Let's get the Facts Right on China.

[ism22]

Weird that Colts says Zac it anti-China. IMO if anything he's made some generous statements about China.

Paddo - can we cut to the chase mate? The main problem with China is that you're not allowed to criticise their current government (which wasn't always the CCP by the way - Chinese people <> CCP, it's just the current regime, which the people can ot get rid of as it's a single party state).

If local media were allowed to do an FOI on all the Tiananmen Square files of the day for the purpose of critically analysing the CCP's position or go into some of the East Kyrgistan camps to do an all inclusive doco on how the locals feel then we'd have a starting point. Thing is, we don't have a starting point because their system's such a disgrace!!!

I'm confused as to why you (ironically) sit around spreading your controversial opinions, while simultaneously suggesting that a government that bans such discussions is the 'good guy' whereas we're all just biased and unfairly criticising them.

[Paddo Colt 61]

I'm always amused at that line, "You can't criticise the government". It's pat and unspecific and stupid - the masses of sheeple anywhere are uninterested and wouldn't know where to start for one thing and, anyway, Harvard's respected Brookings Institute which surveys population satisfaction with government records a 96% approval rate in China. The philosopher Herbert Marcuse called the US system one of Repressive Tolerance whereby criticism by the less powerful is tolerated but given zero oxygen by a conformist player media.

Little wonder that 96% of Chinese are happy with the system - the nation is on the verge of becoming preeminent economically and poverty is being systematically dealt with dazzling results and the World already acknowledges the amazing achievements in that regard. In the US the masses of low paid and even the better off get a wage and that's it. The Chinese worker gets a low wage too but also accommodation, a guaranteed job, free education and health care. What might they be criticising? Working people in Australia and the US might find that package attractive. Criticism is an integral part of the CCP as an institution anyway. Party members who number over 90 million elect local reps all the way to the Congress. Their democracy is intra party and, by the looks, very effective. The idea that madmen and sadists are in charge is crude and frankly dumb. Very dumb.

I've written before about bourgeois democracy. It's a system which replaced Absolutism (Monarchy) after private wealth became so powerful that it could agitate and finance revolution. It is their system, that's why there is visceral hatred and opposition to an alternative system where their power is at stake not to mention their relevance. Monarchs were the same - fought and resisted change tooth and nail. Change is the only universal constant and it's fatuous to hold onto "absolutes".

Archeologists in the Western Mediterranean have uncovered what were once thriving Bronze Age settlements of considerable size which had sophisticated systems of governance, trade and relations with one another. Their citizens must have thought always was and always will be. Investigation of those sites shows evidence of fire, violent destruction and famine. Climate change refugees brought disease and violence and it was all over pretty quickly. Nothing is forever.

And MR, if you did look at "China Central News or whatever it's called" as well as our MSM (which is American in reality) you might determine a middle, more balanced view of the World and the dynamic now in play. But I doubt it, your conservatism is deep like so many others'.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

I'm always amused at that line, "You can't criticise the government". It's pat and unspecific and stupid - the masses of sheeple anywhere are uninterested and wouldn't know where to start for one thing and, anyway, Harvard's respected Brookings Institute which surveys population satisfaction with government records a 96% approval rate in China. The philosopher Herbert Marcuse called the US system one of Repressive Tolerance whereby criticism by the less powerful is tolerated but given zero oxygen by a conformist player media.

Little wonder that 96% of Chinese are happy with the system - the nation is on the verge of becoming preeminent economically and poverty is being systematically dealt with dazzling results and the World already acknowledges the amazing achievements in that regard. In the US the masses of low paid and even the better off get a wage and that's it. The Chinese worker gets a low wage too but also accommodation, a guaranteed job, free education and health care. What might they be criticising? Working people in Australia and the US might find that package attractive. Criticism is an integral part of the CCP as an institution anyway. Party members who number over 90 million elect local reps all the way to the Congress. Their democracy is intra party and, by the looks, very effective. The idea that madmen and sadists are in charge is crude and frankly dumb. Very dumb.

I've written before about bourgeois democracy. It's a system which replaced Absolutism (Monarchy) after private wealth became so powerful that it could agitate and finance revolution. It is their system, that's why there is visceral hatred and opposition to an alternative system where their power is at stake not to mention their relevance. Monarchs were the same - fought and resisted change tooth and nail. Change is the only universal constant and it's fatuous to hold onto "absolutes".

Archeologists in the Western Mediterranean have uncovered what were once thriving Bronze Age settlements of considerable size which had sophisticated systems of governance, trade and relations with one another. Their citizens must have thought always was and always will be. Investigation of those sites shows evidence of fire, violent destruction and famine. Climate change refugees brought disease and violence and it was all over pretty quickly. Nothing is forever.

And MR, if you did look at "China Central News or whatever it's called" as well as our MSM (which is American in reality) you might determine a middle, more balanced view of the World and the dynamic now in play. But I doubt it, your conservatism is deep like so many others'.

Are you a Chinese spy? Your comments are ridiculous and suggest a deep lack of intelligence and ability to comprehend the world. You have no ****ing idea what it is like here.

[mightyrooster]

Wrong Paddo. I do have a balanced view, as I am fully aware that the US / West manipulate the media for its own cause and end, JUST AS CHINA does. It is you who needs to take a more balanced approach as you seem to believe without question that everything that comes out of China is completely pure and unbiased and without a hint of propaganda.

[rented tracksuit]

Today is are you ok day and as such is not the day for such insults. Please be a little more sensitive next time

Todays not. Stuff him.

Go Easts!

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=mightyrooster;.............It is you who needs to take a more balanced approach as you seem to believe without question that everything that comes out of China is completely pure and unbiased and without a hint of propaganda.

No I don't. I, and many others, just try to contribute a measure of reasonableness into what is the over the top animus toward China propagated by the United States and lately by our own Labor government. The overwhelming negativity with regard to China has little basis in facts but you accept it uncritically.

I'll bet that you're all lamenting the Queen's carking. Now there's something that will attract a lame opinion or two thousand, no doubt repeating, Lemming like, all the media dribble that's upon us. Group thinkers "waiting for others to tell you what to do. Follow the leader. " I can't bring myself to read the drivel on RIP Elizabeth - all of it MSM low brow echoing.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n961903][QUOTE=mightyrooster;.............It is you who needs to take a more balanced approach as you seem to believe without question that everything that comes out of China is completely pure and unbiased and without a hint of propaganda.

No I don't. I, and many others, just try to contribute a measure of reasonableness into what is the over the top animus toward China propagated by the United States and lately by our own Labor government. The overwhelming negativity with regard to China has little basis in facts but you accept it uncritically.

I'll bet that you're all lamenting the Queen's carking. Now there's something that will attract a lame opinion or two thousand, no doubt repeating, Lemming like, all the media dribble that's upon us. Group thinkers "waiting for others to tell you what to do. Follow the leader. " I can't bring myself to read the drivel on RIP Elizabeth - all of it MSM low brow echoing.


[/QUOTE]

You claim intelligence but can not complete a grammatically correct sentence.

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=Dr. Voodoo Man;n961877]

Are you a Chinese spy? Your comments are ridiculous and suggest a deep lack of intelligence and ability to comprehend the world. You have no ****ing idea what it is like here.

Jeez, hotish under the collar and driven by an implacable sense of decency and fairness to register his concern but abuse and no reasoned argument or facts makes it all a waste of time and emotion. Where is "here" anyway? Lismore where people can only afford to live on flood plains? Martin Place where dozens sleep and eat on the city streets? Manus Island where innocent people have been warehoused for years? Or China where you don't belong and don't share the culture nor the history. Gimme a break puleez.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

Todays not. Stuff him.

Go Easts!

fark this idiot. T Square didn't happen? Guy is a waste of oxygen.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Never claimed intelligence. Re T - Square, simple, google it! One of the big reasons Uncle Sam wants Assange in Super Max.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

[QUOTE=Paddo Colt 61;n961909]

Are you a Chinese spy? Your comments are ridiculous and suggest a deep lack of intelligence and ability to comprehend the world. You have no ****ing idea what it is like here.

Jeez, hotish under the collar and driven by an implacable sense of decency and fairness to register his concern but abuse and no reasoned argument or facts makes it all a waste of time and emotion. Where is "here" anyway? Lismore where people can only afford to live on flood plains? Martin Place where dozens sleep and eat on the city streets? Manus Island where innocent people have been warehoused for years? Or China where you don't belong and don't share the culture nor the history. Gimme a break puleez.

Here is China. I have Permanent Resident status so apparently someone thinks I belong here.

[ism22]

I'm always amused at that line, "You can't criticise the government".

Have a beer and think about that one mate.

[mightyrooster]

You know Paddo there’s no point debating with someone who’s always right. You make the same incorrect claims about my opinions that you’ve made several times before. I’ve countered those criticisms with the same arguments again and again and yet we keep going around in circles, like the previous discussions never existed. It really is pointless. It seems your views are always original whereas anyone who disagrees with them is never capable of thinking for themselves.

Please do keep out of the Queen thread.

[rented tracksuit]

[QUOTE=Dr. Voodoo Man;n961907]

You claim intelligence but can not complete a grammatically correct sentence.

Or use the quote button properly.

[eddie]

Never claimed intelligence. Re T - Square, simple, google it! One of the big reasons Uncle Sam wants Assange in Super Max.

Well I did the exercise and googled it, even though I remember what happened.....Bob Hawke crying and all.
Anyway, it just confirmed what I knew.
By all reports a lot more people died than China has ever admitted.