I think.

and a good thing to - if he'd been sceptical it would have been play on

[bondi.boy]

Get it right on China?
Yes let's.
Chinese warships are cruising around our coastline within sight of land.
China has shafted us on trade and hurled insults at us, calling Australia "gum under China's shoe".
China has said it will be taking back Taiwan...US has said (Biden) it will defend Taiwan.
China gets Taiwan, who's next in line for invasion?
Yes, exactly.