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I said that I wasn't gonna do his no more - this is the last time!
* The editor/consiglieri was a former US Intelligence employee.
* Those mastheads were/are the most popular in the HK market. Communist linked? So what? Still most popular! The MSM never mention the popular regard for the Motherland that exists in both HK and Taiwan. The recent presidential election showed clearly that the majority are pro China and not, as you would have it, cringing under the yoke of oppression and yearning for freedom.
* Many individuals and companies have proscribed the dissidents. The riots saw a lawless orgy of violence and destruction. Citizens were shocked by the degree of anti social behaviour on display.. The Courts which are British model and independent like ours are have rightly dealt harshly with the more serious offenders as would happen here too - poor ol' Violet Coco. Not too mention disruptors like Assange and Bernard Collaery.
* Apple Daily was a classic US disinformation and propaganda enterprise and not the first, nor will it be the last, to fail.Comment
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If you guys want to know what it is like living under the National Security Law in Hong Kong I can tell you it is not good.Comment
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Paddo's brain...Originally posted by Paddo Colt 61 View Post
Scenario 1
- Dude coerces a bitter ex-soldier (gender identity issues, regularly bullied for being effeminate and suffering mental health challenges - identified as an easy target by Russian intelligence agencies) to steal files from a military system. He then doctors them to tell a #FakeNews story, cooks up a plan with Russian intelligence agencies to do a Snowden-style escape to Russia, hides out in the Ecuadorian embassy until a Swedish rape charge expires and ends up in prison while awaiting the outcome of his gazillionth appeal (on emotional grounds having failed on the substantive reasoning) because he's deemed a flight risk.
- The western 'MSM' are largely supportive of this guy, cobble together a mickey mouse 'journalism' award for him and heavily criticise the government bodies involved without any repercussions because... boo booom... freedom of the press is real!
- The guy's 'media' outlet continues to operate to this day (note: it is funded by Russian intelligence agencies and regularly dumps classified documents they have stolen from the west in a highly selective manner... um... yeah... not Russian/Chinese secret documents).
Paddo: The above is the absolute pits and demonstrates that 'the west' is far worse than China and Russia!!! He is the world's best journalist and has been taken down for telling the truth!!!
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Scenario 2
- Country imposes a blanket ban on discussing what is widely accepted to have been the massacre of pro-democracy protesters by the military.
- Country puts up a firewall that blocks all foreign media and websites that it does not deem appropriate as they oppose the government or its stance on social issues.
- Said country imposes a 'national security' law on a neighbouring democracy with a separate government, currency and book of laws.
- Following the enactment of the said law, it's applied to a major news outlet that is not aligned with its political opinions. 500 military police storm the head office... 500!!!... the owner is put in prison indefinitely (for breaching its newly enacted laws) and it goes outta business because it's been banned from operating.
Paddo: This is the face of freedom!!! All mainstream news sources are flat out lying to you about every single element as part of a global conspiracy!!! You can only trust a niche blog that is run by an Whitlam-era mandarin, or a website that selectively leaks US classified documents in an attempt to get you to oppose the US' systems of governance and/or vote for Donald Trump. Wake up, you're all sheeple!!!Last edited by ism22; 12-15-2022, 07:56 PM.Comment
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mmm where does one startOriginally posted by Paddo Colt 61 View Post
The editor is what a member of the mafia and US Intel service - Did you read that in the Peoples Daily , Pravda or TASS or some obscure anti west site you frequent - ah yes the Peoples Daily , Pravda /TASS all "reputable" sources - of Government Propaganda that is whether in China / Soviet Union or in Russia
The majority are not pro-China at all in Hong Kong or Taiwan - they may share similar cultures but certainly have no love of the PRC Communist Political system or Communist Government at all - more Taiwan folk identify themselves as Taiwanese rather than Chinese for instance
Hong Kong
The Chief Executive and Executive Council appointments require approval from the Chinese Communist Government for starters.
The so called two tier government system is only valid for 50 years i.e from 1997 to 2047- One Doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what will happen after 2047 as it is already happening now and has been happening for some time even before the National Security Laws were enacted.
Hong Kong folk have for many years identified themselves as HongKongers and not Chinese a trend that is growing especially with young people - 76 per cent of young people polled identify as ‘Hongkongers’, while only 2 per cent think of themselves as ‘Chinese’
https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/new...gkongers-while
Taiwan
Taiwan people overwhelmingly reject unification with the PRC - In our survey, 63% of respondents had a negative view of the PRC government; only 8% had a positive view.
Our respondents not only disliked the PRC government. They also believed it was a negative force in their own society in Taiwan: 66% rated the PRC’s influence on Taiwan as somewhat or very negative. Less than 10% saw a positive impact.
Isn't Brookings one of your prime sources when quoting China
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...-just-culture/
Ah yes the Taiwanese left and Hongkongers right don't share your enduring love of China and it's evil Communist Ideology and Systems or in your words the Motherland
Last edited by King Salvo; 12-16-2022, 03:27 PM.Comment
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A dude around the corner for me worked as a musician in Shanghai for ~30 years (at massive international hotels... has played alongside a stack of a-list celebrities). He speaks fluent Mandarin and his wife's... wait... Taiwanese.Originally posted by King Salvo View Post
mmm where does one start
The editor is what a member of the mafia and US Intel service - Did you read that in the Peoples Daily , Pravda or TASS or some obscure anti west site you frequent - ah yes the Peoples Daily , Pravda /TASS all "reputable" sources - of Government Propaganda that is whether in China / Soviet Union or in Russia
The majority are not pro-China at all in Hong Kong or Taiwan - they may share similar cultures but certainly have no love of the PRC Communist Political system or Communist Government at all - more Taiwan folk identify themselves as Taiwanese rather than Chinese for instance
Hong Kong
The Chief Executive and Executive Council appointments require approval from the Chinese Communist Government for starters.
The so called two tier government system is only valid for 50 years i.e from 1907 to 2047- One Doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what will happen after 2047 as it is already happening now and has been happening for some time even before the National Security Laws were enacted.
Hong Kong folk have for many years identified themselves as HongKongers and not Chinese a trend that is growing especially with young people - 76 per cent of young people polled identify as ‘Hongkongers’, while only 2 per cent think of themselves as ‘Chinese’
https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/new...gkongers-while
Taiwan
Taiwan people overwhelmingly reject unification with the PRC - In our survey, 63% of respondents had a negative view of the PRC government; only 8% had a positive view.
Our respondents not only disliked the PRC government. They also believed it was a negative force in their own society in Taiwan: 66% rated the PRC’s influence on Taiwan as somewhat or very negative. Less than 10% saw a positive impact.
Isn't Brookings one of your prime sources when quoting China
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...-just-culture/
Ah yes the Taiwanese left and Hongkongers right don't share your enduring love of China and it's evil Communist Ideology and Systems or in your words the Motherland
They left Shanghai and moved to Taiwan because the vibe changed under Jinping... Taiwanese were no longer welcome in China and could easily be arrested for identifying as Taiwanese (which is stupid because they speak a different language and their country has a different leader/currency/passport...etc so it's not exactly easy to just 'hide' this).
Eventually they moved back to his birth country (Australia) because China's making it really unpleasant for Taiwan and the work's all dried up.
As noted... when I go to Japan, Chinese people (as in 'Chinese'... they live in China but are temporarily in Japan doing some work to earn for their families) will call Taiwanese people 'Taiwanese', they're all friendly about it, they use the Japanese words for 'Taiwanese-Language' and 'Taiwanese-Citizen' quite freely. There's no conflict or grey area about it when you talk to real people. It's when you ask Jinping (aka an expansionary dictator) that there's a lack of acceptance with regards to Taiwan's sovereignty.
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IMO Paddo really doesn't understand the history, cultures or geopolitics. He's a grumpy anarchist who thinks he's opened his world to a web of deep western deception and conspiracies by smoking a fat bong while reading a blog run by a guy whose major claim to fame is being Whitlam's old chief of staff (by absolute fluke in days where they only had 2-3 staff, and then being 'unsackable' as he got parachuted into a cushy government job for his role in shutting up about what was going on behind the scenes while Fraser controversially ousted Whitlam). The guy's a pawn and a simp who wishes he was relevant rather than a complete embarrassment with NFI about today's geopolitical landscape.Comment
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You are wrong about the language differences. Mandarin is the main dialect in both Taiwan and Mainland China. There is a slight difference in the dialect and Taiwanese also mix in a little indigenous Taiwanese language with their Mandarin. Here in Hong Kong we refer to it as Putonghua. The term Mandarin is actually politically insensitive. A lot of people actually go to Taiwan to study Mandarin.Originally posted by ism22 View PostComment
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[QUOTE=Dr. Voodoo Man; If you guys want to know what it is like living under the National Security Law in Hong Kong I can tell you it is not good.
Could you please elaborate Voods? An ordinary HK working fella - how does National Security Law affect him? Is "living under" a little strong suggesting as it does a general oppression?
Keep in mind that we "live under" what is probably the most draconian security legislation in the World. Those charged are not allowed to know with what they are charged. No bail. No jury. Would be hard to beat that - just the word of the spooks.
From your post at #97 it would seem that Izzy is just blathering again. And it appears that he has yet another mate with first hand experience of persecution - they're everywhere in his world - fisher folk, High ranking Communist leaders who love the US, Immigrants who've never been to Tiananmen but who know exactly what happened there except that it didn't. Where does he get time for work and play?
John Menadue's credentials are impeccable by comparison. Google him before you start believing the ol' craft beer swiller's claptrap..
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A general oppression would be a good way to describe it. Many Hong Kongers feel a sense of hopelessness. But it is also an extremely complex issue. In 2007 when I moved to Hong Kong it was largely not an issue for the general population. Resentment towards the Mainland grew and grew. The current situation really sprang from the Occupy Protests some years back. It eventually morphed into what everyone witnessed with the riots and National Security Law being implemented.
A few points worth noting;
- Was the CIA involved? Of course they were. Intelligence from many countries played a hand in this mess.
- Hong Kong is China. That is an undisputed fact.
- Hong Kong never had democracy under the British. Hong Kong was a British Colony with Governors being appointed.
- Once the riots got bad, China began to react badly themselves.
- Now nobody dares say a word. People are scared. They were punished for playing songs, holding blank pieces of paper, mourning Queen Elizabeth II
- The Government/Mainland organised triads (gangsters) to physically attack local people.
- The whole situation descended into absolute chaos and in my opinion there was a lot of bad actors on both sides
I could tell you a lot more, stuff that happened around me and with people I know. Let me leave you with this thought - A few weeks ago when the former president died I was ordered to lead a group of students in 3 minutes of silent mourning. I refused, very loudly and insisted I would not mourn for a dead communist. I was the only one who spoke up and I can tell you it made people around me worried. My opinion, Hong Kong is finished. It is now just another large Chinese city. It is not a place where one can freely express themselves.Last edited by Dr. Voodoo Man; 12-16-2022, 05:20 PM.Comment
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Okay but I fail to see an impact on the hoi poloi apart from being caught up in the riotous behaviour? Unfortunately, your unusually strident anti Communism makes you an unreliable source. Where did that come from? Religious background? Years of MSM misinformation? Who would know that the government hired Triads? Did you know these people who played songs, held up blank paper and mourned QE2 (how would one do that anyway and why?) And your own beau geste doesn't seem to have brought repercussions - no knock on the door at midnight?
I get different impressions from Henry Litton CBE, a retired judge of the HK Court of Final Appeal (an English judge who sat in a transplanted independent English Common Law Court system.
Litton said recently:
"The announcement in May ( of new security laws) was against the background of extreme violence lasting many months in the streets of Hong Kong, to the terror of the general population.
Parts of Hong Kong resembled war-zones, with the police under constant attack. Loss to the ordinary citizen and to the Region measured in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
The police force was over-stretched, the justice system overwhelmed. By October last year, after months of turmoil, thousands of arrests had been made but only a handful of persons had been charged and brought to court for trial. An attempt by the Chief Executive to assist the police in identifying culprits, by promulgating a law forbidding face-covering in public gatherings, was knocked back by the High Court. (Jeez, the HC was taking a risk not allowing the Commies to have their way especially when it is just a mouthpiece).
The declared aim of the rioters was to destroy the police force and bring down the Hong Kong administration. There was firm evidence that external hostile forces were behind the movement, fuelling and funding the rioters.
Hong Kong had ( and still has ) in its statute book national security laws left over from the colonial era. But these were totally inadequate to deal with the situation.
The announcement made by the Standing Committee in May noted ( with remarkable restraint ) that national security risk in the Hong Kong SAR had “become a prominent problem”.
Seeing that the Regional government was incapable of dealing with the dire situation, failing to protect the lives and livelihood of the ordinary citizen, what was the Central Government to do?Last edited by Paddo Colt 61; 12-16-2022, 06:08 PM.Comment
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Bud, I was trying to be nice to you. Was that necessary?Originally posted by Paddo Colt 61 View PostComment
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Just trying to determine "truth" Voods and you do seem to be somewhat influenced by the Western media that operates freely in HK. Unfortunately, when MSM comes into the equation truth goes out the window. How do you explain Henry Litton's much different take on the matter? Commie stooge? Not likely, he's a Commander of the British Empire (CBE).
Some "journalist" on The ABC (Yes our most trusted media platform) recently called HK a "police state" - pure emotional hyperbolic claptrap and people believe it. To not see HK and Taiwan as anti China propaganda weapons is to deny the bleedin' obvious.
I don't much care for making nice and this is a political discussion, "nice" shouldn't come into it. I was hoping to hear a more objective view from one on the ground but, although not anywhere near the league of Heckle and Jeckle, there was bias and sadly, it's a bias shared by most people which doesn't make it right, more a comment on them and their apathy and lack of interest.Last edited by Paddo Colt 61; 12-16-2022, 08:38 PM.Comment
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Why are you okay with China's media censorship laws?Originally posted by Paddo Colt 61 View Post
TBH you really are living in denial that there's some farked up shyte going on over there. Dunno why, all I can assume is that you've had too many bongs and your brain's cooked.
You speak as if 'mainstream' views are all some great conspiracy. That's fine if you wanna sit around in lah lah land, but seriously mate... have a think about how much coordination that would take between all of Europe, the USA, the UK, Japan...etc. It's as if on one hand you think all these countries are incompetent/failed but on the other you back them to all coordinate blanket control of every single independent media outlet across hundreds/thousands of languages.
In law school I learned that conspiracies like yours are frigging lazy excuses for doing some proper research and governments would NEVER be competent/organised enough to coordinate that kinda shyte. You heavily over-estimate how much control governments have over the free, independent media.Last edited by ism22; 12-16-2022, 10:47 PM.Comment
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mmm An Anti Commo is unreliable and a Commo is I gather you mean - That's one of your best yet Comrade Paddo.
You need to put "Spoken on Behalf of the Chinese Communist Party Beijing " at the end of your posts on this China Topic and "Spoken on Behalf of the Russian Federation Government the Kremlin Moscow" at the end of your posts on the Russia topics
Those that favour free Democratic societies dislike Communism including most people who lived under Communism as after all they voted on mass to get rid of that Evil Inhuman Repressive Ideology and System the first chance they had and do not want ever to see it back in any way shape or form.
There would be folk in China/Cuba/North Korea too who dislike Communism
Should we go over the History of Communism to point out again the reasons why it is an evil Inhuman repressive Ideology and System - It's notorious inhuman pure evil leaders and system/ Gulag Archipelago's/ Mass executions/ Mass Starvation/Mass Deportations etc - mmm
It is well known that the former Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam and her Government were Puppets of Beijing as after all they approve such appointments.
This will continue as well for every so called Hong Kong Government up until 2047 when they won't have one after that - only Chinese Commo Party Hacks picked by Beijing to sit on the National People's Congress with other Commo Party Hacks from across Communist China
The protests against Beijing's National Security Laws for Hong Kong are a continuation of the protests from 2019.
The Despised proposed 2019 Extradition Bill that led to wide spread protests was eventually scrapped a victory for Democracy - If not it would have opened the Door for the Chinese Communist Government to extradite anyone on any trumped up charge which of course Communist Regimes are well known for. - A one way trip to one of the many camps in Xinjiang Province or elsewhere to be "re-educated" perhaps
Controversy around the bill saw Lam’s support sink to a record low. Two years into her tenure, she was less popular than any of her predecessors were at the same point, according to the University of Hong Kong’s public opinion programme.
That public frustration was not inevitable, although Lam was far less popular than her main rival when she ran for chief executive in 2017, Lam only won as she was Beijing's favoured candidate
Ordinary Hong Kong residents do not get a vote on their leader. Instead, pro-Beijing interests dominate the 1,194-member committee that elected Lam.
On Carrie Lam "She is a pretty arrogant leader. She likes to remind people that she always came first in class, if people disagree with her she tries to correct them, she likes to prove that she knows best,” said Kenneth Chan, a professor in the department of government at Hong King Baptist University. “She does not take opposition or dissent well. And her intransigence has caused a serious governance crisis.”
That's Bunkum that there was any external forces or funding behind these protests or any other protests. - What next the CIA/MI6/ASIO/Mosad etc were behind the recent protests in China
The Hongkongers took to the streets on their own volition to protest against an unpopular proposed Extradition law and Government who were known puppets of Beijing as after all the CCP approve their appointments - the same as they did against Beijing's National Security Laws for Hong Kong
The very unpopular Carrie Lam did not seek a 2nd term and John Lee (Beijing Alliance) was the only candidate for the Hong Kong Chief Executive position with his appointment approved by the central China Communist Party Government
4 Other Demands have still not been addressed from the 2019 protests- For the protests not to be characterised as a "riot"
- Amnesty for arrested protesters
- An independent inquiry into alleged police brutality
- Implementation of complete universal suffrage
Universal suffrage advocacy
The highest office of Hong Kong Government, the Chief Executive, is selected by an Election Committee (EC) dominated by pro-Beijing politicians and tycoons.
Since the terms of Article 45 of the Basic Law of Hong Kong requiring "selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures" have not been implemented, the progress to universal suffrage has been the dominant issue in Hong Kong politics since the transfer of sovereignty in 1997.
Last edited by King Salvo; 12-16-2022, 11:22 PM.Comment
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I am afraid that anyone that writes articles for that John Menadue site should have their articles listed as opinion pieces only with disclaimers that the views. thoughts, and opinions expressed belong solely to the author or something along those lines.Originally posted by Paddo Colt 61 View Post
These are not articles to be relied on as fact or in any way deemed to be factual in their content.
One could never use them as a reference source for University Assignments for instance
Well the Cambridge 5 turned out to be Soviet Spies so anything is possible- He was born in Hong Kong and describes himself as Chinese and a unequivocally admirer of China like you are.
Hong Kong is inching towards becoming a full blown Authoritarian and Totalitarian state which it will become after 2047 or even before with the crackdowns under Beijing's National Security Laws - Freedom of the Press gone/ freedom of speech and right to freedom of assembly and association going and soon gone etc etc.
The terms of Article 45 of the Basic Law of Hong Kong requiring "selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures" have not been implemented.
Instead it's a pro-Beijing backed election committee of 1500 who "select "a nominee for Chief Executive with approval of Beijing of course - no one with even the tiniest fondness of democracy or democratic practices would ever be Chief Executive - Rusted on Pro-Beijing/Commies only can apply
Last edited by King Salvo; 12-17-2022, 02:26 AM.Comment
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