Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[mightyrooster]

I think I may have mentioned Paddo’s repetitive, predictable posting on this topic at least one or two times before now.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

I think I may have mentioned Paddo’s repetitive, predictable posting on this topic at least one or two times before now.

Yes MR I wasn't responding to your comment specifically, just trying to balance the overall ledger.

[King Salvo]

Menadue's Swirls and Deviations brainwashing has zero affect on the thinking folk on here and only is useful for those folk susceptible to brainwashing.

[Andrew Walker]

Pearls and Irritations is quality The ones offended are the ones who do not like their own views being challenged Their responses to it say a lot about them and most of it not good

[mightyrooster]

Yes MR I wasn't responding to your comment specifically, just trying to balance the overall ledger.

I get that Jack. My view still is that this is the Off Topic section so open to non-footy related discussions, within reason of course. I've spent enough of my life debating with Paddo on these topics so I feel there's nothing more I can contribute and the argument has just become circular. I agree with him on some aspects such as US hypocrisy but can't agree with him on the idea that a dictatorship is better than democracy. I also agree that the media is used as a tool for manipulating the masses, but that's hardly a new concept and it happens on all sides. I'm not so naive as to not know when the ABC or Fairfax is pushing a particular agenda or Sky News or News Ltd. I find the assumption that we're all dumb sheeple that don't see through this as insulting. I also find it a ridiculous that the sheeple apparently only exist in the 'West' and humans that live under Russian and Chinese models of government are all highly intelligent and so obviously fully support everything their leaders do. There's some kind of hypocrisy there too.

Anyway, basically I've stopped contributing because I've said all I've had to say but am happy for others to continue so long as it's a healthy debate I think that's a good thing. I'm not worried about what Paddo says because I believe we're all intelligent enough to make up our own minds. With ism's images though it was amusing at first but I just find they've lost their effectiveness now, a bit like Paddo and his broken record.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

I get that Jack. My view still is that this is the Off Topic section so open to non-footy related discussions, within reason of course. I've spent enough of my life debating with Paddo on these topics so I feel there's nothing more I can contribute and the argument has just become circular. I agree with him on some aspects such as US hypocrisy but can't agree with him on the idea that a dictatorship is better than democracy. I also agree that the media is used as a tool for manipulating the masses, but that's hardly a new concept and it happens on all sides. I'm not so naive as to not know when the ABC or Fairfax is pushing a particular agenda or Sky News or News Ltd. I find the assumption that we're all dumb sheeple that don't see through this as insulting. I also find it a ridiculous that the sheeple apparently only exist in the 'West' and humans that live under Russian and Chinese models of government are all highly intelligent and so obviously fully support everything their leaders do. There's some kind of hypocrisy there too.

Anyway, basically I've stopped contributing because I've said all I've had to say but am happy for others to continue so long as it's a healthy debate I think that's a good thing. I'm not worried about what Paddo says because I believe we're all intelligent enough to make up our own minds. With ism's images though it was amusing at first but I just find they've lost their effectiveness now, a bit like Paddo and his broken record.

Some wise words MR.

[Paddo Colt 61]

If a poster is clearly running an MSM line I call them Sheeple. The epithet is not addressed to everyone else but me. Australians have subscribed to other people's long and far away wars apathetically after a short bust of naive and often sentimental emotion wrought by the MSM. I don't think that every poster on here deserves the title but those who shut their minds to alternative narratives, certainly do.

I do keep on, more or less, saying similar things. It's the educator coming out (have I mentioned that I was part of the profession?). It has to do with the uncertainty that a student has understood a difficult concept or one that is unpalatable because of conditioning and the pedagogical term is reinforcement. Things need to be repeated - a point usually does not dawn on the listener immediately. I run variations on a theme, anyway, rather than straight out proselytising - in other words I keep adding to the point with further evidence.

I do not and never have said that dictatorship is a preference or even an alternative. Fascist dictatorships are anathema though they are often installed and supported by the US. China, however. is not a dictatorship, it has a democratic core - members of the assembly are voted for, and come from, the 90 million members of the CCP and I've gone into that in previous discussions. The Chinese masses, far from enduring a living Hell as H&J would have it, are happy with their form of government to the tune of 96% (Harvard University).

[Paddo Colt 61]

And here a piece from the Financial review by a former Australian ambassador to China. King reckons that he's a Commo. The US is clearly a war mongering basket case and some nongs on here are still refusing to accept the fact.

https://johnmenadue.com/why-a-differ...-already-here/

[mightyrooster]

Well good to know I'm not a complete sheeple (not sure what the singular form of that word is) as I try to keep an open mind on most things. You need to also consider Paddo that not everyone is going to agree with you no matter how many times you try to reinforce your message.

[ism22]

With ism's images though it was amusing at first but I just find they've lost their effectiveness now, a bit like Paddo and his broken record.

Fair point. I'm gradually rolling them back as I think that enough's been said. Also I'm currently in Vietnam for a funeral so haven't had time to post all that much.

Agreed that posting pro-dictatoriship propaganda on here's hardly gonna brainwash the next generation of innocent children. We are not 'sheeple'... we are mostly of average intelligence or thereabouts and can make up our own choices.

Where I draw the line is that I don't think Paddo has any coherent points about the US/media. While there is a thin veil of reasoning along the lines of 'Murdoch spreads a lot of misinformation' and 'don't trust everything you hear coming outta US politics', I think this is so far detached from his conclusions that there's no substantive argument being made to support his delusional, smooth-brained agenda.

[Mickie Lane]

I love China because they introduced us to fried rice & Ive been eating heaps of it in the Philippines following my 8 dental implants Ive had inserted in my mouth.
My tip look after your teeth & dont take drugs.
Okay big dog Kenty in rainbow pants come in with your reply.
Its funny though even though its cost me a motza in the Philippines 25k I still dont have have any regrets about my past. It is what it is.

[Andrew Walker]

Oh dear It appears from isms latest rant he has had a heavy session on the craft beers as well as the limoncellos

[mightyrooster]

Fair point. I'm gradually rolling them back as I think that enough's been said. Also I'm currently in Vietnam for a funeral so haven't had time to post all that much.

Agreed that posting pro-dictatoriship propaganda on here's hardly gonna brainwash the next generation of innocent children. We are not 'sheeple'... we are mostly of average intelligence or thereabouts and can make up our own choices.

Where I draw the line is that I don't think Paddo has any coherent points about the US/media. While there is a thin veil of reasoning along the lines of 'Murdoch spreads a lot of misinformation' and 'don't trust everything you hear coming outta US politics', I think this is so far detached from his conclusions that there's no substantive argument being made to support his delusional, smooth-brained agenda.

Look I know you out of all of us spent the most time and effort debating the issue so I get your frustration and eventual resorting to the images. Hope everything with the funeral went as well as can be expected..

[King Salvo]

Red Sheepie Comrade Paddo says running a MSM line is sheepie like but posting the swirls and deviations link to the same bollock articles saying the same things ad nauseum from his brainwasher Menadue's site isn't - mmm

Oh now it's his former chalky side coming out in why he is using the so called rope method of "educating" us by posting the same things ad nauseum and nothing to do with how commo regimes brainwash their citizens the same way by repeating the same messages ad nauseum.

Of course as was the case in the Soviet Union anyone running for office has to be approved and vetted by the Communist Party to be a "candidate" - "Elections" are only held at the Local Level and never at the National Level the same as the Soviet Union.

As was the case in the Soviet Union. come election day when folk vote in these so called local Chinese "elections" there is only one "candidate" vetted and approved by the CCP Chinese Government to vote for so hardly a sign of any smidgeon of a democratic core you say exists in China.

Next you will be telling us that China has a free press and freedom of speech and association and the daily lives of all Chinese folk are not controlled by the CCP Chinese Government.

We have been over that survey result many times - again - It was a survey of 32,000 respondents over 15 years which was conducted by a CCP Chinese Government vetted and approved Chinese research and polling company.

Hardly a reliable survey when the so called 32, 000 respondents would have been vetted and approved by the CCP Chinese Government to participate.

Look at the Chinese internet which is controlled and regulated by the CCP Chinese Government via The Great Firewall as they call it that blocks Internet access to foreign websites for a variety of reasons

Some of these reasons behind the Internet censorship in China include:

• Social control: the Internet is a means for freedom of speech, and dissemination of campaigns could lead to protests against the government.
• Sensitive content: to control information about the government in China.
• Economic protectionism: China prefers the use of local companies that are regulated by Chinese regulations, since they have more power over them,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...%20behind%20th e%20Internet,about%20the%20government%20in%20China .

As you may have written on your students report card -Red Sheepie Comrade Paddo tries hard but is way too focused on fictional events and stories and portraying them as factual.

[ism22]

Look I know you out of all of us spent the most time and effort debating the issue so I get your frustration and eventual resorting to the images. Hope everything with the funeral went as well as can be expected..

Thanks for that - I guess that I've now tried it as a tactic and as you say, it's hit a point where the pictures need a rest.

Re the funeral, we are home safely now. As a bit of a summary it was a pretty tiring/laborious process as we basically got off a plane, slept for a few hours and then got up at 5am every day for a full schedule of funeral activities. However, every time I do this stuff I love Vietnam & our family over there a lot more.

Will try not to bore you with all the details but I'm from a small family with a single mum. There's a certain grandiosity in attending a 98 year old, Vietnamese grandfather's funeral. I say the proceedings were tiring... but how else do you honour a person whose eyes woulda seen so much? I'm a strictly raised wog who went to sandstone boys private schools where emotions were always suppressed. However, I was crying the whole way through this. It wasn't about him... it was about the fact that his family had 9 kids (some of whom passed before him) and there's just so many stories about it all. I felt honoured that in EVERY speech/chant there was a tiny little mention that I'm now considered one of his grandsons. It's special and no words can describe the pleasure that I gained from visiting his house at 5am every day, breaking bread with all the friends/family (he was a teacher so had lotsa students attending) and being there for my Vietnamese dad.

So yeah... great trip! Ironically this one's probably best summarised in photos. However, I'll remain private. All I can say here is that it's crazy how far my (limited) thinking has come since marrying my current wife a little more than a decade ago. Throw out all the textbooks and degrees, I feel like one of the best ways to learn about other countries is through relationships. As a bit of an early financial new year's resolution, I think I'm gonna try my best to further the relationships that I've got. I'm personally very glad that following all the COVID lockdowns I (at first reluctantly) went to Vietnam for the lunar new year and broke bread with my Vietnamese grandpa on multiple occasions. Before then I didn't have a lot of positive things to say about Vietnam and nor did my wife (broadly speaking, we take a lot of luxuries for granted in Australia). Glad we both turned that corner before it was too late and very much look forward to my next visit. Though, my next trip's to Japan for my daughter's summer holidays. Bring it on!!!