The Bigger Picture

[Guest]

Is Josh Duggan A New South Welshman Or Queenslander ? jeez i hope he is a welshman he is the goods tough kid who can take a knock or two or three !!

[elo]

Is Josh Duggan A New South Welshman Or Queenslander ? jeez i hope he is a welshman he is the goods tough kid who can take a knock or two or three !!

Dugan is a New South Welshman and is penciled in at fullback for Country Origin.

[Guest]

The Raiders, at full strength, have a relatively homegrown backline full of very strong talent:

1. Dugan
2. Carney/Milne
3. Monaghan
4. Croker
5. Vidot
6. Campese
7. McCrone (purchased)

But look at it this way - if we did move Anasta to lock, then we too, would have an almost exclusively Roosters-only backline:

1. Minichiello
2. Perrett
3. Kenny-Dowall
4. Graham (purchased)
5. Williamson/Du Plessis/Blair/whoever
6. Carney (purchased)
7. Pearce

Then note the fact that with Minichiello on his last legs, we have youngsters Hughie Stanley, Steve Naughton and Luke Towers waiting in the wings too, all who have not played for other clubs. Also note that Graham, as good as he is, is considered a stop-gap signing while our younger centres develop their games.

[Guest]

They're doing something right that we aren't

Firstly have a look at the size of their nursery...it's huge...don't give me this Canberra has a small population line either as they can draw on a huge rural area all around them...the fact that they aren't smart enough to develop and keep a gun side is their managements fault...they have the same size salary cap as do all the other teams...

You're first post in this thread mainly points out how they have all these home grown juniors and talent and we don't but have to buy them...tell us something we don't know please Mr Troll...

By the way we have some home grown talent on the injured list at the moment otherwise we'd be seeing the likes of Cherro , Symonds & Kennedy on the field along with Mini and Pearce and Aubusson bros...just to name some hoome grown players in case you didn't know...

[melon....]

News Lackie,

Its simple. If you want to look at the Big Picture, you look at 3 to 5 years development of this very young squad. Most will still be around 25-26 in that time frame. We were never going to win a comple a year after we won wood. If we make teh finals this year it would be a massive over achievement. 2011 we will see a better side, and challenge a year after that as real contenders. We still have some crap to offload.

Thats the realistic view.

[Guest]

Here's the bigger picture for the Raiders.

Dugan looks like a superstar (reminds me a lot of the way mini played when he was at the top of his game, doesn't look big but impossible to tackle and a great positional player). Problem for the Raiders is he will probably end up somewhere else.

Crocker is a worse defender than Jennings with less attacking skill. He may develop or he may be exposed once coaches pay a bit of attention to him. Jury out.

Vidot seems strong from what I've seen.

Monas is a great winger...that Furner always plays in the Centres.

Campo is a metaphor for the entire Raiders team. Sometimes he turns up and he is close to unstoppable, sometimes he's a nuffie.

McCrone is purchased and doesn't really offer much.

It's very hard for the Raiders because they devlop great talent to see it picked off by other clubs and they often have to overpay for players.

If they can:

1. keep Dugan;
2. improve Crocker's D; and
3. sort out a decent 7 and 9

The will win a comp. If they pretty much don't do all of those things, they will be "rebuilding" until 2018.

I think the Roosters will do them on the weekend too.

[Guest]

^^^
great post. Agree 100%

[Headless Chook]

Our Under 20's are currently sitting in 4th spot. Our SG Ball have made the finals and if they play to the best of their ability are a realistic chance of winning. Harold Matts missed out.

In comparison, Raiders are sitting in 7th spot in NYC, and missed the finals in both Matts and Ball. I think O'Sullivan is starting to position us nicely for the future, but as somebody else mentioned, this is going to be a 3-5 year process and not something we will see immediate benefits from.

[Guest]

Tongue is an absolute champion, reminds me of Les Hayes.

[Guest]

The Raiders, at full strength, have a relatively homegrown backline full of very strong talent:

1. Dugan
2. Carney/Milne
3. Monaghan
4. Croker
5. Vidot
6. Campese
7. McCrone (purchased)

But look at it this way - if we did move Anasta to lock, then we too, would have an almost exclusively Roosters-only backline:

1. Minichiello
2. Perrett
3. Kenny-Dowall
4. Graham (purchased)
5. Williamson/Du Plessis/Blair/whoever
6. Carney (purchased)
7. Pearce

Then note the fact that with Minichiello on his last legs, we have youngsters Hughie Stanley, Steve Naughton and Luke Towers waiting in the wings too, all who have not played for other clubs. Also note that Graham, as good as he is, is considered a stop-gap signing while our younger centres develop their games.

The Raiders backline is very, very strong there's no disputing that fact. Our backline is strong on it's day but based on form, Williamson nor Blair should be getting a run in first grade. Blair is in the SG Ball side and Williamson hasn't lit up the NYC as I thought he would. I'd like to see Kane Linnett get a run. He has impressed me and I think he'd do very well if given the chance.

[Guest]

Great thread TOK. you cop plenty of stick on here (heralded or not) but you make some strong points. My take on our side:

Here is the side that we have that i see developing:
1. Perrett
2.
3. Blair/Du Plessis/Linnett
4. Williamson/SKD
5. Moeakiola/Naughton
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Myles
9. Jaubs
10.
11. Leilua/Cherrington
12. Cordner
13. Maubs

14. FPN/Kennedy
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

The gaps are the long-term 'holes' as such i see prevalent in our side. With these into perspecitve i think there are 2 key signings we need to make; a strike winger with plenty of speed and a young prop to lead from the front.

In the winger stakes id be looking at micheal gordon from penrith and aku uate in particular. in terms of props id be looking at either tolman or sam rapira.

in the short-term, i think graham does his job as a stop gap in the centres so the only other thing i see scope for apart from the 2 signings above is in the experienced prop stakes. If ryles proves his worth in that role then he should be retained but other options aside from lima are josh perry and brent kite who can both do a pretty tidy job of leading from the front imo

So my side for next year would look something like this:
1. Perrett
2. Gordon
3. Graham
4. SKD/Williamson
5. Naughton/Moeakiola
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Tolman/Rapira
9. Jaubs
10. Kite/Perry
11. Maubs
12. Cherro
13. Myles

14. FPN/Kennedy/Conn
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

Its young and raw but it will develop well. Id also bring james tamou back from NQ for depth in the frontrow. Thoughts

[Guest]

Great thread TOK. you cop plenty of stick on here (heralded or not) but you make some strong points. My take on our side:

Here is the side that we have that i see developing:
1. Perrett
2.
3. Blair/Du Plessis/Linnett
4. Williamson/SKD
5. Moeakiola/Naughton
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Myles
9. Jaubs
10.
11. Leilua/Cherrington
12. Cordner
13. Maubs

14. FPN/Kennedy
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

The gaps are the long-term 'holes' as such i see prevalent in our side. With these into perspecitve i think there are 2 key signings we need to make; a strike winger with plenty of speed and a young prop to lead from the front.

In the winger stakes id be looking at micheal gordon from penrith and aku uate in particular. in terms of props id be looking at either tolman or sam rapira.

in the short-term, i think graham does his job as a stop gap in the centres so the only other thing i see scope for apart from the 2 signings above is in the experienced prop stakes. If ryles proves his worth in that role then he should be retained but other options aside from lima are josh perry and brent kite who can both do a pretty tidy job of leading from the front imo

So my side for next year would look something like this:
1. Perrett
2. Gordon
3. Graham
4. SKD/Williamson
5. Naughton/Moeakiola
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Tolman/Rapira
9. Jaubs
10. Kite/Perry
11. Maubs
12. Cherro
13. Myles

14. FPN/Kennedy/Conn
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

Its young and raw but it will develop well. Id also bring james tamou back from NQ for depth in the frontrow. Thoughts

If only it were that easy. But i do agree we do need a couple of good front rowers. If a team has go forward then the backs are easy to take care of.

[Guest]

Great thread TOK. you cop plenty of stick on here (heralded or not) but you make some strong points. My take on our side:

Here is the side that we have that i see developing:
1. Perrett
2.
3. Blair/Du Plessis/Linnett
4. Williamson/SKD
5. Moeakiola/Naughton
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Myles
9. Jaubs
10.
11. Leilua/Cherrington
12. Cordner
13. Maubs

14. FPN/Kennedy
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

The gaps are the long-term 'holes' as such i see prevalent in our side. With these into perspecitve i think there are 2 key signings we need to make; a strike winger with plenty of speed and a young prop to lead from the front.

In the winger stakes id be looking at micheal gordon from penrith and aku uate in particular. in terms of props id be looking at either tolman or sam rapira.

in the short-term, i think graham does his job as a stop gap in the centres so the only other thing i see scope for apart from the 2 signings above is in the experienced prop stakes. If ryles proves his worth in that role then he should be retained but other options aside from lima are josh perry and brent kite who can both do a pretty tidy job of leading from the front imo

So my side for next year would look something like this:
1. Perrett
2. Gordon
3. Graham
4. SKD/Williamson
5. Naughton/Moeakiola
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Tolman/Rapira
9. Jaubs
10. Kite/Perry
11. Maubs
12. Cherro
13. Myles

14. FPN/Kennedy/Conn
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

Its young and raw but it will develop well. Id also bring james tamou back from NQ for depth in the frontrow. Thoughts

roz, you have a great knowledge of our squad and our future possibilities, way better than me. I hope those guys work out, or at least some of them. But is it the case that we seem to be hoping about a different bunch of guys every couple of years? And on a different level, part of what I'm getting at is that buying guys like Kite and Perry and guys whose best days are a reasonably good chance of being behind them is not the go. Nor is buying players at the top of their value. An example of that would be Jennings. If he was up for contract at the end of this season, if he signs a long trerm deal, it'll be the highest per year money he'll be paid in the NRL. Jennings is brilliant of course, but over the long term that's not the time to buy a player. Need to buy them, or better still identify them, earlier.

[Guest]

roz, you have a great knowledge of our squad and our future possibilities, way better than me. I hope those guys work out, or at least some of them. But is it the case that we seem to be hoping about a different bunch of guys every couple of years? And on a different level, part of what I'm getting at is that buying guys like Kite and Perry and guys whose best days are a reasonably good chance of being behind them is not the go. Nor is buying players at the top of their value. An example of that would be Jennings. If he was up for contract at the end of this season, if he signs a long trerm deal, it'll be the highest per year money he'll be paid in the NRL. Jennings is brilliant of course, but over the long term that's not the time to buy a player. Need to buy them, or better still identify them, earlier.

all valid but the isue for us is that we need an experienced player in the frontrow who can lead from the front for a couple of years and then vacate in time for the new generation to come through and fill the void. see if we went out and bought both tolman and rapira then not only would our pack look a little inexperienced but the likes of cornder, kennedy, FPN etc may be lost elsewhere so we need the immediate experience up front and then for that player to vacate as the younger guys are hitting their straps.

Your point on the youngsters is fair enough but i think the chances of conversion are pretty high imo. Blair, SKD, WIlliamson, Du Plessis, Stanley, TOwers, Naughton, Moeakiola, Linnett are 8 players that only need to fill 3 spots in a backline. And we are not talking about 8 average lower graders we are talking about players who either have/are tearing it up in the lower grades or who have been touted for massive things, played heaps of junior rep footy and killed it so its not like we are talking about 8 average youngsters. All of them have plenty of potential in their own right so to answer your question, i think for 3 out of the 8 of them to become genuine strong first graders is probs not too big of an ask considering SKD is already in first grade and has proven on his day that he is well and truly up to it.

[Red.]

If you look back to our purple patch at the beginning of the decade we converted a lot of young guys into very good players.

Anthony Minichiello, Mick Crocker, Chris Flannery, Shannon Hegarty and Simon Bonetti to name a few.

Under Brian Smith's watch I have no doubt that the Roosters will produce a whole new batch of fabulous players to add to the likes of Pearce, Cherrington, Symonds, SKD, Aubusson and Friend.