The Whitlam Government - another US inspired Coup?

[A Country Member]

Coup? For those interested in the potential for one could look to Brazil and the armed supporters of defeated former leader, Jair Bolsonaro, who recently lost a close election after a single term as president of Brazil.

Some of his supporters have camped outside army barracks in an attempt to coerce the military into staging a coup. This is following the 2019 relaxation of gun licence laws that former president Bolsonaro relaxed which saw the number of registered gun owners increase to 700,000. A sixfold increase in under 3 years!

Why does Brazil matter you ask?

The new leader, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, is returning to office for the third time, with previous stints in 2002 and 2006. He is the leader of the Worker’s Party. His selection for vice-president was Geraldo Alckmin, the leader of the Brazilian Socialist Party.

The country itself has similarities with Australia on a global scale. It is a similar geographical size and the fifth largest in the world, Aus is the sixth. They have a similar sized economy ranking at the 12th largest by nominal gdp - Aus is the 14th. Brazil is also resource rich and has a large agricultural economy.

However the country is much more populous - ten times actually with 216m people, which the the seventh largest in the world and second in the Americas behind the USA with 334m.

Now that the election result has been ratified and the new president has been sworn in, let’s hope that the supporters of the vanquished leader don’t react like his mate Trumps supporters and threaten to use force and weapons to overthrow the democratically elected government.

[King Salvo]

Shocking but very interesting read Andy. Goes to show that good/evil are points of view. But King won't read it, too much cognitive dissonance involved,

Wiki is a very good source especially for, say, literary opinion but matters political can be hijacked. The prevalence of emotional language used in the material that King cites, suggests clumsy and crude manipulation and reminds one of the recent exposure of US intelligence activity on Youtube.

What's your take on your Commo China mates providing weaponry to the Mujaheddin then- Ah yes the Great falling out between Stalin and Mao - The Sino-Soviet Split - No Honour Among Thieves - mmm despots

[ism22]

Why does Brazil matter you ask?

...

The country itself has similarities with Australia on a global scale. It is a similar geographical size and the fifth largest in the world, Aus is the sixth. They have a similar sized economy ranking at the 12th largest by nominal gdp - Aus is the 14th. Brazil is also resource rich and has a large agricultural economy.

However the country is much more populous - ten times actually with 216m people, which the the seventh largest in the world and second in the Americas behind the USA with 334m.

As usual, I think your flaw is that you compare developing economies to developed economies without giving any appreciation to the fact this is a frigging huge, fundamental difference in itself.

Australia is a developed country in the Asia/Pacific region and ~85% of its exports are to Asia (~30% of which is China as you're so interested in Australia becoming a little China).

We enjoy stability because we're a developed liberal democracy that is very low on the corruption index (Brazil, China and Russia are very high) and our independent judicial arm of government is underpinned by the rule of law. I respect you're quite the skeptic of our Washminster system (and believe Murdoch / the CIA actually run the show) but seriously... one thing I do in life is read a heap of judgments. We're not a country where 99.99% of court decisions favour the government of the day. Your pet example of Assange is proof of this! If a guy has the money to hire $$$ lawyers and the will to appeal EVERY little decision then the applicable laws will be independently tested by officers of the court (who have a duty to the court above all). Heck, we take pride in examples like the Castle and Mabo because we're a bunch of larrikins who love seeing the government of the day being told to get farked by the courts.

Our systems are fundamentally different from countries where coups are possible. Countries like China bar them by executing all dissenters and taking away their extended family's earthly possessions (i.e. making sure everybody lives in fear). Both the CCP and the Kremlin took power by force. Australia just did it gradually by slowly telling a bunch of governors, lords and privy councils to get farked. The UK then passed legislation that reflected what had already happened (i.e. they gave us our independence to form our own Commonwealth - the complete OPPOSITE of what Russia and China are doing today by trying to take-over neighbouring countries on the argument that previous regimes [not the CCP or Kremlin] may have controlled them as part of bygone empires).

It's true that the USA had a revolution and a civil war. However, it's also true that the English monarch has become a figurehead (much like Japan's). Both countries gave abandoned their empire-building activities and accept that they have mo valid claim over countries they have previous ruled over (again - opposite to Russia / China's expansionary thinking).

The above is important as we've never had a civil war or a revolution. Talk to my in-laws (I'm about to hop on a plane to Vietnam so can Skype you in, bro). France, China and Japan did NOT give Vietnam independence. My in-laws are highly critical of how they enslaved the Vietnamese, used them for profit and had no intention of letting them have their independence. Whereas - like it or not - the UK has ultimately allowed all of its ex-colonies to be independent. This has enabled the more developed ones to setup stable, prosperous systems that are unlikely to fall any time soon. The developing ones? Well look... they're now on their own... for better or for worse. Some have been quite successful too, which we'll see in coming years.

Your suggestion that we become a 'little China' (like Russia) and thumb our nose at 70% of our trade partners by doing so is an absolute joke. As China's economy stagnates (already happening) it's share of our exports will drop and we're gonna continue to reap the benefits of being a liberal democracy with a diverse range of trade partners.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Fail mark again. Wrong in so many ways.

* The Count posted the original comment and we are not one and the same though I would have been proud to have been the originator.
* Assange an example of the independent rule of law? Gotta be kiddin'. The case is an egregious example of political interference. Blind Freddy agrees.
* The Castle is a movie fiction. The HC decision in the movie was against a Corporation not a Government.
* Mabo was a decision that found that Australia, when "discovered" was not a Terra Nullius. The Howard Government promptly undid it wherever possible - not a lot of "get farked" there my friend.
* "......a buncha larrikins"? Media bullshit! We are a very conservative society. Mostly because our traditional rejection of educational rigour makes us easy meat for a popular media dominated by the Right (the King of the Right worldwide if the truth be known).
* Britain reluctantly abandoned Empire under pressure from the US which had 2 motives - to get rid of English trade preferences in the Empire and to diminish the appeal of Communism to those who wished to shed colonialism (see Nelson Mandela in SA). Old style empire building has been replaced by the deployment of soft power. We are a client state of the US and the masses, in thrall to popular American culture, are fine with that in fact many think that we are part of the US. Witness the hand wringing here over 9/11.
* Nobody has suggested that we become "Little China" but China is our largest trade partner by far and saved us from the ravages of the GFC, Tt would be good, however, if we could shrug off the influence of the US. China wants to lead the world to prosperity via The Belt and Road initiative which has been enthusiastically embraced in Central Asia and in Africa. We need to find ways in which to join in that initiative.

[King Salvo]

Fail mark again. Wrong in so many ways.

* The Count posted the original comment and we are not one and the same though I would have been proud to have been the originator.
* Assange an example of the independent rule of law? Gotta be kiddin'. The case is an egregious example of political interference. Blind Freddy agrees.
* The Castle is a movie fiction. The HC decision in the movie was against a Corporation not a Government.
* Mabo was a decision that found that Australia, when "discovered" was not a Terra Nullius. The Howard Government promptly undid it wherever possible - not a lot of "get farked" there my friend.
* "......a buncha larrikins"? Media bullshit! We are a very conservative society. Mostly because our traditional rejection of educational rigour makes us easy meat for a popular media dominated by the Right (the King of the Right worldwide if the truth be known).
* Britain reluctantly abandoned Empire under pressure from the US which had 2 motives - to get rid of English trade preferences in the Empire and to diminish the appeal of Communism to those who wished to shed colonialism (see Nelson Mandela in SA). Old style empire building has been replaced by the deployment of soft power. We are a client state of the US and the masses, in thrall to popular American culture, are fine with that in fact many think that we are part of the US. Witness the hand wringing here over 9/11.
* Nobody has suggested that we become "Little China" but China is our largest trade partner by far and saved us from the ravages of the GFC, Tt would be good, however, if we could shrug off the influence of the US. China wants to lead the world to prosperity via The Belt and Road initiative which has been enthusiastically embraced in Central Asia and in Africa. We need to find ways in which to join in that initiative.

So in a nutshell Comrade Paddo you want us to be re-educated, change to a communist style of government and be subservient to China

That ain't going to happen

[Paddo Colt 61]

I don't quite see how you could draw those conclusions from what I said. See, if you want people to enjoy reading this thread, you don't want them to be bored.Too much ideological blathering is boring verging on aggravating. I'm suggesting it is a ploy to terminate the thread by boring people to death,

[King Salvo]

mmm "Too much ideological blathering is boring verging on aggravating" is you to a T - everything you post has the same Anti-West// Anti Capitalist / Westphobia / Anti-Atlanticism vibe and it's like a broken record and oh MSN and Sheepies always get's a run when your dishing other posters views and or the West

Quite easy to come to these conclusions though.

Re-Education - You said " Mostly because our traditional rejection of educational rigour makes us easy meat for a popular media dominated by the Right (the King of the Right worldwide if the truth be known"

As per your post you are very left wing and want this Commo ideology to be part of the curriculum - a major part being Anti-West

Change to a Communist style of Government - You said " To diminish the appeal of Communism to those who wished to shed colonialism"

You are advocating a Communist Government style with your diminish the appeal of Communism comment.

Subservient to China - You said " If we could shrug off the influence of the US .China wants to lead the world to prosperity via The Belt and Road initiative We need to find ways in which to join in that initiative."

You want us to be aligned with China and thus become subservient to China due to your dislike of the West especially the US

As I said it isn't going to happen

[ism22]

You want us to be aligned with China and thus become subservient to China due to your dislike of the West especially the US

As I said it isn't going to happen

Decent summary. That's pretty much all he's saying... I don't think he knows anything about China or how it operates. He's just a western doomsday theorist who wants us to believe the exact opposite of what any mainstream source of news/facts is gonna tell us.

We were are all idiot 'sheeple' who are too stupid to understand his world views (wholly sourced from johnmenadue.com).

Not sure where his over-emphasis of Whitlam-era politics comes from. I guess he's excited about the fact that after decades of Menzies-style (often gratuitous) Commie bashing, somebody got in and said 'we should have some sorta diplomatic relationship with China'. Without trying to downplay the significance of this move, I think saying 'hey let's talk and do business together' is VERY different to Paddo's 'they should be our biggest ally and we should ditch all our current allies in favour of pursuing this relationship' kinda thinking.

I'm curious where Paddo gets his fantasies about Chinese supremacy from as he the closest he's ever been to it is while high as a kite on weed and reading johnmenadue.com.

[Paddo Colt 61]

I studied China during my university years. Like every other course I took, it was highly illuminating as I, like most people, had little idea of its culture and history.

China is not an upstart state. Apart from the recent century of colonialism, it has millennial experience in leadership and the Confucian tradition that has guided it is still in effect today mirrored by the CCP.

For thousands of years, because of its mighty gravitational pull, it pretty much decided the economic welfare of the East. There was no need for empire building, neighbours far and wide sought its patronage. Just as today, it was not militaristic nor expansionist. Not a "threat" to anyone - it has just one foreign "base" in Djibouti unlike the bellicose USA which maintains over 800 of them and all are offensive.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

I studied China during my university years. Like every other course I took, it was highly illuminating as I, like most people, had little idea of its culture and history.

China is not an upstart state.

Maybe you could tell us then why the Central Kingdom's history and culture began in 1949 despite being thousands of years old?

What is this Colonialism you speak of?

[ism22]

I studied China during my university years. Like every other course I took, it was highly illuminating as I, like most people, had little idea of its culture and history.

Good - start showing us some actual knowledge of it then rather than repeating the widely discredited opinions of John Menadue's editorial.

No offence but you haven't achieved much from an academic perspective or done anything more substantial with it than teaching high school kids.

If I'm honest, you learn fark all at high school and during undergrad degrees (other than how to quote stuff correctly and read widely, which is hardly your forte). One subject in Chinese? Mate pickup a Chinese newspaper, tell me how many characters you can recognise and then describe to me the 'illuminating' feeling of realisation that you're outta your depth. I mean it was so illuminating that you decided not to visit the country, learn the language or pursue a career with any relevance to Asian trade/geopolitics (which will ALWAYS be intertwined).

While I could quote my vastly superior scholarly achievements and work experience, I think most of it's been chronicled on here so doesn't need to be repeated out loud in a boastful manner. The important part is that I'm in M&A so deal with Chinese investment flows daily. Further, I've lived in Japan for a number of years, speak the language fluently and know what China's more experienced neighbours have learned about dealing with them successfully. Suffice to say there's a whole heap of nuances when dealing with dictatorships that Chinese billionaires regularly disclose to me off the record.

As an example of what you won't find on John Menadue's compilation of rocks and iterations, I've quite literally acted for billionaires who have later been executed by the CCP on the basis of closed-court, wholly fabricated allegations. One day you have the daughter of a calm/collected client known for his charitable work rocking up with authority to give instructions on his behalf for a seemingly fanciful 'plan b'. The next day he's dead. So yes, boast about how insightful a stick of acid-laced Mary Jane, a first year China 101 arts subject and a read of Stones and Incantations has been. Then wake up and realise that a lot of the mainstream facts that you are really just assumed knowledge when doing business with the CCP (as opposed to Chinese people - who are way smarter than the dumb@rse sheeple shyte that you just assume they actually fall for).

[Paddo Colt 61]

[QUOTE=ism22; While I could quote my[B] vastly superior scholarly achievements and work experience, [/B]I think most of it's been chronicled on here so doesn't need to be repeated out loud in a boastful manner.

Jeez, You'd never know it.
Your comments on geopolitics are pedestrian to say the least. Is it scholarly to totally reflect the MSM and ordinary people as you are prone to do? Group think is not a virtue worth having.

* I've quite literally acted for billionaires who have later been executed by the CCP on the basis of closed-court, wholly fabricated allegations..

Puleez, not again - Izzy, or a mate, reporting from the dramatic centre of things, witnessing chicanery in all its forms and sounding the clarion call of freedom if more than a little inarticulately (that damned booze does it every time). Billionaires? Bullshit!

And a word about Japan which you lionise so much. All modern militaries at war do terrible things and create bedlam but the scope and time-scale of Japanese military atrocities, lethally affecting not just combatants but tens of millions of civilians, puts it in a terrible class, keeping company with the massive, Nazi-led display of utmost depravity which engulfed Europe. This is the fundamental reason why a Pacifist Constitution was imposed on Nippon in 1947. By its collective, widespread resort to continuous, dehumanised conduct when waging war, Japan had and has placed itself in an exceptionally reprehensible category. And the very worst of this inexcusable conduct was centred on China for over 20 years, until the end of WW2. I can provide more dreadful details.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

In the battle of the lack of wits I think Comrade Paddo is edging ahead of the Jizz today.

[Paddo Colt 61]

That's rich coming from an educator who seemingly has no idea about what happened to China in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It was colonised first by the British whose "treaties" granted all manner of "concessions" to other European imperialists. The USA prevented full scale colonisation by insisting on "Open Door" in 1900. It's motive is to be found in Carnegie's "Iron Law" which I've discussed previously and which decreed open fields with fair competition to be in the best interests of American industry. The Japs took over in the 20th century, invading in the 30s with a mind to adding China to its imperial dreams,

You live in a former colony my boy. It was never not a part of China. Likewise Taiwan. Yet you , a mere atom in the broad scheme of things, objects to the governing ideology which puts people first in pandemics, which has enjoyed world acclaim for its efforts to alleviate poverty, has undergone spectacular economic success spreading prosperity far and wide and which is approved of by 96% of its population (Harvard university). The Anglo MSM'c China phobia is what has you wanting to deny reunification, having been, in the past, no doubt a champion (in your own small way) of German reunification.

[Dr. Voodoo Man]

That's rich coming from an educator who seemingly has no idea about what happened to China in the 19th and early 20th centuries. It was colonised first by the British whose "treaties" granted all manner of "concessions" to other European imperialists. The USA prevented full scale colonisation by insisting on "Open Door" in 1900. It's motive is to be found in Carnegie's "Iron Law" which I've discussed previously and which decreed open fields with fair competition to be in the best interests of American industry. The Japs took over in the 20th century, invading in the 30s with a mind to adding China to its imperial dreams,

You live in a former colony my boy. It was never not a part of China. Likewise Taiwan. Yet you , a mere atom in the broad scheme of things, objects to the governing ideology which puts people first in pandemics, which has enjoyed world acclaim for its efforts to alleviate poverty, has undergone spectacular economic success spreading prosperity far and wide and which is approved of by 96% of its population (Harvard university). The Anglo MSM'c China phobia is what has you wanting to deny reunification, having been, in the past, no doubt a champion (in your own small way) of German reunification.

Lets be honest Comrade. The one whose intelligence and integrity we should question is in fact yours Comrade. I think you are a hardcore troll who is just playing a character but mostly you are a cutter and paster of walls of text. Only a genuine halftard would spend their days writing political retorts to Chookpen members. You have never been to China. You have never been to Hong Kong. I doubt you have left your mummy's home to be honest. You don't even know where Pok Fu Lam is or that it is a high end district located right next to Central. You think anywhere on HK Island is in the sticks? Living on HK Island brings high status as it considered better than Kowloon, New Territories or any Outlying Islands. So you claim to have lived in this rich area on HK Island but you are a communist?! Hardly a common man of the people? What did you do in Hong Kong? Why didn't you head right to Beijing and let the CCP share your brilliance? Surely you did not teach. Also, was your career highlight working at Glebe High School? What a strange badge of honour.. How many times have you been to Mainland China? I've lost count myself, maybe around 50 times, plus 3 years in Taiwan and 16 years in Hong Kong. But still you know better, right Comrade?

Hey Comrade, I live on HK Island and I'm also a self made multi-millionaire just from being an educator. Tell us about your life a little Comrade. Where do you pretend to teach at these days?

Also just a small fact for everyone - there is no Glebe High. No such school exists. I was once the head prefect and dux of Coogee High sucker.