The Bigger Picture

[Guest]

If you look back to our purple patch at the beginning of the decade we converted a lot of young guys into very good players.

Anthony Minichiello, Mick Crocker, Chris Flannery, Shannon Hegarty and Simon Bonetti to name a few.

Under Brian Smith's watch I have no doubt that the Roosters will produce a whole new batch of fabulous players to add to the likes of Pearce, Cherrington, Symonds, SKD, Aubusson and Friend.

that's a fair point, we did

can't agree with the bit about having no doubt that we'll produce a whole new batch of fabulous players though

Bonetti's out of place amongst those other names as well

[Red.]

can't agree with the bit about having no doubt that we'll produce a whole new batch of fabulous players though

What doubts do you have?

Bonetti's out of place amongst those other names as well

Why?

[Johnny Tobin]

Just finished watching the Raiders win

Got me thinking about a few things

Notwithstanding the fact that we're 3 from 5. which we'd all have taken, and that my hopes remain relatively high, it's interesting to compare us and them on some levels.

Firstly to the Raiders. What a nice side they have building.

What about their backs? Vidot, brilliant - superstar in the making, Duggan (sic?) likewise, Thompson, Croker - all very, very good

Campese. A bit like Braith, but just that bit better at, well, everything.

Then there's Shillo. The disbelievers on here will eat their words within 2 years. At 25yo he continues to improve. At 31 with Ryles, we just hope he stays semi-fit, then we just hope

The only spark we have is a bought player in Carney, that we were lucky to get. Can you imagine if we didn't have him? We'd be 0 from 5 or maybe 1 from 5. I leave Pearce out because as far as spark goes, although he's improving, he's 2 classes below Carney. Obviously no need to mention Braith here.

The players we look to at the moment are guys like Conn, Kouparitsas, Guerra, Graham, Ryles. Common denominator(s)?

We have Mini and Sam out wide. I believe Mini is close to finished, but if he is to be given the shot he deserves, he goes to fullback. Sam is a great trier, but lets face it, he's no Vidot. Sam's renowned for running from dummy half out of the defensive 20, Vidot for brilliant speed and scary attack. And Mini is no Duggan. Duggan is brilliant.

I love Mitch Aubusson. He's among our very best, no doubt. Maybe that's a worry though.

I don't love brother James. Not in the top 10 hookers in the comp.

Generally, we don't unearth players.

Canberra's biggest names made those names there.

Campese, Duggan, Tongue, Croker, Leahroyd Lars, Thompson, Vidot, all of them pretty much, except Logan (who still goes excellent, seems like 20 years ago he played here), Tilse, Shillo, and no doubt 1 or 2 others.

Braith? - made name elsewhere (same place he left leg at before coming here)

Carney? - used to play for the Raiders, believe it or not...

Pearce - yes, he did indeed make his name here. But he's the only one

We don't have any other stars

They'll be very hard to beat on Saturday the Raiders, and deserve clear favouritism.

Buzz, we like your posts because you know a lot about the game and they are insightful - but please stop treating us like idiots by pretending you are a Roosters fan.

[Johnny Tobin]

A little deeper.
Look at alot of those kids for Canberra. They came from a sensational NYC team that won the comp 2 years ago. That might imply a bit or discipline and a decent attitude.

A little deeper still.

What happened to all the players from our record breaking 2004 Jersey Flegg team?

Bad coaching and structures is the answer. They could have set up a dynasty if they played their cards right.

[Guest]

roz, you have a great knowledge of our squad and our future possibilities, way better than me. I hope those guys work out, or at least some of them. But is it the case that we seem to be hoping about a different bunch of guys every couple of years? And on a different level, part of what I'm getting at is that buying guys like Kite and Perry and guys whose best days are a reasonably good chance of being behind them is not the go. Nor is buying players at the top of their value. An example of that would be Jennings. If he was up for contract at the end of this season, if he signs a long trerm deal, it'll be the highest per year money he'll be paid in the NRL. Jennings is brilliant of course, but over the long term that's not the time to buy a player. Need to buy them, or better still identify them, earlier.

I don't agree with you very often. But that was a cracker post. Spot on mate.

[Guest]

A little deeper still.

What happened to all the players from our record breaking 2004 Jersey Flegg team?

Bad coaching and structures is the answer. They could have set up a dynasty if they played their cards right.

Might I add that a fair few of those players were individually somewhat average. They just happened to be a very good team as a whole.

As opposed to the 2008 NYC Raiders team, who had a truckload of individual talents like Josh Dugan, Justin Carney, Jarrod Croker, Joel Thompson, Shaun Fensom, Daniel Vidot and Travis Waddell, who when fit are all key players in a full strength Canberra Raiders first grade team.

[Johnny Tobin]

Might I add that a fair few of those players were individually somewhat average. They just happened to be a very good team as a whole.

As opposed to the 2008 NYC Raiders team, who had a truckload of individual talents like Josh Dugan, Justin Carney, Jarrod Croker, Joel Thompson, Shaun Fensom, Daniel Vidot and Travis Waddell, who when fit are all key players in a full strength Canberra Raiders first grade team.

They just weren't brought on properly.

Surely that team was not 100% Soward.

[Vasco]

They just weren't brought on properly.

Surely that team was not 100% Soward.

It coincided with Gould standing down as coaching co-ordinator.

He spent a decade re-building the club and it took a year or two to crumble once he left.

Smith has 4 years to do the same with the club. Under 16s through to first grade. Early signs in the junior grades suggest we are headed in the right direction.

[Guest]

I think we need to identify the long-term prospects nice and early, and work on them from the get-go:

FP Nuuausala
Anthony Cherrington
Shaun Kenny-Dowall
Sam Perrett
Mitchell Pearce
Mitchell Aubusson
Tom Symonds
Ben Jones
Todd Carney
Nate Myles
Jared Waerea-Hargreaves

...and youngsters:

Boyd Cordner
Joseph Leilua
Ethan Lowe
Cheyse Blair
JP Du Plessis
Ryan Williamson
Jacob Miller

After this, we must look at the question mark players (Conn, Guerra, Kouparitsas, Aubusson, Towers, Baitieri, Takairangi, Linnett, Naughton, Foran, Ford, Arona, Kennedy, Friend) and use this season to identify who can be viewed as long term prospects too, and release those without any perceivable future at our club.

[Kingbilly]

A little deeper still.

What happened to all the players from our record breaking 2004 Jersey Flegg team?

Bad coaching and structures is the answer. They could have set up a dynasty if they played their cards right.

Very true stuff.
Different year but an interesting story. A kid that played lower grades with the Roosters, same age and similar ability to Pearce, threw a great cutout ball to SKD and he went over for a try. The coach sent a trainer out to tell the kid, "do that again and your off, thats not in the game plan"

What does that tell you.

On the other side of the coin, Stuart had the vision to try and set up structures consistent through U13s Development right up to NRL. Unfortunately it seems he didn't have the ability to put it in place properly.

Over the last few years there have been a few "jobs for the boys" scenarios and some extremely poor management.
Smith and Noyce have much better philiosophies and attitudes. Things have changed dramatically with junior development and for the better I will add.
It might take some time, but I honestly believe the combination of SMith and Noyce will take this club to better places. As will O'sullivan if he just changes his attitude a little.

[Guest]

Great thread TOK. you cop plenty of stick on here (heralded or not) but you make some strong points. My take on our side:

Here is the side that we have that i see developing:
1. Perrett
2.
3. Blair/Du Plessis/Linnett
4. Williamson/SKD
5. Moeakiola/Naughton
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Myles
9. Jaubs
10.
11. Leilua/Cherrington
12. Cordner
13. Maubs

14. FPN/Kennedy
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

The gaps are the long-term 'holes' as such i see prevalent in our side. With these into perspecitve i think there are 2 key signings we need to make; a strike winger with plenty of speed and a young prop to lead from the front.

In the winger stakes id be looking at micheal gordon from penrith and aku uate in particular. in terms of props id be looking at either tolman or sam rapira.

in the short-term, i think graham does his job as a stop gap in the centres so the only other thing i see scope for apart from the 2 signings above is in the experienced prop stakes. If ryles proves his worth in that role then he should be retained but other options aside from lima are josh perry and brent kite who can both do a pretty tidy job of leading from the front imo

So my side for next year would look something like this:
1. Perrett
2. Gordon
3. Graham
4. SKD/Williamson
5. Naughton/Moeakiola
6. Carney
7. Pearce
8. Tolman/Rapira
9. Jaubs
10. Kite/Perry
11. Maubs
12. Cherro
13. Myles

14. FPN/Kennedy/Conn
15. JWH
16. Symonds
17. Friend

Its young and raw but it will develop well. Id also bring james tamou back from NQ for depth in the frontrow. Thoughts

I agree with your point about recruiting a prop with experience who will lead the pack. I feel Jason Ryles was recruited to add experience and to mentor our younger players but his form hasn't been all that flash. Having said that, a player like Aiden Tolman certainly wouldn't hurt as he is an Origin player in the making and will be a representative in the near future.

Phil Graham is doing a fantastic job in the centres and has proven to be an astute buy. He has definitely exceeded my expectations and probably most of the fans expectations. I'm sure he would be passing on valuable tips to the younger outside backs in Cheyse Blair, BJ Leilua and JP du Plessis. At this stage, BJ Leilua or Kane Linnett will probably be the next young player to debut but having watched the NYC this year, if Ethan Lowe, Sam Brunton and Fine Moeakiola keep up their current form, they will get their chance. Cheyse Blair is probably a year or two away from playing NRL football IMO. Ryan Williamson has been average but he showed promising signs on the weekend. If he can show that on a consistent basis, he too will debut very soon.

My side for next year would be looking like:

1. Krisnan Inu
2. Sam Perrett
3. Phil Graham
4. Shaun Kenny-Dowall
5. Fine Moeakiola
6. Todd Carney
7. Mitchell Pearce
8. Aiden Tolman
9. Jake Friend
10. Jared Wearea-Hargreaves
11. Tom Symonds
12. Mitch Aubusson
13. Nate Myles (c)

14. Jason Ryles
15. Frank Paul-Nuusuala
16. Anthony Cherrington
17. James Aubusson

It looks like a good team to me. BJ Leilua would be close to making the side but I think Shaun Kenny-Dowall has showed some good form this year and deserves to play in the centres IMO. If his form dips, substitute him with either BJ Leilua or Kane Linnett.

[Guest]

roz, you have a great knowledge of our squad and our future possibilities, way better than me. I hope those guys work out, or at least some of them. But is it the case that we seem to be hoping about a different bunch of guys every couple of years? And on a different level, part of what I'm getting at is that buying guys like Kite and Perry and guys whose best days are a reasonably good chance of being behind them is not the go. Nor is buying players at the top of their value. An example of that would be Jennings. If he was up for contract at the end of this season, if he signs a long trerm deal, it'll be the highest per year money he'll be paid in the NRL. Jennings is brilliant of course, but over the long term that's not the time to buy a player. Need to buy them, or better still identify them, earlier.

I agree with your point on identifying talent. I think Kane Linnett is a perfect example of that. He has been identified as somebody we could possibly develop into a very good NRL player and he has been living up to expectations and IMO it is only a matter of time before he starts playing NRL football. It wouldn't hurt though to buy Krisnan Inu for the right price. He could turn out to be a great buy, much like Phil Graham this year. But I'd love to see him play fullback. He played there in the juniors and was very impressive but Jarryd Hayne obviously occupies that spot at Parramatta.