Finally new technology to tell weather it is a forward pass

[Guest]

Rugby league has got its video referees to judge offside, foul play, grounding of the football and just about everything else - except for forward passes.

Now one of Australia's leading sports technology companies, GPSports Systems, is developing cutting-edge software that will ensure an accurate ruling on forward passes from next season.

A micro chip and battery (the size of small finger nail) is included in the layering of Steeden footballs for NRL use only. A signal is sent via satellite to computer grid in the video referee's box within a quarter of a second.

A computer alarm or beep will sound if the ball is propelled forward from a player's hands - not for passes that have been directed backwards but float forward. The video referees will alert on-field officials in a process that takes just a few seconds and will not interfere or slow down the run of play.

However, he did say: "I can confirm we'll have a positional system for the football that will get down to a centimetre for accuracy and reliability of where the ball moves on the field. Our staff have been working on it for some time because it has to be robust enough to handle kicking, passing, impact in tackles and players falling on it.

"It's something we will take to the NRL during the off-season.

"There is no question it will help on the adjudication of forward passes."

Referees boss Bill Harrigan concedes at least six tries have been allowed this season from forward passes and that others have been called back from legitimate passes.

One blatant miss - when Wests Tigers captain Robbie Farah passed one metre forward to Blake Ayshford in Gosford last Friday night - cost Manly the game and possibly a $100,000 bonus that comes with the minor premiership.

"Considering the number of tries scored, it's a small percentage, " Harrigan said.

"But if anyone can show us technology that is going to help our guys, I'm all for it. Umpires and referees in other sports like cricket and tennis are getting help all the time."

A spokesperson for Steeden, whose footballs are made in India, said manufacturing a football with a sensor was a possibility and said the company looked forward to having talks with GPS experts.

"It's definitely something we could look in to," brand and marketing manager Leah Curtis said. "It's something that could be included in the layering of the ball. The mechanics would have to ensure it didn't affect the performance of the football."

Harrigan said he was looking forward to being shown the new technology that could be trialled in the All Stars match in February and other pre-season matches.

"If this sort of technology was available and it takes pressure off the referees, I'd be all for it," he said. "If it can happen without impacting on the continuity of the game, it's something I'd love to look at."

NRL chief executive David Gallop said of the plan: "If it works then we would consider it - tracking devices used in cricket and tennis are terrific. Anything that is going to help our game and help our referees is worth looking at."

[Guest]

Without knowing the player's speed it will end up being nothing more than an estimate which some players will learn to exploit.

[Guest]

Without knowing the player's speed it will end up being nothing more than an estimate which some players will learn to exploit.

i dont no, i think that ill will be good. cause the refs cant see it anyways

[Guest]

Without knowing the player's speed it will end up being nothing more than an estimate which some players will learn to exploit.

Technologically this is viable.

The players speed will be known as the ball will be travelling at the same speed as the player while they are running and the ball speed is being tracked. If you know the player speed at the time of release and the ball speed after the time of release (speed in the forward direction that is) you can adjudicte on the pass.

If a player is smart enough to change the action of his pass to simulate a different foot speed at the time of release in order to get the advantage of getting away with the slightly forward pass, then his is much smarter than the average footballer and deserves the advantage!

[Guest]

The ball is moving at the speed of the player's hands, not the player's torso. It would be possible to propel arms forward and flick wrists as ball is being released. The device wouldn't have a clue whether the ball is travelling forwards or backwards relative to the player.

I think you underestimate the intelligence and skill levels of many NRL players.

[Guest]

The ball is moving at the speed of the player's hands, not the player's torso. It would be possible to propel arms forward and flick wrists as ball is being released. The device wouldn't have a clue whether the ball is travelling forwards or backwards relative to the player.

I think you underestimate the intelligence and skill levels of many NRL players.

Maybe I do! This would only give a very limited advantage though and the only instance I can see this being coached or practiced is passing from dummy half. The key to any rule though, is being able to rule on it consistently and without bias. If such a passing technique allows a dummy half to throw every pass 10cm forward, then I am fine with that as every team will be able to exploit it equally.

In general play, I don't think players purposely throw the ball forward or purposely overrun passes - it is a mistake. Look at Carney's pass to Anasta. This is the type of situation where such technology would ensure clear, unbiased ruling. These are the rulings that drive players and fans nuts.

[Guest]

Oh ok lets just analyse the game to death so that it becomes the boring farce that is NFL......thats where we are heading.

Mistakes made by refs etc are all part of the game. Why are we now so obsessed with trying to make the game perfect.

I applaud football for keeping their sport pure.

[bigben]

what about a fluro ball that flashes red when its passed forward then its obvious to all instead of going up to the video ref..but when it's kicked forward it flashes yellow indicating its been kicked forward instead of being passed forward.also a device in the footy that can detect a 40/20 not sure what colour for that one..also a ball that if rolled backwards flashes blue and if rolled forward flashes orange,so now we can bring back proper scrums, the ref will know by the colour of the flashing ball if it has been fed fairly.thoughts ???

[Guest]

Oh ok lets just analyse the game to death so that it becomes the boring farce that is NFL......thats where we are heading.

Mistakes made by refs etc are all part of the game. Why are we now so obsessed with trying to make the game perfect.

I applaud football for keeping their sport pure.

With the money involved in sport, the push is always going to be to take the subjectivity/potential for bias out of the game.

It would also reduce the threads on this site by half......

[supermario]

With the money involved in sport, the push is always going to be to take the subjectivity/potential for bias out of the game.

It would also reduce the threads on this site by half......

I am opposed to any technology that would reduce the traffic and numerous consipiracy threads on this site !!!

[Guest]

The ball is moving at the speed of the player's hands, not the player's torso. It would be possible to propel arms forward and flick wrists as ball is being released. The device wouldn't have a clue whether the ball is travelling forwards or backwards relative to the player.

I think you underestimate the intelligence and skill levels of many NRL players.

No, you wouldn't have a clue professor

Find out some more info about the thing before you descend into whinge mode

[player 1]

Great news. More technology. The only improvement I might suggest is to add another microchip to the Steeden that senses overactivity of the sympathetic nervous system, as used in a polygraph test (increased heart rate, blood pressure, sweating, dilation of pupils), in the human being holding the football. If positive, this would suggest deception is taking place in the mind of the holder of the footy, and this could be used as proof the player in possession has guilty knowledge that his club is secretly breaching the salary cap. The guilty player's team could then be immediately disqualified from the rest of that year's competition.

We may need a little extra equipment, such as ECG leads on all the players chests, invasive intravascular monitoring with cannulas placed in all of the players' arteries, and possibly some EEG leads placed on their scalps, but with the aid of bluetooth technology I am sure all of this would not be too bulky.

[bigben]

We've all heard of Mr Ed the talking horse, {of course of course}what if technology could come up with a talking football. the microchip detects the ball has traveled forward and screams out forward pass, and repeats it till the ref takes action.or" Ball stolen in tackle".or "player never touched me when playing the ball."

[stephenj]

all this needs to be right because of the amount of money now bet on games, take away betting, no problems, can it apply to knock ons too!

[Yak]

Tony, do you know where we could find more info. Every article about it actually avoids saying how it works and simply says it uses a microchip. I would imagine the only way to accurately measure release angle is by applying a formula that normalizes the inertial forces that act upon the ball as soon as it is released. If this is the case, only the forward velocity of the ball immediately prior to release would be used (not the players velocity). So take a starting and finishing coordinate (would be a fraction of a second after release to avoid the effects of any wind resistance) then use the ball's velocity just prior to release to normalize for "natural momentum". This would make it as if those forces that make a ball float forward when its thrown backwards do not exist.*

A couple of things I'm struggling to understand is how GPS technology knows the time of release. And also, why would they put the microchip on the outside layering of the ball and not in the centre. Any rotation on the ball before or after release will affect where the microchip is positioned in a forwards/backwards direction. Hopefully they are at least smart enough to put it at the end of the ball or symmetrically one on either side and find the centre point that way.*