Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[Paddo Colt 61]

He hasn't debated anything MR, you're far too nice. Posting dross, playing the man and regaling us all with accounts of drunken nights with Japanese fisherfolk, drunken nights with anyone, craft beer, Limoncello, fitness runs in world capitals, eyewitnesses to events that didn't happen - none of that is debating, it's ranting, high self regard and boring.

I have frequently compared the records of China and the USA with regard to the benefits that accrue to their own people and to the world. I view China more favourably obviously because to do so is a no brainer. Accordingly I append this piece:

https://johnmenadue.com/democracy-versus-socialism/

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=King Salvo; Next you will be telling us that China has a free press and freedom of speech and association and the daily lives of all Chinese folk are not controlled by the CCP Chinese Government.
We have been over that survey result many times - again - It was a survey of 32,000 respondents over 15 years which was conducted by a CCP Chinese Government vetted and approved Chinese research and polling company.

* Next you'll be telling us that there's a free press here.
* No you've been over it many times....using your own "facts" . reminds me of Izzy's claim that the US Apache Gunship massacre in Iraq was the legitimate killing of "terrorists". The only guy in the world to think so.

[mightyrooster]

Thanks for that - I guess that I've now tried it as a tactic and as you say, it's hit a point where the pictures need a rest.

Re the funeral, we are home safely now. As a bit of a summary it was a pretty tiring/laborious process as we basically got off a plane, slept for a few hours and then got up at 5am every day for a full schedule of funeral activities. However, every time I do this stuff I love Vietnam & our family over there a lot more.

Will try not to bore you with all the details but I'm from a small family with a single mum. There's a certain grandiosity in attending a 98 year old, Vietnamese grandfather's funeral. I say the proceedings were tiring... but how else do you honour a person whose eyes woulda seen so much? I'm a strictly raised wog who went to sandstone boys private schools where emotions were always suppressed. However, I was crying the whole way through this. It wasn't about him... it was about the fact that his family had 9 kids (some of whom passed before him) and there's just so many stories about it all. I felt honoured that in EVERY speech/chant there was a tiny little mention that I'm now considered one of his grandsons. It's special and no words can describe the pleasure that I gained from visiting his house at 5am every day, breaking bread with all the friends/family (he was a teacher so had lotsa students attending) and being there for my Vietnamese dad.

So yeah... great trip! Ironically this one's probably best summarised in photos. However, I'll remain private. All I can say here is that it's crazy how far my (limited) thinking has come since marrying my current wife a little more than a decade ago. Throw out all the textbooks and degrees, I feel like one of the best ways to learn about other countries is through relationships. As a bit of an early financial new year's resolution, I think I'm gonna try my best to further the relationships that I've got. I'm personally very glad that following all the COVID lockdowns I (at first reluctantly) went to Vietnam for the lunar new year and broke bread with my Vietnamese grandpa on multiple occasions. Before then I didn't have a lot of positive things to say about Vietnam and nor did my wife (broadly speaking, we take a lot of luxuries for granted in Australia). Glad we both turned that corner before it was too late and very much look forward to my next visit. Though, my next trip's to Japan for my daughter's summer holidays. Bring it on!!!

I’m glad the funeral went well for you and your family. I hope your next trip to Japan will be better, for different reasons of course. I’m still planning our big UK trip, then Japan will be next on the list assuming the UK trip goes well and hasn’t scared us off big overseas trips.

[mightyrooster]

He hasn't debated anything MR, you're far too nice. Posting dross, playing the man and regaling us all with accounts of drunken nights with Japanese fisherfolk, drunken nights with anyone, craft beer, Limoncello, fitness runs in world capitals, eyewitnesses to events that didn't happen - none of that is debating, it's ranting, high self regard and boring.

I have frequently compared the records of China and the USA with regard to the benefits that accrue to their own people and to the world. I view China more favourably obviously because to do so is a no brainer. Accordingly I append this piece:

https://johnmenadue.com/democracy-versus-socialism/

I think there was a while there where he did debate well, then everything sort of went a bit crazy when the argument turned circular and it was a bit like beating your head against a brick wall. Well that’s how it felt to me when I stopped contributing. The whole thread then started to lose the plot until we eventually ended up with name calling, propaganda posters and Salvo repeating the same statements over and over again.

[A Country Member]

csb

[ism22]

I think there was a while there where he did debate well, then everything sort of went a bit crazy when the argument turned circular and it was a bit like beating your head against a brick wall. Well that’s how it felt to me when I stopped contributing. The whole thread then started to lose the plot until we eventually ended up with name calling, propaganda posters and Salvo repeating the same statements over and over again.

I think that's the broader issue... where is this thread going and what is the end game?

As an M&A lawyer (think guy who takes calls from extremely wealthy Chinese investors 24/7... literally) who spends 1/2 his life in Japan and Vietnam I can 100% guarantee that:

- John Menadue (who I doubt is very lucid these days) is stuck in the 70's when we didn't do business with Japan or China. Opening up was 'left-wing'. Cool. Things have moved on though... mate! Supporting models of fascism over liberal democracies is not social progression. In short... liberalising trade agreements is social progression. Strategic geopolitical alignment with fascist dictatorships is the exact opposite. I'm sorry that you are not able to see the difference.

- Most contributors to the one source you trust are on the payroll of the CCP/Kremlin. Anybody who's read wumao propaganda knows the canned lines and it's not the stuff of intellectual heavyweights as you claim. Rather, it's the repetitive drone of state-funded propaganda.

- News Ltd propaganda is not state-funded or coming from the government of the day. It favours conservative regimes but also has a history of bailing on them when shyte hits the fan. There is a MASSIVE difference between simps being conned by conservative puff from channel 9 / News Ltd and entire populations having one choice... the CCP/Kremlin's news channel or arrest and torture. I get that Channel 9 and News Ltd are royally shyte but they're not state-owned media outlets with the power to arrest those who disagree with them (much the opposite - the state regularly forces them to redact defamatory comments about random, private citizens with no connection to the government of the day). They are simply dodgy farks who misrepresent shyte in an attempt to control various public dialogues. MOST people are smart enough to see through such BS, though they'll watch Channel 9 or Fox for things like the footy when commercial arrangements are such that they have exclusivity over entertainment content (in order to score $$$ advertising revenue... capitalism and all. This is not the state pooling together public resources to control the masses, it's privately owned companies trying to make $$$!!!)

- Finally, there is no new world order that we're ignoring. Democracy is NOT dead!!! A large part of democracy is that we accept that our leaders/cultures/diversity of opinions...etc are not perfect. Our free media interrogates such concepts heavily and most of us are well aware of our flaws. This is why we are having this conversation... and why it will continue to go around and around with literally nobody stepping in to arrest/torture you for opposing liberal democracies. Enjoy the privilege but please... take a minute to reflect and realise that there's a reason why you would never move to China, Russia or North Korea. The reason being that their regimes do not afford their citizens the very freedom that you are flaunting by spreading fascist propaganda within a democracy.

Thank you. BTW if you wanna start watching Easts, we have a game this weekend. I suggest you have a look as it's quite soothing to have something in life other than a niche interest in some random 'opinions' blog (which is clearly inhabited by wumao... so sorry to break it to you).

[A Country Member]

Or you could play mixed netball and not know the difference between wing attack and cunnter

[mightyrooster]

csb

pe?

[Paddo Colt 61]

Here's a helpful comment on the "Rules based" bullshit that China is supposed to flout.

https://johnmenadue.com/how-to-trans...omatic-jargon/

[Paddo Colt 61]

Here's one for Izzy and his idea that our MSM (or any in the Anglophone world) is independent with "journalists" calling it as they see it - yeah, right.

https://johnmenadue.com/15-reasons-w...propagandists/

[Andrew Walker]

Here's one for Izzy and his idea that our MSM (or any in the Anglophone world) is independent with "journalists" calling it as they see it - yeah, right.

https://johnmenadue.com/15-reasons-w...propagandists/

Excellent piece of journalism PC

[Andrew Walker]

I append another interesting article and a must read from Pearls and Irritations. Highlighting a ridiculous comment that Biden has recently made regarding China It also claims an eyewitness account from the writer that Chinese Students are independent speakers and not afraid to disagree with their govt. Fascinating reading that adds weight to a claim PC has made in this thread

https://johnmenadue.com/so-joe-biden...do-bad-things/

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Andrew Walker; Excellent piece of journalism PC.

Indeed Andy, she's a very good writer that Caitlin Johnstone.

I can imagine old Isambard getting into a lather on this one. He believes, apparently, that Western MSM is a tireless seeker of truth, well they tell them that they are and would they lie? WMDs were an honest mistake and everyone knows that the Greens are bad news, probably Commo if the truth be known.

Back in the day and to a large extent now, recruitment into "Journalism" favoured those who hadn't finished high school. They were "trained up" on the job by subs who, themselves had had little education - blokey blow-hards for the most part. These days everyone has to go to the HSC but the situation is not much improved. There are 6 Bands, Bands 1&2 comprise the top 20% and if you achieve a Band 4 or even Band 3 you've pretty much failed the courses and would certainly have no place in real journalism. Unfortunately, they're the bands from which many teachers come as well these days. Little wonder that we rank so low in OECD education results and no wonder that a lot of kids play up - they're bored and can see how limited their teachers really are. Before the 2019 election I saw a female calling herself a high school "teacher" opine on the ABC that she thought that as Scomo was in her age cohort and had a family, he would look after them - Duh!!! No inkling of ideology apparently - a true sheeple.

[Paddo Colt 61]

An interesting commentary from a real Australian journalist not in the employ of out MSM.

https://johnmenadue.com/china-innova...n-with-the-us/

[zac]

there's a great doco on tiananmen square 1989 - The Gate of Heavenly Peace - Part 1 - Tiananmen Square Protests (youtube.com)

also a 12 part series on china in the 1980s if you have the time - The Heart Of The Dragon Ep 1 Remembering (youtube.com)