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  • Inglis, Cooper and the new Salary Cap Rules

    http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l...817-128i7.html

    Relaxed NRL salary cap rules help Parramatta launch raid for Quade BRAD WALTER
    August 18, 2010

    ANALYSIS

    It has been well known for some time in league circles that Quade Cooper was interested in switching codes, but it was not until recent changes to the salary cap rules that NRL clubs have been in a position to make him the first Wallabies recruit since Garrick Morgan joined the South Queensland Crushers in 1995.

    With corporate support for the 15-man code in Australia dwindling, the ARU has decided that the big-money contracts afforded to the likes of Lote Tuqiri and Matt Giteau are now a thing of the past and want to put the country's top players on largely incentive-based contracts whereby their income is supplemented by Test match appearances.

    But at the same time, the NRL has loosened its salary cap rules so that players can earn guaranteed third-party payments of up to $300,000 and an unlimited amount from non-club sponsors. Further changes enable clubs to offer cars and players to take advantage of tax breaks for the use of their intellectual property rights.

    As a result, Cooper will be able to earn more than $850,000 per year if he accepts Parramatta's three-year offer whereas the deal tabled by the ARU guarantees the Wallabies playmaker just $360,000 per year.

    While the offer represents a $100,000 increase on Cooper's current rugby deal, it is less than half the money that Giteau - the player Cooper supplanted for the Australian No.10 jersey - receives, but the ARU can no longer afford such lucrative contracts.

    Coincidentally, it was the ARU's role in blocking a possible move by Cooper from the Queensland Reds to the Western Force - where a $110,000 ceiling salary Australian Super 14s franchises are permitted to pay players would have been topped up by third-party deals from Perth businesses - that first prompted him to consider a switch to league.

    Officials from other NRL clubs yesterday told the Herald they had been sounded out about their interest in Cooper a month ago, and after missing out on Melbourne halfback Cooper Cronk the Eels opened negotiations with the Wallabies five-eighth last week.

    Cooper had wanted to join good mates David Pocock and James O'Connor at the Force, but the QRU is jointly administered by the ARU after suffering financial problems earlier this year. The 22-year-old is the Reds' biggest drawcard so he could not be allowed to leave for the riches on offer in Perth.

    Apart from his $110,000 Super rugby contract, Cooper receives a car and accommodation allowance from the QRU that takes his deal with the Reds to about $150,000. He has signed with the QRU for a further two years but that is subject to his finalising a deal with the ARU, which pays him $110,000 and has offered to increase that to $210,000 next year.

    But with the NRL having recently doubled the marquee player allowance for each club from $150,000 to $300,000, the Eels have at least $150,000 they can offer him in guaranteed third-party sponsorship deals with club sponsors on top of his base contract. In addition, Parramatta officials have told the Herald that other corporate backers are lining up to do deals with Cooper if he signs with the club and it is now believed he could earn up to $1 million by making the switch.

    Such deals enabled the Broncos to snare Greg Inglis from Melbourne last week on a $300,000 playing contract and it was revealed that Justin Hodges is on the same money, while captain Darren Lockyer is listed at $250,000 under the salary cap and Sam Thaiday at $240,000.



    After reading this, it got me thinking that we must have some room to move under the salary cap. I wonder if we're actually looking at chasing anybody, whether it be a UK based player such as Jamie Graham, or if we are keeping our powder try and looking to tie up our existing players on longer term deals. Maybe after next years rugby world cup, we might look at a Kurtley Beale type aquisition as a replacement for Miniciello. Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Thoughts... don't get Beale to replace mini... get a league player if you're gonna replace Mini (but why replace him? Under the new rules we can keep him because he's always been a Rooster! Might as well keep Mini I reckon...)

    $850,000 on any 1 player is waaaay too much in my opinion. What I think we need is depth, and from league ranks! Marquee players don't work, they just take away your depth... for example in order to get Gaz back from yawnion the Dragons had to dump lots of up and coming talent (e.g. Linnett.) What we need is more depth in my opinion... and LEAGUE players, not yawnion players!! 2 Completely different sports, and yawnion players always fail when they move over to league (unless they're Craig Wing... but he's a different story + didn't start on a fat salary.)

    Nothing against union, but I'm more of a league fan, and don't think cross-code players work all that well regardless of which direction they travel unless they have prior experience and go at their own will.

    For example Ryan Cross was one of our biggest losses to union... not now, but I would have liked to have seen us keep him. He's still one of our highest point scorers ever and has had some cracking union form. Wonder why he never gets a mention? Dell, Rogers, Lote and Tahu got paid squillions + failed...

    I haven't really heard of any recent day union converts being league champions... probably because they've all failed? Sure the ball's the same, but the 2 games are completely different, and I don't think being a start in 1 code instantly means you'll have any aptitude for the other code.

    If you spend $850,000 on a player and he fails... you're ****ed! Whereas if you get 4 players on about 200K each, you'll have more depth, and more chances that your players will find form during the season.

    Comment


    • #3
      If the weekend report about us being filthy about missing out on Foran is correct that would indicate we had a considerable amount of funds available as he wouldn't have come cheap, add that to the cap increases we must have some funds left, maybe we are building from the bottom up and upgrading contracts for the likes of Maubs/Linnett/Leilua rather than chasing any more big name flops.

      looking a the players leaving this year who where in our top 20

      Jaubs
      Koups
      Paea
      Williamson
      JP Du Plesis
      Kennedy? (very concerned we haven't tied him up yet)

      new signings

      Tasi (Manly)
      Watts (Cowboys)
      J. Carney (Canberra)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ism22 View Post
        If you spend $850,000 on a player and he fails... you're ****ed! Whereas if you get 4 players on about 200K each, you'll have more depth, and more chances that your players will find form during the season.
        Give me a wave from one of your 4 Fords, as I go swishing past in my Ferrari...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pass the Ball View Post
          Give me a wave from one of your 4 Fords, as I go swishing past in my Ferrari...
          I can see what ism22 is saying and there is no guarantee that Cooper will succeed. For him to be the highest paid 5/8 or halfback in our game is bordering on desperation if Parramatta get him. Well it actually is desperation as they can't attract a decent one within our game.

          Maybe 4 players at $200K is not a classic example but if Pearce and Carney combined are being paid around that money, I know which one I would prefer. Two Ferraris for the price of one but you are guaranteed authenticity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ism22 View Post
            Thoughts... don't get Beale to replace mini... get a league player if you're gonna replace Mini (but why replace him? Under the new rules we can keep him because he's always been a Rooster! Might as well keep Mini I reckon...)

            $850,000 on any 1 player is waaaay too much in my opinion. What I think we need is depth, and from league ranks! Marquee players don't work, they just take away your depth... for example in order to get Gaz back from yawnion the Dragons had to dump lots of up and coming talent (e.g. Linnett.) What we need is more depth in my opinion... and LEAGUE players, not yawnion players!! 2 Completely different sports, and yawnion players always fail when they move over to league (unless they're Craig Wing... but he's a different story + didn't start on a fat salary.)

            Nothing against union, but I'm more of a league fan, and don't think cross-code players work all that well regardless of which direction they travel unless they have prior experience and go at their own will.

            For example Ryan Cross was one of our biggest losses to union... not now, but I would have liked to have seen us keep him. He's still one of our highest point scorers ever and has had some cracking union form. Wonder why he never gets a mention? Dell, Rogers, Lote and Tahu got paid squillions + failed...

            I haven't really heard of any recent day union converts being league champions... probably because they've all failed? Sure the ball's the same, but the 2 games are completely different, and I don't think being a start in 1 code instantly means you'll have any aptitude for the other code.

            If you spend $850,000 on a player and he fails... you're ****ed! Whereas if you get 4 players on about 200K each, you'll have more depth, and more chances that your players will find form during the season.
            I wasn't necessarily advocating we go out and target a rugby star, just used Beale as an example because it tied in with the article.

            However, I'm just wondering how far back your knowledge of rugby league goes?


            Comments such as this

            I haven't really heard of any recent day union converts being league champions... probably because they've all failed? Sure the ball's the same, but the 2 games are completely different, and I don't think being a start in 1 code instantly means you'll have any aptitude for the other code.


            would indicate to me that you're a young fan. I can give you one significant reason why you can't remember any union converts being league champions.....there's hardly been any since rugby went professional! Sure there's the odd junior here and there such JP Du Plessis, but its been a long time since league signed a high profile rugby player.

            Prior to rugby going professional there were a host of players who switched codes and were successful. Darren Junee and Peter Jorgensen are two former Roosters players who comfortably made the switch in the mid 90's. League has a long history of players switching from rugby and being successful. Look at the old Winfield Cup and you will see one of them immortalised in bronze. Michael O'Connor, Ray Price were tremendously successful. Russell Fairfax, Ken Wright, John Ballesty are a few more former Roosters who comfortably handled the switch. For the outside backs the basic skills required are still pretty much the same.

            As I said, I don't necessarily advocate chasing a rah rah, but to say they aren't going to be successful because the games are too different has been proven to be just out and out wrong.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pass the Ball View Post
              Give me a wave from one of your 4 Fords, as I go swishing past in my Ferrari...
              I'll reciprocate the favour when i see you with a service bill. :P

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Headless Chook View Post
                .

                Prior to rugby going professional there were a host of players who switched codes and were successful. Darren Junee and Peter Jorgensen are two former Roosters players who comfortably made the switch in the mid 90's. League has a long history of players switching from rugby and being successful. Look at the old Winfield Cup and you will see one of them immortalised in bronze. Michael O'Connor, Ray Price were tremendously successful. Russell Fairfax, Ken Wright, John Ballesty are a few more former Roosters who comfortably handled the switch. For the outside backs the basic skills required are still pretty much the same.

                .

                This is exactly the point of the article, the fact that the pendulum has swung again.

                League is increasing its money on offer whereas Union are reducing it.

                It is a good place to be for Rugby League.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pass the Ball View Post
                  This is exactly the point of the article, the fact that the pendulum has swung again.

                  League is increasing its money on offer whereas Union are reducing it.

                  It is a good place to be for Rugby League.
                  Yeah I know. I'm sure thats why Mr O'Neill turned up to the Wallaby camp yesterday. I'm sure he's extremely nervous. He knows that Cooper could be the thin end of the wedge and if one goes then others might follow. He also knows that he has a few youngsters on his books who have league backgrounds. Beale is one of them, James O'Conner is another. If the money in union dries up, guys will start leaving in their droves again as they have become accustomed to the big pay days that rugby was giving them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But at the same time, the NRL has loosened its salary cap rules so that players can earn guaranteed third-party payments of up to $300,000 and an unlimited amount from non-club sponsors. Further changes enable clubs to offer cars and players to take advantage of tax breaks for the use of their intellectual property rights.

                    AM I reading this right? so a player can get unlimted funds that do not count under the cap as long as the funds are found from non club sponsors?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ism22 View Post
                      and LEAGUE players, not yawnion players!! 2 Completely different sports, and yawnion players always fail when they move over to league (unless they're Craig Wing... but he's a different story + didn't start on a fat salary.)

                      Nothing against union, but I'm more of a league fan, and don't think cross-code players work all that well regardless of which direction they travel unless they have prior experience and go at their own will.

                      For example Ryan Cross was one of our biggest losses to union... not now, but I would have liked to have seen us keep him. He's still one of our highest point scorers ever and has had some cracking union form. Wonder why he never gets a mention? Dell, Rogers, Lote and Tahu got paid squillions + failed...
                      Do you realise we signed Cross from Union in the first place?
                      ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Third party arrangements....

                        Originally posted by Headless Chook View Post
                        http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l...817-128i7.html

                        Relaxed NRL salary cap rules help Parramatta launch raid for Quade BRAD WALTER
                        August 18, 2010

                        ANALYSIS

                        It has been well known for some time in league circles that Quade Cooper was interested in switching codes, but it was not until recent changes to the salary cap rules that NRL clubs have been in a position to make him the first Wallabies recruit since Garrick Morgan joined the South Queensland Crushers in 1995.

                        With corporate support for the 15-man code in Australia dwindling, the ARU has decided that the big-money contracts afforded to the likes of Lote Tuqiri and Matt Giteau are now a thing of the past and want to put the country's top players on largely incentive-based contracts whereby their income is supplemented by Test match appearances.

                        But at the same time, the NRL has loosened its salary cap rules so that players can earn guaranteed third-party payments of up to $300,000 and an unlimited amount from non-club sponsors. Further changes enable clubs to offer cars and players to take advantage of tax breaks for the use of their intellectual property rights.

                        As a result, Cooper will be able to earn more than $850,000 per year if he accepts Parramatta's three-year offer whereas the deal tabled by the ARU guarantees the Wallabies playmaker just $360,000 per year.

                        While the offer represents a $100,000 increase on Cooper's current rugby deal, it is less than half the money that Giteau - the player Cooper supplanted for the Australian No.10 jersey - receives, but the ARU can no longer afford such lucrative contracts.

                        Coincidentally, it was the ARU's role in blocking a possible move by Cooper from the Queensland Reds to the Western Force - where a $110,000 ceiling salary Australian Super 14s franchises are permitted to pay players would have been topped up by third-party deals from Perth businesses - that first prompted him to consider a switch to league.

                        Officials from other NRL clubs yesterday told the Herald they had been sounded out about their interest in Cooper a month ago, and after missing out on Melbourne halfback Cooper Cronk the Eels opened negotiations with the Wallabies five-eighth last week.

                        Cooper had wanted to join good mates David Pocock and James O'Connor at the Force, but the QRU is jointly administered by the ARU after suffering financial problems earlier this year. The 22-year-old is the Reds' biggest drawcard so he could not be allowed to leave for the riches on offer in Perth.

                        Apart from his $110,000 Super rugby contract, Cooper receives a car and accommodation allowance from the QRU that takes his deal with the Reds to about $150,000. He has signed with the QRU for a further two years but that is subject to his finalising a deal with the ARU, which pays him $110,000 and has offered to increase that to $210,000 next year.

                        But with the NRL having recently doubled the marquee player allowance for each club from $150,000 to $300,000, the Eels have at least $150,000 they can offer him in guaranteed third-party sponsorship deals with club sponsors on top of his base contract. In addition, Parramatta officials have told the Herald that other corporate backers are lining up to do deals with Cooper if he signs with the club and it is now believed he could earn up to $1 million by making the switch.

                        Such deals enabled the Broncos to snare Greg Inglis from Melbourne last week on a $300,000 playing contract and it was revealed that Justin Hodges is on the same money, while captain Darren Lockyer is listed at $250,000 under the salary cap and Sam Thaiday at $240,000.



                        After reading this, it got me thinking that we must have some room to move under the salary cap. I wonder if we're actually looking at chasing anybody, whether it be a UK based player such as Jamie Graham, or if we are keeping our powder try and looking to tie up our existing players on longer term deals. Maybe after next years rugby world cup, we might look at a Kurtley Beale type aquisition as a replacement for Miniciello. Any thoughts?
                        It's a well known fact that the Broncos have a group of businessman called The Thoroughbreds who provide financial assistance (non club sponsors)by "topping up" players contracts to keep them at the club - bona fide by the salary cap auditors. After reading the above SMH it would seem Parramatta have similar financial backing....good luck to them.

                        Well it got me wondering about us. It's always reported we have/had a board comprising astute and successful businessman but if the crunch comes, i wonder if we have corporate backing to attract/keep players.

                        I'm not an advocate for paying ridiculous $$ but if for example a situation arose whereby Souffs and us were vying for the services of James Graham i'd be anticipating Uncle Nick or Bouris to enlist the financial assistance of their corporate buddies.

                        Does anyone know if we indeed have third party non sponsors involved with the club??
                        p.s If so, no need to name them. I wouldn't want to give any ammunition to Rothfuk or Spread'em Bekkie .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ale le coq View Post
                          But at the same time, the NRL has loosened its salary cap rules so that players can earn guaranteed third-party payments of up to $300,000 and an unlimited amount from non-club sponsors. Further changes enable clubs to offer cars and players to take advantage of tax breaks for the use of their intellectual property rights.

                          AM I reading this right? so a player can get unlimted funds that do not count under the cap as long as the funds are found from non club sponsors?

                          Correct.. What this does is give the Bronco's an unfair leg up.. They have players receiving cash payments from an organisation (or group of businessmen) called the thoroughbreds. They are not officially connected to the Bronco's but only really exist to keep players in Brisbane playing for the Bronco's. Their squad is probably on at least 2 million more than the salary cap given the amounts that players like Lockyer, Thaiday, Inglis and Hodges have included in the cap.

                          Sydney clubs have 9 clubs with which to compete with for corporate support out of a population of almost 5 million.. The Bronco's are the only club in a city of 2 million. Brisbane pride itself as being called the capital of League in this country. Strangely for a city with this self appointed title, they are only deemed able to be big enough to support one NRL team.

                          The Crushers were there but News killed them off and the Bronco's were granted an exclusivity clause in their license for the years after Super league. One that has now expired. However don't expect a rush to appoint another team in Brisbane in the near future given whom their major shareholder is and who would see an impact to the margins the Bronco's receive if there was any competition.
                          ...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ale le coq View Post
                            But at the same time, the NRL has loosened its salary cap rules so that players can earn guaranteed third-party payments of up to $300,000 and an unlimited amount from non-club sponsors. Further changes enable clubs to offer cars and players to take advantage of tax breaks for the use of their intellectual property rights.

                            AM I reading this right? so a player can get unlimted funds that do not count under the cap as long as the funds are found from non club sponsors?
                            Only if whatever club that player goes to dosen't affect the deal, for eg. if a player wanted to go to the Titans and was offered a third party deal but ended up coming to us and the deal wasn't affected or cancelled because of the change of clubs it doesn't have a limit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Pelican View Post
                              Only if whatever club that player goes to dosen't affect the deal, for eg. if a player wanted to go to the Titans and was offered a third party deal but ended up coming to us and the deal wasn't affected or cancelled because of the change of clubs it doesn't have a limit.
                              What???...

                              Comment

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