Penalty counts

[redwhiteandbluester]

There has been lots of discussion about refereeing in here recently, for obvious reasons.

There are lots of stats thrown about - penalty differential is a common one, which illustrates that we have conceded around 100 penalties more than we have been awarded over the last three years. A predictable counter argument is that maybe the Roosters have poor discipline, and although I don't believe this is necessarily true, it is impossible to prove either way.

The only statistic that proves whether or not the Roosters get a raw deal from the referees is total penalties awarded. The amount of penalties the Chooks get given has absolutely nothing to do with their own discipline, and on balance, every single side in the competition should have roughly the same amount of penalties awarded to them over the course of the season. Penalties conceded varies between teams (different teams have different levels of discipline), but in an unbiased competition, penalties awarded should not vary significantly.

The number of penalties awarded to the Roosters has absolutely nothing to do with the discipline of the Roosters; it has everything to do with the referees, and who they chose to give penalties to. Statistically, every club's 'penalties for' statistic should be almost identical if the refereeing is fair.

Have a look at the official stats for penalties awarded at the NRL site (select 'all rounds' and highlight the 'PenF' tab). This means that the Roosters have only been awarded 75 penalties all year, the lowest number of any team, and a whopping 42 short of Cronulla's 117. It is significantly short of the average number of penalties awarded, which is 93 (i.e. this is the number of penalties that every single team in the comp deserves to be awarded).

The statistics prove, unequivocally, that the referees are biased against the Roosters. For whatever reason, we do not get awarded as many penalties as we are entitled to.

[Guest]

of course penalties awarded to teams are going to be different, different styles of play will draw different penalties, if a team is dominating another team they will likely get more penalties with the other team trying to do whatever they can to slow a team down or get any other advantage they can

im not saying we are or are not unfairly penalised but its just plain silly to think every team will have the same amount or penalties at the end of the year

[redwhiteandbluester]

of course penalties awarded to teams are going to be different, different styles of play will draw different penalties, if a team is dominating another team they will likely get more penalties with the other team trying to do whatever they can to slow a team down or get any other advantage they can

im not saying we are or are not unfairly penalised but its just plain silly to think every team will have the same amount or penalties at the end of the year

No it's not silly at all. If penalties are awarded to the sides that dominate, then why is Cronulla at the top of the list?

Penalties awarded generally reflect the discipline of the opposition. It is plain silly to think that sides magically improve their discipline when they play the Roosters.

[Guest]

i said styles of play also, maybe their forward pack of snowden, douglas, ggallen, and the like look for quick play the balls unlike our boys

[redwhiteandbluester]

I don't think variations to styles of play accounts for such an extravagant disparity in the number of penalties given.

Typically, every team's figure should be extremely close to the average. That is, of course, in a competition where the referees are unbiased.

[Guest]

RWBluester it must be every team are really disciplined against chooks :s that would be finchs explanation in fact he would just not give us a answer on that one

[Guest]

Our style of play is one of the more exciting in the NRL. We play quick ball and throw it sideline to sideline with our creative halves.

I have trouble believing that kind of football is the one that gets penalised the most and receive the least.

[BUDDY]

I think there is a logical reason why we cop it from the refs.

We are the most hated team in the comp. People who don't support us, hate us.

Unfortunately, referees are people. I can't believe that they can be neutral. There must be some element of hate as per the rest of the rugby league supporters.

The sooner Diamond gets to first grade, the sooner we may finally have a chance at getting a neutral referee.

[Guest]

In all honesty in past years we havent held onto the ball long enough to earn a bloody penalty, when you have a completion rate as bad as ours has been and with the tackle counts we have been making, is it any wonder the penalties are so lopsided.

I agree this year, well the last half dozen games, the bias and stupidity of some of the penalties is showing alot more

[Guest]

I think there is a logical reason why we cop it from the refs.

We are the most hated team in the comp. People who don't support us, hate us.

Unfortunately, referees are people. I can't believe that they can be neutral. There must be some element of hate as per the rest of the rugby league supporters.

The sooner Diamond gets to first grade, the sooner we may finally have a chance at getting a neutral referee.

Great. Being hated ensures higher ratings.

Builds an us vs them mentality that has worked quite well for Manly.

[redwhiteandbluester]

In all honesty in past years we havent held onto the ball long enough to earn a bloody penalty, when you have a completion rate as bad as ours has been and with the tackle counts we have been making, is it any wonder the penalties are so lopsided.

I thought that could be true, but Cronulla top the list of penalties awarded by miles, and they complete fewer sets than anyone.

Maybe if we can become a basket case, the refs might take pity on us? It didn't work last year

[Guest]

Is your team paying the penalty?

Stats Insider NRL.com Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:18:00

Do your OWN analysis on Game Analyser Penalties hurting your Dream Team? Will your team make the finals? The other week a mate of mine named Mitch was standing on the Brookvale Oval hill, as he often does when watching the Sea Eagles go around, enjoying a cold drink and the company of a few long-time friends.

This group of “lads” have been trotting out to Manly games for as long as they can remember, dating back even to when Bob Fulton was scorching the turf! Anyway, they got to talking. It was after the shrill of the whistle went against an Eagle, again, for a high tackle.

“We’d have to be penalised more for high tackles than any other club,” Mitch said while throwing his Big League program to the ground in disgust.

“I reckon you’re right Mitch,” said another of the group, Pete. “They hate us, those refs!”

“Come off it you two,” a third, Bart, chimed in. “The Sharkies are the team getting back-pedalled for high shots; it happens all the time. Bet you a case of beer on it…”

As these old wood ducks went at each other I got to thinking… who gets penalised for what, what effect does it have, and what conclusions can be made from these stats?

We often see the basic numbers when it comes to penalties conceded – and yes, it is Manly who are getting caned the most with 106 for the season, closely followed by the Knights (105), the Panthers (105), the Warriors (104), Eels (101) and the Sharks (100). At the other end of the scale the Broncos are “cleanskins” with just 75. But we don’t often hear the breakdown for what these penalties are for.

And guess what Mitch? You were right – and Bart owes you that case. The Sea Eagles have been penalised a staggering 19 times for high shots this season, more than one a match, making them the ‘head hunters’ of the NRL.

High tackle penalties are the third most common in the game this year, with 158 blown.

Newcastle comes next on the bad boys list with 15, and the Sharks (sorry Bart) third after registering 13.

Well done to the Wests Tigers – either they love tackling low or they have a good way to slip past the ref’s ire, with just five high tackle penalties all year.

Now, it is hard to use a team’s tendency for high shots to your advantage – but don’t be surprised if you see the odd bit of play-acting if an opponent thinks they’ve been hit high-ish when playing the Sea Eagles or Knights in coming weeks. They know the referees are aware of the problems and might try to ‘milk’ the issue.

But what about the other penalty categories? The most common penalty in the game is for holding down, for which there have been 247 dished out. The Wests Tigers might stay off the head, but they also stay on the man too long, leading the way in conceding 25 penalties for holding down.

The Sea Eagles are once again up amongst the problem children, conceding 24 penalties.

The Broncos are at the low end with just eight and the Sharks and Rabbitohs are very good also with just nine.

The lesson to learn here may be to fight hard to get up when playing the Wests Tigers or Eagles. They seem to push the issue and if you fight hard opponents might just get a decision to go their way.

The second most prevalent penalty is for offside – and it is the two top sides that are soaring off their defensive lines too early. The Panthers have been pinged 21 times, the Dragons 17 as they try to intimidate with their defenders coming forward. (Meanwhile, the Titans must be very fit as they have only been offside six times this year – an incredible effort.)

Next: markers not being square. In this category South Sydney are struggling, giving up 15 penalties, while the Knights aren’t much better with 12.

This is a pointer to slower ruck defenders and shows a weakness in the armour. To get at the Bunnies or Knights, the trick might well be to make their forwards make effort-on-effort to catch them on the hop.
As for strips, seaside rivals Manly and Cronulla steal the ball more than anyone else – the Sea Eagles have been done 12 times in 2010, the Sharks 11. Keep a good grip when playing them… or maybe don’t, as a decision might go your way.

When it comes to hands on the ball as a team tries to play it – well the Knights love the tactic but pay the price with 13 penalties conceded, as do the Dragons (11 conceded), Titans and Cowboys (10 each).

Other category ‘leaders’ include:
Back Chat: Warriors (four)
Dangerous Throw/Tackle: Knights & Rabbitohs (five). (The Bulldogs have none and deserve some praise.)
Dragged when tackled: Storm (three)
Holding Back (defence): Broncos, Dragons & Sharks (five)
Late Tackle: Warriors (eight)
Mid-air Tackle: Eels (three)
Striking: Eels (four)
Flop: Broncos & Rabbitohs (four)
Leg Pull: Panthers (five)
Grapple Tackle: Sharks (four)
Second-effort after held: Sharks (10)
Lying in the ruck: Titans, Storm, Panthers & Eels (four)
Obstruction (attack): Rabbitohs (six)
Downtown: Storm & Panthers (two)

With NRL games getting tighter and tighter and penalties potentially being the deciding factor, it is time for sides to realise where they are struggling and fix it – otherwise the old boys on the hill will still be debating refs instead of trying to rank the best tries they have ever seen (one for another day!).

We are not mentioned to much in this article.

[redwhiteandbluester]

Good article. That shows we're not ill-disciplined, rather, we're just not getting awarded enough penalties and that's why we never win the count.

[Spirit of 66]

Good article. That shows we're not ill-disciplined, rather, we're just not getting awarded enough penalties and that's why we never win the count.

Yes - the Roosters have a miraculous effect on other teams. Even the most ill-disciplined rabbles stop giving away penalties when they play us... or at least that's what the refs think.