Searching for our halves!

[dice]

I don’t think size is the issue, we won back to back premierships with Keary & Cronk.

Not like Cronk had a massive kicking game either.

Cronk had a longer kicking game than Keary (or Walker). We also occasionally called on Trell to do the extra-long kicks from deep within our own territory.

Defensively, Cronk was also a better defender, and we had Maubs and Cordner which were more capable of protecting our halves than the current crop of Sitili and Crichton. Although that partially fixes itself with Radley to second row.

Having said that, imo our biggest issue is the lack of risk calculation with our attack despite our atrocious record against grinding teams like Storm and Panthers. I would like to see us put that shit away for half the season and get used to winning in the forwards, defence, and game-management. If Walker has a sulk about not playing touch footy then let him leave.

[Rooster_6]

In my opinion the biggest issue with our halves pairing over the last three years has been balance.

The natural progression for most halves as they mature and their speed/running game deteriorates with age is to use their experience to help organise and steer their side around the park. We’ve seen this with more natural ball runners like Thurston, Shaun Johnson, Benji Marshall and Darren Lockyer. We even saw James Maloney play this role for a young Nathan Cleary in his time at the Panthers. This was the plan for Luke Keary in 2022 when he took the number 7 jersey, Robinson was very clear prior to the start of the season that Keary would wear the 7 and would be the primary organiser. This would allow 19yo Sam Walker to play 5/8 and just play his natural game and create points for the side whilst he found his feet in first grade.

After Round 14 in 2022, Luke Keary took a serious head knock and sat out of the game for just over a month. We were 7wins, 7 losses at that stage, when he retuned in Round 19 he would move back into the number 6 jumper and Sam Walker took the number 7 jumper. We won our next 7 games straight with him in the 6 jumper to scrape into the top 8.

I remember there being a lot of excitement on here at the time that Keary had moved back into the 6 jumper, back onto his favoured left edge and that was the trigger for the 8 wins in a row (One before Keary returned in round 19). And whilst it was hard to disagree that in the short term it was an effective solution I don’t believe it was the best long term solution for the club as Walker was not ready to be an organising halfback at such a young age especially considering it was never his natural game coming through the juniors.

In my opinion there needed to be a decision made after 2022, either 1) Tell Luke Keary he’s going to be the halfback, regardless of whether he likes it or not, 2) Sign a more natural organising half to play with Sam Walker whilst he continues to develop or 3) take the risk of developing Sam Walker in the lower grades knowing that you might create some discontent and another club might come through and snap him up.

This has been my biggest criticism of Robinson as I don’t think he handled this situation well and only exacerbated it by signing a dummy half (Brandon Smith) on the back of a 2021 season which was the greatest anomaly of attacking football seen in the NRL era. Signing Brandon Smith on top of Keary and Walker was like adding another boat load of fireworks to what was already the world’s greatest firework display.

Robinson didn’t end up taking any of the 3 options initially to begin 2023, he started with Walker as his 7, Keary as his 6 just the way he ended 2022. However after 7 rounds he doubled down on his options, he not only told Keary he was going to be the halfback and to suck it up but he also dropped Walker to the lower grades to develop his organising game. The rest as we all know is history, Walker would suffer a grade 1 ACL tear that would keep him out of playing any meaningful reserve grade footy and wouldn’t return to the first grade side until 20 weeks later where he would play the remaining 4 games of the season.

Unlike some I don’t believe for a second Robinson can be blamed for the injury, but I am critical of him for not making a decision earlier on a problem that I have no doubt he would’ve been aware of. Joey Manu & Drew Hutchison were never good enough plan B and plan C solutions and I think his loyalty to Luke Keary may have clouded his decision making (that may be unfair as we are not privy to all the inside dealings of the club but that is my assessment front he outside looking in).

2024 started a little bit differently, he still didn’t go for any of the options I perceived to be realistic but instead he just doubled down on the most overpowered attacking spine in the game and signed the best attacking coach in the game as his assistant in in an attempt to overload our attack and blow teams off the park with hope that Walker’s organisational skills have developed to a level where we can manage us through some tight games. I feel sorry for Robinson as he never got to see how this would play out in the finals series given he lost his 7 and 9 weeks before the finals series kicked off. The harshest of blows. What the finals series did show though is that when we weren’t able to control the contest with our attack, against the top sides we lacked the adaptability to lean on the other parts of our game to get us through the contest.

I have found Keary’s reluctance to play 7 at the back end of his career extremely frustrating, I loved him as a player and during 2018-2021 I thought there was a reasonable argument to be made that he was the best 5/8 in the game during that period of time. But I see his departure as a blessing, I think it allows the team to move on and I am already a believer that the Smith/Walker combo from a balance perspective is going to be much better for the overall benefit of the team and I am extremely optimistic that plan B (Toby Rodwell) will end up being our preferred option in the next 2-3 years as he is the most talented half I’ve seen come through our pathways.

I believe the search for the right halves will take 1-3 seasons but I’m confident the right options already exist within the club with Walker, Smith, Elliott, Rodwell & Metcalfe the club has very good options. It’s just a matter of patience… frustratingly in my opinion a decision that has been delayed by Luke Keary’s reluctance to evolve and Trent Robinson’s loyalty to Keary.

[The Lip]

Welcome Mitch Moses then

think i'd rather his halves partner in Dylan Brown - MM is a drama Queen by the looks of his on feild antics blowing up at his own players way too much etc

[Steggles]

In my opinion the biggest issue with our halves pairing over the last three years has been balance.

The natural progression for most halves as they mature and their speed/running game deteriorates with age is to use their experience to help organise and steer their side around the park. We’ve seen this with more natural ball runners like Thurston, Shaun Johnson, Benji Marshall and Darren Lockyer. We even saw James Maloney play this role for a young Nathan Cleary in his time at the Panthers. This was the plan for Luke Keary in 2022 when he took the number 7 jersey, Robinson was very clear prior to the start of the season that Keary would wear the 7 and would be the primary organiser. This would allow 19yo Sam Walker to play 5/8 and just play his natural game and create points for the side whilst he found his feet in first grade.

After Round 14 in 2022, Luke Keary took a serious head knock and sat out of the game for just over a month. We were 7wins, 7 losses at that stage, when he retuned in Round 19 he would move back into the number 6 jumper and Sam Walker took the number 7 jumper. We won our next 7 games straight with him in the 6 jumper to scrape into the top 8.

I remember there being a lot of excitement on here at the time that Keary had moved back into the 6 jumper, back onto his favoured left edge and that was the trigger for the 8 wins in a row (One before Keary returned in round 19). And whilst it was hard to disagree that in the short term it was an effective solution I don’t believe it was the best long term solution for the club as Walker was not ready to be an organising halfback at such a young age especially considering it was never his natural game coming through the juniors.

In my opinion there needed to be a decision made after 2022, either 1) Tell Luke Keary he’s going to be the halfback, regardless of whether he likes it or not, 2) Sign a more natural organising half to play with Sam Walker whilst he continues to develop or 3) take the risk of developing Sam Walker in the lower grades knowing that you might create some discontent and another club might come through and snap him up.

This has been my biggest criticism of Robinson as I don’t think he handled this situation well and only exacerbated it by signing a dummy half (Brandon Smith) on the back of a 2021 season which was the greatest anomaly of attacking football seen in the NRL era. Signing Brandon Smith on top of Keary and Walker was like adding another boat load of fireworks to what was already the world’s greatest firework display.

Robinson didn’t end up taking any of the 3 options initially to begin 2023, he started with Walker as his 7, Keary as his 6 just the way he ended 2022. However after 7 rounds he doubled down on his options, he not only told Keary he was going to be the halfback and to suck it up but he also dropped Walker to the lower grades to develop his organising game. The rest as we all know is history, Walker would suffer a grade 1 ACL tear that would keep him out of playing any meaningful reserve grade footy and wouldn’t return to the first grade side until 20 weeks later where he would play the remaining 4 games of the season.

Unlike some I don’t believe for a second Robinson can be blamed for the injury, but I am critical of him for not making a decision earlier on a problem that I have no doubt he would’ve been aware of. Joey Manu & Drew Hutchison were never good enough plan B and plan C solutions and I think his loyalty to Luke Keary may have clouded his decision making (that may be unfair as we are not privy to all the inside dealings of the club but that is my assessment front he outside looking in).

2024 started a little bit differently, he still didn’t go for any of the options I perceived to be realistic but instead he just doubled down on the most overpowered attacking spine in the game and signed the best attacking coach in the game as his assistant in in an attempt to overload our attack and blow teams off the park with hope that Walker’s organisational skills have developed to a level where we can manage us through some tight games. I feel sorry for Robinson as he never got to see how this would play out in the finals series given he lost his 7 and 9 weeks before the finals series kicked off. The harshest of blows. What the finals series did show though is that when we weren’t able to control the contest with our attack, against the top sides we lacked the adaptability to lean on the other parts of our game to get us through the contest.

I have found Keary’s reluctance to play 7 at the back end of his career extremely frustrating, I loved him as a player and during 2018-2021 I thought there was a reasonable argument to be made that he was the best 5/8 in the game during that period of time. But I see his departure as a blessing, I think it allows the team to move on and I am already a believer that the Smith/Walker combo from a balance perspective is going to be much better for the overall benefit of the team and I am extremely optimistic that plan B (Toby Rodwell) will end up being our preferred option in the next 2-3 years as he is the most talented half I’ve seen come through our pathways.

I believe the search for the right halves will take 1-3 seasons but I’m confident the right options already exist within the club with Walker, Smith, Elliott, Rodwell & Metcalfe the club has very good options. It’s just a matter of patience… frustratingly in my opinion a decision that has been delayed by Luke Keary’s reluctance to evolve and Trent Robinson’s loyalty to Keary.

A very insightful analysis of our halves situation over the last few years; thanks for sharing your thoughts and I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve been on Luke Keary’s case for the last two years because it was abundantly clear that he could no longer deliver what he once could and he failed to evolve as you’ve mentioned. I don’t mind Brandon Smith at all, but your right in saying that we’d have been better off with a less flashy hooker who just focused on good service and rock solid defence (like Friendy) rather than another layer of attacking flair.

I think Robbo is a good coach, but all coaches have weaknesses and Trent is no different, with his biggest blind spot being his failure to act when his more senior players are failing or selecting on form; blind loyalty. Keary is probably the best example, but there are others. I need to keep reminding myself however that he’s also had some atrocious luck with injuries which sometimes forces him down a path, but I think he could be bringing in our youth a bit quicker than he does.

I hope the Walker/Smith combo works, but we’ll probably have to wait a year or so to truly find out given Walker’s injury, assuming he stays with us.

[King Salvo]

Did Luke Keary say he didn't want to play 7 ?

https://www.roosters.com.au/news/202...shift-in-2021/

Not many players can kick 50 metres plus though - It's what you do in the previous tackles before the kick tackle that counts- If struggling to make yardage then your last tackle kick will always be under pressure to make up for the lack of yardage made in the set.

It's the same story you need to be good at the basics - high set completions and low errors and be disciplined for 80 minutes week in week out

Roosters stats in some of these key areas in 2024.

• 5th in set completions (usually down /around the bottom in that stat) - 80% completions rate - Panthers 3rd and Storm 7th
• 4th in Errors behind Sharks / Cowboys and Broncos - Penrith 10th and Storm 16th
• 1st in Handing errors - Storm 8th and Penrith 10th
• 1st in Penalties conceded - 189 - Sharks next on 164 - Penrith 3rd - 154 and Storm 8th- 135
• 5th in Missed tackles - Panthers 10th and Storm 16th

The focus will need to be on improving those stats - Not sure what the attack will be like in 2025 and whether points will flow or not - so improving the defence will also be a priority if points scoring will be somewhat limited in 2025.

Need to be an 80 minute team - impossible to be at your best week in week out - need to be a 7 and above team as a minimum.

[TumutChook]

Souths snagged him.

Blokes massively over rated & will be shown up in the NRL. He struggled in the retirement league this year & if you don’t want midgets in your halves you wouldn’t sign this bloke. Keary is taller & the same weight, yet everyone thinks he’s too small.
Many a good judge saying Souths stuffed this one up & it will be shown to be true. Pom’s just don’t produce quality halves very often.

[TumutChook]

The so called grooming and the romanticism attached with experienced players to guide the up and comers really hasn’t worked nor did I buy into it. Walker and Keary combo a fail in my opinion, dear Luke battled on too long. So the question is now, is Walker a less than a 100 gamer to nurse Sandon? Radley and Butcher failed to impress me in 2024. Radley like Collins has lost his speed, maybe fatherhood and a lack of sleep just like Joey M.

And that’s been my big question mark on Robbo & the club as I simply don’t see them being ruthless enough. Keary was gone 4 years ago yet we keep him on & even offered a new deal purely on sentimental value, not on his craft in that time. Same thing happening with Teddy at the moment & his future. Had a great year & by no means dropped off, but if he wants a new longer deal past this one he needs to be told he will not ge guaranteed FB & certainly on a reduced deal after his current one ends. I just think we made mistakes & have over paid massively for guys who are over rated, I.e Smith,JS,

[TumutChook]

Lewis Dodd

Glad South’s got him, he’s average & signing another midget smaller than Keary to replace him wouldn’t excite me.

[TumutChook]

Two small halves and a lack of a long kicking game is a massive concern. We need a big body Six like Freddie or Brendan Hall. We also have other problems.TBH I don’t think we would have troubled the storm or panthers even with our full side. Our forwards got flogged in the QF and prelim and we are losing Jazz. Plus we have an inexperienced backline next season aside from Tupes. Trouble ahead.

I agree with you as Panthers & Storm still made us their bitches when Walker & Smith were playing. We have other problems & Collins was a major disappointment where he did the little things, defused grabbers etc but never made yards, broke lines or even bent the line. Lenui is a mile off being a starter & isnt/wont be a 10th of JWH. There was loads of talk about his agro etc but he was a powderpuff in any game that counted pretty much.

[bondi paul]

And that’s been my big question mark on Robbo & the club as I simply don’t see them being ruthless enough. Keary was gone 4 years ago yet we keep him on & even offered a new deal purely on sentimental value, not on his craft in that time. Same thing happening with Teddy at the moment & his future. Had a great year & by no means dropped off, but if he wants a new longer deal past this one he needs to be told he will not ge guaranteed FB & certainly on a reduced deal after his current one ends. I just think we made mistakes & have over paid massively for guys who are over rated, I.e Smith,JS,

Loyalty is admirable but not when you are blinded by it, I was puzzled with how Robbo refused to pick any of the rookies the following season after that horrific run of injuries as the nobody’s performed admirably and surely this may have caused dissent amongst some. Besides the romanticism I spoke of in my previous post I’ve also never been charmed by the old boy network Robbo has other than the recent appointment of Aubo as head of football operations. The diff between Robbo and Bellamy is ruthlessness whilst Cleary being a smiling assassin, Cleary and Robbo a dynamic thought based on the old saying if you can’t beat them join them. A hard edge at the club won’t happen until Fitzy returns as head coach should he choose.