Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[ism22]

Another fact about China - it classifies running a pro-democracy newspaper and attending pro-democracy protests (both in Hong Kong, not China) as a 'national security' crimes.

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Mr Lai, the founder of Hong Kong's most popular pro-democracy newspaper Apple Daily, was arrested at his home in August 2020 on suspicion of "collusion with foreign forces" and conspiracy to commit fraud.

He will face trial today on the national security charge, but already Mr Lai, who also holds UK nationality, has been sentenced to 20 months in jail over his participation in pro-democracy protests in 2019.

On Saturday, Mr Lai also faced trial over business fraud allegations and was sentenced to five years and nine months in prison.

This week his trial will be keenly watched by observers since it will determine whether Mr Lai will spend the rest of his life in jail.

It is also regarded as a fresh test of Hong Kong's two-year-old national security law, which had been brought in by Beijing and outlawed secessionist activities as well as "foreign collusion".

To date, the billionaire media mogul is the most high-profile figure to be arrested under the law.

...

They also arrested five senior editorial staff at their homes and froze the company's assets worth 18 million Hong Kong dollars ($3.4 million).

The company was left with no otherchoice but to shut down.

In the eyes of Beijing, Mr Lai and his 26-year-old newspaper presented a great enough threat to its powerthat a huge police force and a new security law were required to take him down.

Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-...week/101754544

[Paddo Colt 61]

The demise of the sensationalist Apple Daily tabloid and its owner Jimmy Lai did of course generate lots of hot air from the usual crowd of politicians and media bemoaning the end of press freedom in Hong Kong. Again, this has not proved to be the case, there are still a good number of publications that are happily critical of the government and furthermore Hong Kong continues to have free and unfettered access to the complete Internet and global news media. And of course in that very media we can read how Julian Assange is locked up in UK’s Belmarsh Super Jail and will before long be extradited to the US, or how 37 prisoners remain rotting in the US’s Guantanamo Bay. And as the west grope with their own challenges, we increasingly hear that freedom of speech is not an absolute right. Double standards at play here

Actually the people I feel most sorry for are those youngsters who were encouraged by both HK and western voices to go out, throw firebombs, trash the MTR and universities and generally go on an orgy of violence, which of course was blamed on the police. These youngsters, often university students, are steadily being brought before the courts, more often than not pleading guilty in the face of undeniable evidence and heading off to the delights of HK’s correctional services facilities aka. prisons, while most of those who encouraged them are sitting comfortably at home having never gotten their hands dirty. These folks should be ashamed of themselves.

[Random Rooster]

Actually the people I feel most sorry for are those youngsters who were encouraged by both HK and western voices to go out, throw firebombs, trash the MTR and universities and generally go on an orgy of violence, which of course was blamed on the police. These youngsters, often university students, are steadily being brought before the courts, more often than not pleading guilty in the face of undeniable evidence and heading off to the delights of HK’s correctional services facilities aka. prisons, while most of those who encouraged them are sitting comfortably at home having never gotten their hands dirty. These folks should be ashamed of themselves.

Hong Kong and western voices hey!! It is possible that they hear these voices in their heads through some form of subliminal messaging?


You are not kidding anyone when you say that you feel sorry for these students. You believe that groups who do not align with your extreme right views should pay a heavy price, just as the governments they are protesting against do.

[Paddo Colt 61]

A mind reader now Randy?

* The "Western" voices are on those one might hear on the free and unfettered access to the complete Internet and global news media.
* As I've said in the past, I have no sympathy for vandals but for dupes of Western propaganda, I do feel some.
* The Anglo world is exposed to unrelenting crass anti Chinese propaganda designed, essentially, for war mongering. That is plain to everybody even devotees of reality TV and, thankfully, our Government is trying to walk us back from the direction in which the last lot of Right Wing religious nutters was taking us. You don't seem to be joining in that very sensible retreat. Must be a Sky guy.

[Random Rooster]

A mind reader now Randy?

* The "Western" voices are on those one might hear on the free and unfettered access to the complete Internet and global news media.
* As I've said in the past, I have no sympathy for vandals but for dupes of Western propaganda, I do feel some.
* The Anglo world is exposed to unrelenting crass anti Chinese propaganda designed, essentially, for war mongering. That is plain to everybody even devotees of reality TV and, thankfully, our Government is trying to walk us back from the direction in which the last lot of Right Wing religious nutters was taking us. You don't seem to be joining in that very sensible retreat. Must be a Sky guy.

Written and spoken by Tucker Carlson!

[King Salvo]

The demise of the sensationalist Apple Daily tabloid and its owner Jimmy Lai did of course generate lots of hot air from the usual crowd of politicians and media bemoaning the end of press freedom in Hong Kong. Again, this has not proved to be the case, there are still a good number of publications that are happily critical of the government and furthermore Hong Kong continues to have free and unfettered access to the complete Internet and global news media. And of course in that very media we can read how Julian Assange is locked up in UK’s Belmarsh Super Jail and will before long be extradited to the US, or how 37 prisoners remain rotting in the US’s Guantanamo Bay. And as the west grope with their own challenges, we increasingly hear that freedom of speech is not an absolute right. Double standards at play here

Actually the people I feel most sorry for are those youngsters who were encouraged by both HK and western voices to go out, throw firebombs, trash the MTR and universities and generally go on an orgy of violence, which of course was blamed on the police. These youngsters, often university students, are steadily being brought before the courts, more often than not pleading guilty in the face of undeniable evidence and heading off to the delights of HK’s correctional services facilities aka. prisons, while most of those who encouraged them are sitting comfortably at home having never gotten their hands dirty. These folks should be ashamed of themselves.

Ah yes the whadabout the west reply - there were 780 detainees at one time in Guantanamo Bay and now down to 37 so the wheels of justice are moving unlike of course in the prison systems under your beloved commie regimes were 100's millions were interned and 10's of millions died and which is still happening by the way.

That's nonsense to say any time there is some protest in these commie countries that it's the west encouraging it- what about the students protesting because they want to and no one is telling them or encouraging them to at all.

You bang on about the Western Media and how only sheepies follow it and believe it but you have definitely been brainwashed by the propaganda that came/comes out of your beloved Commie countries and Russia though

The Evil Eight and the cause of 100's of millions of deaths and pain and suffering for many more and you still don't recognise what an evil ideology and system Communism was and is.

[King Salvo]

Hong Kong and western voices hey!! It is possible that they hear these voices in their heads through some form of subliminal messaging?


You are not kidding anyone when you say that you feel sorry for these students. You believe that groups who do not align with your extreme right views should pay a heavy price, just as the governments they are protesting against do.

Comrade Paddo is definitely left or far left wing- Not sure if Maoist /Stalinist/Lenin Marxist/II-Sungist - perhaps Castroist /Chi-Minhist / Potist ?

They all hated the West and Capitalism which he does as well.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Hey! That looks suspiciously like my T-shirt wardrobe King. Not snowdropping are we?

[A Country Member]

Speaking of Guantanamo Bay, where is it again? Florida?

[ism22]

The demise of the sensationalist Apple Daily tabloid and its owner Jimmy Lai did of course generate lots of hot air from the usual crowd of politicians and media bemoaning the end of press freedom in Hong Kong. Again, this has not proved to be the case, there are still a good number of publications that are happily critical of the government and furthermore Hong Kong continues to have free and unfettered access to the complete Internet and global news media. And of course in that very media we can read how Julian Assange is locked up in UK’s Belmarsh Super Jail and will before long be extradited to the US, or how 37 prisoners remain rotting in the US’s Guantanamo Bay. And as the west grope with their own challenges, we increasingly hear that freedom of speech is not an absolute right. Double standards at play here

Actually the people I feel most sorry for are those youngsters who were encouraged by both HK and western voices to go out, throw firebombs, trash the MTR and universities and generally go on an orgy of violence, which of course was blamed on the police. These youngsters, often university students, are steadily being brought before the courts, more often than not pleading guilty in the face of undeniable evidence and heading off to the delights of HK’s correctional services facilities aka. prisons, while most of those who encouraged them are sitting comfortably at home having never gotten their hands dirty. These folks should be ashamed of themselves.

Your extreme-right view is that China's gonna take over the world and those who dare oppose authoritarianism are misguided are fools. However, you provide no logical reasoning to back this up and no solid rationale for why a bunch of developed democracies would want to dump each other in favour of a dictatorship that hates them.

Your heroes are anarchists, in two misfits that linked up with Russian spies in order to boost their public profiles. Oh and a guy who went over to fight for the Taliban. The one thing that can be said for all 3 is that western media outlets have actively given their side of the story and many support them.

From your perspective...
- Stealing a hard disk while working as a security guard for a national security agency (then actively giving it to Russia as part of a pre-arranged deal) is not a national security crime or a breach of your security clearance.

- Hacking a defence system by persuading a defence force employee with some clear issues going on to steal classified data, posting an edited version of it online to hide the innocent context and then collaborating with Russia in an attempt to avoid prosecution is not a national security crime. This is all 'trustworthy news' too (your #1 source)... even though we know it was intentionally doctored. Makes sense.

- Joining a terrorist organisation and firing live rounds against Australia's allies is in no way a national security crime.

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But...

- Running a pro-democracy newspaper in a country that's next to China is a 'national security' crime.

- Protesting against a dictatorship is a 'national security' crime.

- Being ethnic Kyrgyz who practice islamic culture/tradition in 'China' (aka a neighbouring country that Mao annexed) is a 'national security' crime.

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You've got your wires crossed, dude!

[Paddo Colt 61]

First, Apple Daily was a militantly pro Western newspaper with links to US Intelligence. let’s look at the numbers which are being omitted in reports about its closing.

*Apple Daily printed 86,000 copies a day, which meant that 98.5 PER CENT of Hong Kong’s 6,500,000 adults did NOT buy it with their breakfast noodles.

* The Western media is reporting that it was “Hong Kong’s biggest newspaper”. No. Not remotely true. Hong Kong’s most popular newspaper is free tabloid Headline Daily (1,012,000 a day, or more than ten times Apple’s circulation), and in the paid broadsheet category, leaders include Oriental Daily News (530,000 a day), and Sing Tao Daily (253,000 a day). HK01, in particular, has come from nowhere to dominate the local media scene. Lively, up-to-the-minute and often critical of the government, its existence and popularity gives the lie to the “press freedom is dead” trope of the Western media, and is the big story in media that foreign correspondents have all missed.
* Apple Daily was not closed down by the Hong Kong government, but by its own board, comprising local people hostile to China, plus Americans. So why did they close their own paper? As a PR coup, because they were absolutely confident that the international media, which means the Western media, would not tell the real story, but one which fits their anti-China narrative.
*Apple Daily’s stunning lack of popularity among the good, honest, people of Hong Kong, was only eclipsed by its stunning lack of popularity among advertisers. The group has been losing more than HK$1 million a day, yes, A DAY, (which is more than US$1 million a week), amounting to several billion Hong Kong dollars over the past few years.
*The paper clearly did not function commercially as a media company, so any healthily skeptical person would ask themselves: what was it for?

[ism22]

First, Apple Daily was a militantly pro Western newspaper with links to US Intelligence. let’s look at the numbers which are being omitted in reports about its closing.

*Apple Daily printed 86,000 copies a day, which meant that 98.5 PER CENT of Hong Kong’s 6,500,000 adults did NOT buy it with their breakfast noodles.

* The Western media is reporting that it was “Hong Kong’s biggest newspaper”. No. Not remotely true. Hong Kong’s most popular newspaper is free tabloid Headline Daily (1,012,000 a day, or more than ten times Apple’s circulation), and in the paid broadsheet category, leaders include Oriental Daily News (530,000 a day), and Sing Tao Daily (253,000 a day). HK01, in particular, has come from nowhere to dominate the local media scene. Lively, up-to-the-minute and often critical of the government, its existence and popularity gives the lie to the “press freedom is dead” trope of the Western media, and is the big story in media that foreign correspondents have all missed.
* Apple Daily was not closed down by the Hong Kong government, but by its own board, comprising local people hostile to China, plus Americans. So why did they close their own paper? As a PR coup, because they were absolutely confident that the international media, which means the Western media, would not tell the real story, but one which fits their anti-China narrative.
*Apple Daily’s stunning lack of popularity among the good, honest, people of Hong Kong, was only eclipsed by its stunning lack of popularity among advertisers. The group has been losing more than HK$1 million a day, yes, A DAY, (which is more than US$1 million a week), amounting to several billion Hong Kong dollars over the past few years.
*The paper clearly did not function commercially as a media company, so any healthily skeptical person would ask themselves: what was it for?

John Menadue [dot] com is an anti-western opinions website and many of the columnists have links to Russian/Saudi/Chinese intelligence agencies (that or cheap cash for comment bollocks). It's not very popular and is seen as being a niche blog for the alt-right and anarchists amongst us (like you).

Are you suggesting that you wouldn't complain if John Menadue was locked up and the site was taken down on 'national security' grounds?

(Which is a bit of a redundant question because if Australia behaved like that, you probably wouldn't be able to complain without getting locked up).

[ism22]

I know Paeddo will probably do a Donald Trump and cry 'fake news' but some more facts we should probably get straight about China (the edgy kinda stuff that you won't find on the blog of some bitter ex-mandarin who wishes he was still relevant)...

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China has removed six officials from the UK who police wanted to question over the treatment of a man who said he was kicked and punched while protesting outside the Chinese consulate in Manchester, British foreign minister James Cleverly said.

Mr Cleverly said the removal of the officials, including the consul general in Manchester, came after a police request to interview them over the incident.

"I am disappointed that these individuals will not be interviewed or face justice," Mr Cleverly said in a written statement.

"Nonetheless, it is right that those responsible for the disgraceful scenes in Manchester are no longer – or will shortly cease to be - consular staff accredited to the UK."

The Chinese embassy hit back, saying the UK had failed to protect its staff, adding it launched its own representations with the country over the incident.

It said the consul general had returned to China under a "normal rotation of Chinese consular officials".

Police had been investigating the alleged assault on a protester who was beaten by several men after being dragged inside the grounds of the consulate in northwest England during a demonstration against President Xi Jinping.

"Images carried on social media showed what appeared to be completely unacceptable behaviour by a number of individuals near the entrance to the consular premises," said Mr Cleverly, who summoned the acting ambassador over the incident.

Source: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...ator/6tawifz2u

[ism22]

Note the above gives all angles...

1. UK police wanted to question 6 people. We know for fact that shortly after the alleged assault, all 6 were sent back to China.

2. China tell us nothing happened, the UK shoulda protected its staff from angry protestors and the fact that all 6 have been returned has nothing to do with the allegations that have been made against them or the request for them to be interviewed by police.

3. Social media has some videos if you wanna see for yourself.
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But no. All 'MSM' is cooked... heavily biased alt-right anarchist blogs are what we should rely on

[King Salvo]

As usual Comrade Paddo leaves out a few rather important facts and points plus provides us with his usual anti west and pro commie ideology and regime spin in his posts

Interesting that he claims Apple Daily was a militantly pro-west publication with links to US Intelligence ( mmm I was wondering how he would link the US to his "story" ) - maybe they meet at a local McDonald's/ KFC or even Burger King perhaps" and that " Apple Daily was not closed down by the Hong Kong government, but by its own board" - 100% incorrect

Apple Daily had an online subscription of 4.7 million subscribers so hardly a small readership

Sing Tao Daily - Chairman Charles Ho and his predecessor Sally Aw are both members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, a select group of the Chinese Communist Party’s loyal friends and allies

Oriental Daily News - Pro-Beijing Publication

HK01 -Owner - Yu Pun Hoi a Pro-Beijing Businessman

The company maintains a black-list containing pro-independence parties and groups in Hong Kong whose events it will not attend, with whom it will not form partnerships, and from whom it will accept advertising.

The National Security law has ensured that freedom of the press no longer exists in Hong Kong.

The Facts

Apple Daily's editorial position favoring the pro - democracy movement in Hong Kong made it a subject of advertising boycotts and political pressure.

On the same day Mr Lai was arrested in 2020, his newspaper offices were raided by 200 police officers. They spent eight hours in Apple Daily's building, searching journalists' desks and taking away computers and documents.

Lai is currently in prison on numerous trumped up charges - participation in pro-democracy protests / Collusion with Foreign Forces and Conspiracy to commit fraud - His Collusion with Foreign forces court case has been delayed as Hong Kong under Beijing's direction have denied a visa extension for his British lawyer Tim Owen KC - Beijing allowed Hong King to maintain it's Common Law System

Lai has UK Citizenship - China does not recognise dual citizenship

After the controversial Hong Kong national security law was enacted, 500 police raided its headquarters a second time on 10 August 2020, a police operation criticized by democratic governments and press rights groups around the world

The new legislation targets what authorities in mainland China define as secession, subversion, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces. Those violating the law could face up to life in prison.

Hong Kong police today raided the office of independent newspaper Apple Daily, arrested five senior executives including editor-in chief Ryan Law, and froze Apple Daily assets.

At around 7:30am local time on 17 June 2021 , some 500 police arrived at the pro-democracy newspaper’s headquarters. Apple Daily is accused of violating Article 29 of the National Security Law (NSL) in relation to some 30 English and Chinese language articles published online and in print since 2019. Police say the articles are evidence of a foreign conspiracy to advocate for sanctions against China and Hong Kong.

Police also warned readers against reposting the content online. The warrant, issued under the NSL, authorized police to ‘search and seize journalistic material’, including computers.

Seperately, police arrested five senior executives at their homes on suspicion of ‘collusion with a foreign country or with external elements to endanger national security’.

Police also froze HKD 18 million (USD 2.3 million) in Apple Daily and subsidiary assets. Apple Daily founder, 73-year old Jimmy Lai, was also informed on Tuesday that he will stand trial in July for violating the NSL by colluding with foreign forces.

If convicted, he faces up to life in prison. In April, Lai was sentenced to 14 months in prison for taking part in pro-democracy demonstrations in 2019.

Beijing imposed the National Security Law on the erstwhile self-governing territory on 30 June 2020, despite widespread opposition from Hong Kong civil society and international human rights experts. In September 2020, seven UN Human Rights Special Procedures issued a joint communication calling the NSL particularly troubling for the risks it posed to fundamental rights.

As a result of the asset freeze, Apple Daily was unable to pay wages and electricity bills, and had to cease operations.

The final print edition was published on 24 June 2021, with over a million copies being printed, up from the usual 80,000, and the newspaper's supporters lined up in queues stretching hundreds of meters in order to buy them.

The newspaper's main and supplementary You Tube channel, "Fruit Seed", was also shut down at midnight on the same day.