NRL The Sinking Ship and Souths

[Thirteen]

For me definitely one of the most disappointing seasons since I started following in 1987. I can't believe I am saying this as we did finish on top of the table.
I just had so much expectation of seeing quality football and seeing the team grow after what we saw last year. But it just didn't happen. There were few games this year where we saw quality football/entertainment. It may be a long time before we have such a great opportunity to go back-to-back.

[Vasco]

This parade today is a little over the top.

It's fine for one team towns, not for one of several teams in a town.

[Kingsgrove-Loiner]

This parade today is a little over the top.

It's fine for one team towns, not for one of several teams in a town.

There should be a big turnout - not many of their supporters will be at work.....

[Johnny.]

There should be a big turnout - not many of their supporters will be at work.....

Yes. Indeed.

Meanwhile the NRL is "investigating" Michael Maguire overruling the team doctor regarding Sam Burgess' depressed cheek fracture.

I've asked about it and the back page of the Telerag the other day was accurate when it said he could lose his eye.

[TDK]

Not an exact science, but you will note that in the three seasons where the NRL were intent on turning it into a lottery by speeding up the play-the-ball, the winner coincided with the best penalty stats.

In the normal course of events it is usually the worst offenders that win or go close to winning. Which kind of proves a previous point that many of you doubted, many teams intentionally risk a penalty to ensure their defensive line is set.


Grand finalist penalty win rankings

2014 Souths 1st - Bulldogs 13th
2013 Roosters 16th - Manly 13th
2012 Storm 8th - Bulldogs 16th
2011 Manly 8th - Warriors 11th
2010 Saints 1st - Roosters 16th
2009 Storm 9th - Eels 6th
2008 Manly 9th - Storm 13th
2007 Storm 12th - Manly 6th
2006 Broncos 6th - Storm 15th
2005 Tigers 1st - Cowboys 5th

What the stats do show is that Saints and Souths were the least penalised with most penalties for in their premiership year. The reason for this can be linked to their coaches and coaching style. Bennett and Maguire played a simple mistake free game that focused on defence. Both teams were also the best defensive teams in those particular years. I think these stats contributed to them being the least penalised along with being the most disciplined.

[Andrew Walker]

What the stats do show is that Saints and Souths were the least penalised with most penalties for in their premiership year. The reason for this can be linked to their coaches and coaching style. Bennett and Maguire played a simple mistake free game that focused on defence. Both teams were also the best defensive teams in those particular years. I think these stats contributed to them being the least penalised along with being the most disciplined.

How do you explain us being 16th and the best defensive team last year ?

[BUDDY]

What the stats do show is that Saints and Souths were the least penalised with most penalties for in their premiership year. The reason for this can be linked to their coaches and coaching style. Bennett and Maguire played a simple mistake free game that focused on defence. Both teams were also the best defensive teams in those particular years. I think these stats contributed to them being the least penalised along with being the most disciplined.

TOK how do you explain how Souths were the first team in 25 years to get over 200 penalties with the second best some 35 penalties behind?
Teams play the same teams more or less. Did teams become ill disciplined when they played Souths this year?
I believe penalty averages are down on last year yet Souths received over 30% extra to what they received last year.
I don't have the stats but I would be interested to see how many back to back penalties they got this year compared to others.
With that much extra possession you would agree that it is far easier to win games. Possession and momentum is what usually wins you games. It is also fair to say that the opposition can't really score without the ball so maybe that defensive record would not look so positive.

So say they didn't get the luxury of having those extra penalties and countless back to back penalties, you would have to say that they would have struggled to make the top 4. And 8th position was only 3 games off them.

[player 1]

TOK how do you explain how Souths were the first team in 25 years to get over 200 penalties with the second best some 35 penalties behind?
Teams play the same teams more or less. Did teams become ill disciplined when they played Souths this year?
I believe penalty averages are down on last year yet Souths received over 30% extra to what they received last year.
I don't have the stats but I would be interested to see how many back to back penalties they got this year compared to others.
With that much extra possession you would agree that it is far easier to win games. Possession and momentum is what usually wins you games. It is also fair to say that the opposition can't really score without the ball so maybe that defensive record would not look so positive.

So say they didn't get the luxury of having those extra penalties and countless back to back penalties, you would have to say that they would have struggled to make the top 4. And 8th position was only 3 games off them.

The penalty stats are ludicrous and not explainable by "different coaching styles" or "simple game plans", although teams coached to milk penalties certainly comes into it. Souths were unchallenged in this area.

As one poster said in another thread, Souths may have actually have been good enough to win it this year without the tremendous leg up they received by the officials all year long. Now we'll never know.

As for Easts, we did rarely see the best of them this year. They certainly looked exhausted in the second half against Souths - facing a 6-1 penalty count (rare in finals) and having been raped by the refs for 2 whole years will do that to all but the most invulnerably perfect footy sides, which we weren't (unlike 2013).

Had the Casty try against panthers made it onto the scoreboard we would have had a much needed week off and I believe Souths would have had a real test in the GF.

But never let the truth get in the way of a street parade.

[mightyrooster]

Yes. Indeed.

Meanwhile the NRL is "investigating" Michael Maguire overruling the team doctor regarding Sam Burgess' depressed cheek fracture.

I've asked about it and the back page of the Telerag the other day was accurate when it said he could lose his eye.

AT the risk of being labelled the shocking term 'a conspiracy theorist' how is it Burgess is allowed to stay on the field with blood pouring out of his nose and eye? Where is the ref ordering the blood bin? And yet at the first sight of blood with one of the dogs players (can't remember who), the ref orders him off. Where are the comentators ,mentioning the need for SB to go in the blood bin (let alone get off and get a potentially serious injury checked)??

[Spirit of 66]

What the stats do show is that Saints and Souths were the least penalised with most penalties for in their premiership year. The reason for this can be linked to their coaches and coaching style. Bennett and Maguire played a simple mistake free game that focused on defence. Both teams were also the best defensive teams in those particular years. I think these stats contributed to them being the least penalised along with being the most disciplined.

Some history that seems to cast doubt on your "coaches and coaching style" explanation... Below are figures which highlight the difference between penalties for and against for the last 10 years. The first column is Souths and the second is Roosters:
SSyd Roosters
+44 v -59 (2014)
+10 v -62
+23 v -26
+13 v -17
+13 v -46
+23 v -50
+28 v -37
+20 v 0
-22 v -19
+10 v -5

To invert your logic, if I were a coach and could be confident that I would be getting many more penalties than I would be conceding, I think that would influence my coaching style. I'd be opting for a safety first, bash up the middle style of play where I just wait for the inevitable free yardage delivered on a plate by the referees.

[Guest]

AT the risk of being labelled the shocking term 'a conspiracy theorist' how is it Burgess is allowed to stay on the field with blood pouring out of his nose and eye? Where is the ref ordering the blood bin? And yet at the first sight of blood with one of the dogs players (can't remember who), the ref orders him off. Where are the comentators ,mentioning the need for SB to go in the blood bin (let alone get off and get a potentially serious injury checked)??

Exactly right. I also found it hard to believe that he wasn't even taken off under the concussion rules.

[theGman]

Where are the comentators ,mentioning the need for SB to go in the blood bin (let alone get off and get a potentially serious injury checked)??

They were entirely mesmerised by the entire fairytale experience. Jism all over their commentary box.
Heaven help us should the Gummies ever reach a GF

[theGman]

Where are the comentators ,mentioning the need for SB to go in the blood bin (let alone get off and get a potentially serious injury checked)??

They were entirely mesmerised by the entire fairytale experience. Jism all over their commentary box.
Heaven help us should the Gummies ever reach a GF

[Arties Pie]

For mine Manly were THE team for nearly most of the season but I think all the dramas caught up with them and footy went on the backburner to alot of the personal crap, The Storm also had a poor year compared to where we usually see them and we played a very small handful of very good games mixed in with alot of mediocre to poor ones and as inconsistent as we were we still won the Minor Premiership suprising to be sure but it shows the standard of the competition this year. If the teams listed above played to their potential I think we would have seen a very different result to the final series. On saying that I also believe as much as I dislike his game (Grubbiness) the Bunnies owe Burgess alot for their results this year man he played some minutes.

[Guest]

Both the Daily Telegraph and the SMH are all over this Burgess situation now. Seriously, how were they allowed to break the rules so blatantly? **** the NRL